40/0 after ten should be the target in all games.

[putrevus]

35 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

NZ opening bowlers are boult and henry and on patta like yesterday they wud have been taken for runs. Against NZ on a patta they can easily aim for around 60/0 and we are good against pace so if any 2 among top 3 is set ferguson wnt trouble much 

There should be no set target period, they all are very experienced players.The only thing important is  one of them to be there till the end like Kohli did yesterday and Rohit did on first match. Rest of things will fall in place if they do that consistently.

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 minute ago, putrevus said:

There should be no set target period, they all are very experienced players.The only thing important is  one of them to be there till the end like Kohli did yesterday and Rohit did on first match. Rest of things will fall in place if they do that consistently.

yup one of them shud bat till the end coz then chances are high we can reach 350......otherwise 350 is very difficult 

[vice]

India's first 10 over against Australia could've been higher actually.  The Australian fielding was exceptional as they saved quite a few boundaries especially in the first 5 overs or so.

[zen]

No one can plan to bat till the end! Like Dhawan and Kohli showed, you have to play normal cricket. And if you play well, you will not get out 

 

As for Rohit. He has a first chance average of only 2.5. So if he is not getting chances, he may not survive even if he blocks all the balls.  The inning vs Aus went nowhere in the end. If Kohli had come in early, who knows he could have got a 100 too 

 

Therefore, Rohit needs to play positively to put bad balls away while negotiating with good balls cautiously, along with rotating the strike

Edited June 10, 2019 by zen

[vvvslaxman]

31 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

Yeah, but the game doesn't work that way. Imagine 40 for no loss and 50 for 3 in 13 overs and now when tuk taking starts, we will be int eal trouble 

 

Now say 70 for no loss in 10 and if we lose 3 quick wickets, being 80 for 3 at the start of tuk tut is better than 45 for 3, and it will only help. 

 

I say, be watchful but don't strategize batting slow too much as not every line up has a weak 3rd and 4th bowler. Why not just play to the merit of the ball. Keep rotating if you can't find boundaries. thats the best strategy. 

70/3 45/3 both are bad. Not sure what that 25 extra runs will  do to you.  If India weathers the storm early on, they rarely get into a scenario like  losing all 3 batsmen.  If top 2 has survived first 10 overs it means it is more likely to be a decent batting surface. Only time we collapse at the top is when the ball is jagging around a bit.  Only problem is rotation of strike. But despite so many years of playing together they are still susceptible to run outs like Gambhir/Sehwag. Dhawan when in touch he usually attacks the bowling.

[rkt.india]

4 hours ago, G_B_ said:

I think it depends on the quality of the bowlers more than anything. A lot of good sides have good bowlers upfront.

 

I think its prudent to put away bad balls if batting first. 

 

I think its prudent for a bit mot impetus if chasing a score more than 320.

It all depends on conditions, not the bowling attack

[Cricketics]

31 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

70/3 45/3 both are bad. Not sure what that 25 extra runs will  do to you.  If India weathers the storm early on, they rarely get into a scenario like  losing all 3 batsmen.  If top 2 has survived first 10 overs it means it is more likely to be a decent batting surface. Only time we collapse at the top is when the ball is jagging around a bit.  Only problem is rotation of strike. But despite so many years of playing together they are still susceptible to run outs like Gambhir/Sehwag. Dhawan when in touch he usually attacks the bowling.

Rohit has said after his century in the first game, and Dhawan said similar yesterday that sometimes they have to bat and respect the opposition bowlers. That "sometimes" is important because they understand that they like attack but just for this particular game, they were little watch full. Yes, in essence, your theory is decent that if we don't lose wickets in first 10, it can be helpful, but don't think players feel comfortable every time batting slow. They have a higher chance of putting pressure on themselves against okays bowling on a placid track if the run rate is low. Yesterday was different because they knew they had to respect the best of Cummins and Starc, but down the line they won't look to do the same I believe. 

 

Its good though if we save the wickets. Because I am sure Rohit especially would love to play spinners before perishing away early. 

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, Cricketics said:

Rohit has said after his century in the first game, and Drawn said similar yesterday that sometimes they have to bat and respect the opposition bowlers. That "sometimes" is important because they understand that they like attack but just for this particular game, they were little watch full. Yes, in essence, your theory is decent that if we don't lose wickets in first 10, it can be helpful, but don't think players feel comfortable every time batting slow. They have a higher chance of putting pressure on them against okays bowling on a placid track if the run rate is low. Yesterday was different because they knew they had to respect the best of Cummins and Starc, but down the line they won't look to do the same I believe. 

 

Its good though if we save the wickets. Because I am sure Rohit especially would love to play spinners before perishing away early. 

One reason i don't mind Rohit taking time is he can explode after 30 overs. He is one reason teams cannot intimidate us with short balls. Also Dhawan is not a 150 guy. He is more a 125 guy at best. Rohit has seven 150s in his career more than anybody ever. He has many 130 plus as well. He is a guy who can take the game deep and even win single handedly. He almost did that in Australia recently. Only he and Kohli have the ability to bat deep and win on their own. Not even Dhawan can do that.  The game against Australia was the perfect example. Wickets in hand. Promotion of Pandya in the last 10 and big finish. 116 in the last 10 overs. If we have Kuldeep and Jadhav in the last 10 we will go from 250 in 40 overs to 300 in 50 overs. INdia should put themselves in the best possible position to finish big.  Losing early wicket going after good bowlers means we will be rebuilding for 40 overs and finishing with a wimp. We have 4 tailenders. We don't have coulternile, morris, woakes coming down the order.

