England has gems like Buttler & Bairstow as wicketkeepers whereas we are stuck with 40 year old Dhoni

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, putrevus said:

After CT 2017 India kept winning most series, I think only England series and latest Australian series were only losses. Bowling covered for most deficiencies.That coupled with lack of batting talent in domestic cricket and Kohli's unwillingness to try youngsters has led to this debacle.

 

After seeing England score 358 without even breaking a sweat and without their most potent finisher, India is so far behind in actual talent.

 

Yes Bairstow and Butlers are no spring chickens but the batting surplus England has is ridicolous.Where are our domestic players who have been playing in IPL for 4 or 5 seasons who are capable of hitting 50 ball 100s??? or 25 ball fifties.

 

Don't include Pant and Pandya, they are already there.Some people are arguing it is the mindset of top three. I don't think India has won any match by either scoring 300 plus when batting first or chasing 300 plus when they lose early wickets.

How many England have other than these two? These guys are playing for last 7 years in international cricket. They aren't rookies. You can't expect rookies to do that.

[putrevus]

1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

How many England have other than these two? These guys are playing for last 7 years in international cricket. They aren't rookies. You can't expect rookies to do that.

What are we expecting rookies to do ? Who is that rookie we are expecting to do.Is Pandya or Pant a rookie. Show me talented rookie who is at the same class as Bulter or Bairstow.

 

Were Kuldeep and Chahal not rookies when they started to perform????Chahal played in IPL for few seasons, I am not seeing that same talent even in IPL when it comes to batsmen.

England has Jason Roy, Alex Hales, Stokes and they have very good no4 in Morgan. All their bowlers can bat  that is their strength.

 

What do we have none of bowler can bat, we don't have single 100 from no4 and down.Yes Rahul should have been given chances but after seeing Rahul struggle in tests, he is still unknown.

[Vilander]

I think Kohli sucks in captaining and loves his captain Dhoni and emotionally backs him.  Wish Rohit was captain and Kohli was a happy premier bat then Dhoni would have been encouraged to retire or become coaching staff etc if his game plan skill is needed. Dhoni is not as international bat may be he finds some form against a few sides and chips in against Aus/ Eng hopefully other bats fire in decider games.

[rkt.india]

9 hours ago, putrevus said:

What are we expecting rookies to do ? Who is that rookie we are expecting to do.Is Pandya or Pant a rookie. Show me talented rookie who is at the same class as Bulter or Bairstow.

 

Were Kuldeep and Chahal not rookies when they started to perform????Chahal played in IPL for few seasons, I am not seeing that same talent even in IPL when it comes to batsmen.

England has Jason Roy, Alex Hales, Stokes and they have very good no4 in Morgan. All their bowlers can bat  that is their strength.

 

What do we have none of bowler can bat, we don't have single 100 from no4 and down.Yes Rahul should have been given chances but after seeing Rahul struggle in tests, he is still unknown.

Pant is a rookie? has barely played 4-5 ODIs.  Debuted just last year.  How can a rookie be same class as Butler and Bairstaw?  Even they were not the same class as they are now when they were rookies.  They are seasoned cricketers.  You cant expect rookies to play like seasoned cricketers.  Pandya and Pant are as good a hitters of the ball as Butler and Bairstaw. Pandya had the second highest SR in IPL more than Butler and Bairstaw.

[putrevus]

6 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Pant is a rookie? has barely played 4-5 ODIs.  Debuted just last year.  How can a rookie be same class as Butler and Bairstaw?  Even they were not the same class as they are now when they were rookies.  They are seasoned cricketers.  You cant expect rookies to play like seasoned cricketers.  Pandya and Pant are as good a hitters of the ball as Butler and Bairstaw. Pandya had the second highest SR in IPL more than Butler and Bairstaw.

Don't bring Pant up , we know Pant should be there in the team. are you kidding me Pandya is as good hitter as Butler? He is not even patch on Butler.Let him score an odi 100 first.Scoring 150 at SR of 200 and scoring 30 at SR of 220 is not same.If Pandya is as good as Buter India has nothing to worry about.

 

We are talking about batting talent? 

[Real McCoy]

Pappu Patel is a better option than Dhoni for OP @velu

[velu]

19 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

Pappu Patel is a better option than Dhoni for OP @velu

 

@SecondSlip i didnt post this  

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

Don't bring Pant up , we know Pant should be there in the team. are you kidding me Pandya is as good hitter as Butler? He is not even patch on Butler.Let him score an odi 100 first.Scoring 150 at SR of 200 and scoring 30 at SR of 220 is not same.If Pandya is as good as Buter India has nothing to worry about.

 

We are talking about batting talent? 

how many batsmen have 100s at #7 in ODIs?  when has butler scored 150 at an SR of 200?  Pandya recently scored 91 of 34 balls in IPL over 200 SR.  Butler and pandya's SR are not even close in IPL.  Pandya averaged 44 with an SR of 191, Butler 38 with an SR of 151.

[sandeep]

12 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

how many batsmen have 100s at #7 in ODIs?  when has butler scored 150 at an SR of 200?  Pandya recently scored 91 of 34 balls in IPL over 200 SR.  Butler and pandya's SR are not even close in IPL.  Pandya averaged 44 with an SR of 191, Butler 38 with an SR of 151.

@putrevus  Pandya may not be "as good as" Buttler.  But he has definitely gotten fewer opportunities than Ben Stokes with the bat in ODIs.   He may not be able to succeed in playing longer innings.  But then again, he just might.  It was in the team's best interests to give him ample chances and find out just what the limits are on his batting potential.  We haven't done that, when we easily could have.  

[putrevus]

[mention=486]putrevus[/mention]  Pandya may not be "as good as" Buttler.  But he has definitely gotten fewer opportunities than Ben Stokes with the bat in ODIs.   He may not be able to succeed in playing longer innings.  But then again, he just might.  It was in the team's best interests to give him ample chances and find out just what the limits are on his batting potential.  We haven't done that, when we easily could have.  

Team management didn’t ask him to miss Odi series by going on TV show. Butter performed so well that it forced their TM to use him as an opener in t20s and now trying to find him a position where he can make more impact.

I always believe it is up-to players to force TM to give them more chances. Bumrah was so good in t20s and Odis that he forced team to make him a test bowler.

I have not seen anything like it from Pandya . He was given ample chances.

He is not even in same ball park in ability as Butler. To think he is foolishness.


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[putrevus]

how many batsmen have 100s at #7 in ODIs?  when has butler scored 150 at an SR of 200?  Pandya recently scored 91 of 34 balls in IPL over 200 SR.  Butler and pandya's SR are not even close in IPL.  Pandya averaged 44 with an SR of 191, Butler 38 with an SR of 151.

Yosuf Pathan scored IPL 100 in 34 balls. Does it matter. It is Pandya’s fault that he has not given TM both at IPL and India a reason to bat him higher.

If you think Pandya is on par as a batsman as Butler then India has nothing to worry about it’s middle order.


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[rkt.india]

34 minutes ago, putrevus said:

 

Team management didn’t ask him to miss Odi series by going on TV show. Butter performed so well that it forced their TM to use him as an opener in t20s and now trying to find him a position where he can make more impact.

I always believe it is up-to players to force TM to give them more chances. Bumrah was so good in t20s and Odis that he forced team to make him a test bowler.

I have not seen anything like it from Pandya . He was given ample chances.

He is not even in same ball park in ability as Butler. To think he is foolishness.


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compare their IPL stats this season and it will tell your whether he is close to Butler or not.  While Butler made use of PP. 

[rkt.india]

Just now, putrevus said:

Yosuf Pathan scored IPL 100 in 34 balls. Does it matter. It is Pandya’s fault that he has not given TM both at IPL and India a reason to bat him higher.

If you think Pandya is on par as a batsman as Butler then India has nothing to worry about it’s middle order.


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Pandya has a role in his IPL team which he has played to perfection.  he is the biggest reason MI won this IPL.  Regarding Indian team, he did bat in top order and became MOS against Aus with two match winning knocks in those innings, now blame TM to not persist with him for a longer period.  The biggest reason is we didnt have anyone lower down the order so he had to bat in the lower order.

 

Regarding bolder part, Pandya bats at 7, which is not an ideal batting position to make any impact expect a few 10-20 ball cameos.  batting #7, he is not going make much of a difference in this team as most times top 3 plays most of the overs.  Also England also has like of Morgan and Stokes in the middle order.  They are not dependent on just one player.  No team depending on just one player can win big tournys.

[putrevus]

compare their IPL stats this season and it will tell your whether he is close to Butler or not.  While Butler made use of PP. 

When Pandya scores 100s in Odis we will compare their IPL SRs.Russel has higher SR than Pandya does it make him better than Butler? Swinging for fences for 10 or 15 balls is different from scoring an Odi 100 .


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[vvvslaxman]

I don't think Shankar is a natural big hitter. Only after Nidahas trophy he started practicing big hits.  streetwise can go either way. He can score a 50 or so playing these little dinky shots or perish in the first over he faces.  Jadhav's only biggest plus his side spin has the ability to nick out a few wickets. Jadhav's role should be compared with Yuvraj's role in 2011 world cup. Part time spin, batting at 7.  In terms of hitting, being a match winner Jadhav is not that good. Even in terms of part time spin he is not that good. Also with fielding Yuvraj was always a better fielder before age caught him on. Basically poor man's Yuvraj.  It is hard to pick between the two. I gotta go with Jadhav due to his experience.

[maniac]

23 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Pandya has a role in his IPL team which he has played to perfection.  he is the biggest reason MI won this IPL.  Regarding Indian team, he did bat in top order and became MOS against Aus with two match winning knocks in those innings, now blame TM to not persist with him for a longer period.  The biggest reason is we didnt have anyone lower down the order so he had to bat in the lower order.

 

Regarding bolder part, Pandya bats at 7, which is not an ideal batting position to make any impact expect a few 10-20 ball cameos.  batting #7, he is not going make much of a difference in this team as most times top 3 plays most of the overs.  Also England also has like of Morgan and Stokes in the middle order.  They are not dependent on just one player.  No team depending on just one player can win big tournys.

Pandya looks like a legend for us because there is none even close to him in India at the moment.

 

Put him among the England allrounders Stokes,Woakes,Archer, Curran bros,M Ali etc he doesn’t look that special anymore.

 

We would take someone like Stokes with both hands he would solve both our no.4 problem and bowl a few overs.

 

Woakes is a way better bowler than Pandya and can bat as good.

 

Same goes for Archer.

 

Maybe in T20 you have a point there Pandya might get a nod ahead of others.

 

As far as butler goes he has 4-5 of the fastest odi 100s in the top 10. Are you serious saying Pandya is better?

[Ankit_sharma03]

5 minutes ago, maniac said:

Pandya looks like a legend for us because there is none even close to him in India at the moment.

 

Put him among the England allrounders Stokes,Woakes,Archer, Curran bros,M Ali etc he doesn’t look that special anymore.

all do diff roles

Pandya is a better hitter then every name u mentioned above

Stokes is a much better batsmn

rest are much better bowlers 

Pandya is a specialist power hitter......

Quote

 

We would take someone like Stokes with both hands he would solve both our no.4 problem and bowl a few overs.

Still team will have pandya as power hitter, coz u need that at 7

Quote

 

Woakes is a way better bowler than Pandya and can bat as good.

Pandya doesnt play as a main bowler , he plays as 5th bowler 

Quote

 

Same goes for Archer.

Archer cant play as specialist batsman just like pandya cant play as bowler which archer can 

 

All are wrong comparisons as it shud be more with players who do same role like . 

 

Woakes,Archer, Curran bros,M Ali are bowlers who can bat, pandya is a power hitter and can alone play in team with that quality....bowling at pace, fieling is huge bonus he gives us

 

Edited May 16, 2019 by Ankit_sharma03

[zen]

16 minutes ago, maniac said:

Pandya looks like a legend for us because there is none even close to him in India at the moment.

Teams pick players based on what is available to them. If he is the best in business in Ind and makes the team competitive, we should be happy 

 

Because of his power hitting skills and continuous improvements, he is potentially the 2nd most important wkt for Ind after Kohli! Add his fielding, which is also among the best! 

 

Edited May 16, 2019 by zen

[Ankit_sharma03]

28 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

I don't think Shankar is a natural big hitter. Only after Nidahas trophy he started practicing big hits.  streetwise can go either way. He can score a 50 or so playing these little dinky shots or perish in the first over he faces.  Jadhav's only biggest plus his side spin has the ability to nick out a few wickets. Jadhav's role should be compared with Yuvraj's role in 2011 world cup. Part time spin, batting at 7.  In terms of hitting, being a match winner Jadhav is not that good. Even in terms of part time spin he is not that good. Also with fielding Yuvraj was always a better fielder before age caught him on. Basically poor man's Yuvraj.  It is hard to pick between the two. I gotta go with Jadhav due to his experience.

Shankar can bat till 100 s/r for most part of innings and can hit a few in the end to take his s/r above....pretty much what kohli does (not comparing two before some idiot jumps to that conclusion). We are just in t20 hangover as in t20 if u get 10-12 runs in an over during later stages its considered ok but in ODI thats damn good and shankar can do that 

 

Jadhav role cant be compare to yuvi- as yuvi played as 5th bowler not part time bowler.....his role is more close to what raina did. 5th bowler bowls a lot of overs. Jadhav abilities are not even 10% of what yuvi had with bat 

 

[sandeep]

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

I always believe it is up-to players to force TM to give them more chances.

Sorry for being blunt - but this statement is like being foolish and announcing that you are proud of it.  who forced TM to give Rohit Sharma chance to open in ODIs?  Did the team benefit from that?  

 

How exactly did Kedar Jadhav "force TM" to give him opportunity to bowl in ODI cricket?  Did the team benefit from that?  

 

Not all players are like Sachin or Bumrah.   Its in the interest of the team to maximize the production they get from players.  That's their goddamn job.  To sit back and claim that its up to the player to "force TM" is total bakwaas.