[putrevus]

India has to do what works for them and not worry how other teams are doing in power play.If Dhawan stays he is bound to get runs at good pace , Kohli never wastes any deliveries.Rohit is the only guy who is slow and if he gets out after consuming lot of deliveries he will put the team in a spot of bother.You just hope he makes up with a big score next match.

 

People are questioning how Warner played his innings yesterday, those guys need to understand , Indian bowlers are also getting paid and they are very good too at their jobs.Chasing 350 you need to have perfect start or dream finish like Mohali with Turner for Australia.Both of them don't happen very often thats why those are called special.

Edited June 10, 2019 by putrevus

[Norman]

No. 

 

40/0 should not be the target in all games. 

 

Against Starc and Cummins, it's all right. 

May be against Boult and Henry as well. 

But against every other team we must target atleast 60/0 after 10 unless it's a green mamba. 

 

As someone mentioned above, every team will not have NCN, Stoinis, Zampa and Maxwell bowling 30 overs. In fact Australia have the worst 3rd , 4th and 5th bowling options of the top 8 teams. So you can't really target bowlers that easily. 

 

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

7 minutes ago, Norman said:

No. 

 

40/0 should not be the target in all games. 

 

Against Starc and Cummins, it's all right. 

May be against Boult and Henry as well. 

But against every other team we must target atleast 60/0 after 10 unless it's a green mamba. 

 

As someone mentioned above, every team will not have NCN, Stoinis, Zampa and Maxwell bowling 30 overs. In fact Australia have the worst 3rd , 4th and 5th bowling options of the top 8 teams. So you can't really target bowlers that easily. 

 

 

 

Dhawan targets lousy  bowlers if they are lousy.  He rarely wastes. I do not think any team opens with poor bowlers. Most of them are decent bowlers. Amir, Hasan not easy to score off of.  Even Afghan seamer is pretty nippy. Windies is bouncing out every team including SENA team. Bounced out Pakistan, Bounced out Australia now bOunced out South Africans.  England has Joffra Archer and Woakes. There are no real freebies upfront. ANy movement you are going to get early on.

[Vijy]

8 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Dhawan targets lousy  bowlers if they are lousy.  He rarely wastes. I do not think any team opens with poor bowlers. Most of them are decent bowlers. Amir, Hasan not easy to score off of.  Even Afghan seamer is pretty nippy. Windies is bouncing out every team including SENA team. Bounced out Pakistan, Bounced out Australia now bOunced out South Africans.  England has Joffra Archer and Woakes. There are no real freebies upfront. ANy movement you are going to get early on.

I think Starc-Cummins are arguably better than any of the duos named so far. So, I hope (and expect) the openers to provide more brisk starts henceforth.

[zen]

If someone is sent to open, it is expected that he is good enough to score runs despite challenges. There is no concept of nightwatchman in ODIs 

[vvvslaxman]

16 minutes ago, Vijy said:

I think Starc-Cummins are arguably better than any of the duos named so far. So, I hope (and expect) the openers to provide more brisk starts henceforth.

We saw in CT final when we collapse upfront. Imploded to 158 all out even with Ashwin and Jaddu in the backend. We collapsed in the warm up against NZ. Look wat happened. Did our middle order take us to 300?  Same way India collapsed at the top twice in NZ. Once got bowled out for 92. Another time we finished with 250. Indian middle order is not capable of resurrecting the Indian innings after a collapse. Collapse can be a result of good bowling or reckless batting. 

 

England was 44/2 vs SA in their match on a flat bed as against India 34/1 on a tough track. Against BD England 15/0 after 5 overs. only thanks to some dumb bowling changes by BD they reached 67 in the first 10. 62 against Pakistan. We are talking about world's best batting side with 11 batsmen. Even they didn't exactly get to 100/1, 85/0.  Our end goal is put up a par score and defend it or restrict opposition to below par and chase it down. We don't have to copy England batting. 

[wanted_desi]

You won't win World Cup with this approach. 

[zen]

35 minutes ago, wanted_desi said:

You won't win World Cup with this approach. 

Scoring quickly and big is not mutually exclusive for good players. If Viv Richards were batting, he would look forward to taking on a Dennis Lillee  

 

 

[jusarrived]

ATG Openers will score at 4 rpo in 10 overs of power plays and so called weak middle order is expected to score at 8 an over for 40 overs or 10 an over in last 20 to reach a par score . That’s some plan 

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, jusarrived said:

ATG Openers will score at 4 rpo in 10 overs of power plays and so called weak middle order is expected to score at 8 an over for 40 overs or 10 an over in last 20 to reach a par score . That’s some plan 

You sound like exactly after 10 overs Rohit and Dhawan get out? India scored 57 runs from 10th and 20th over.  Best time to score quickly is in the last 10 overs. You could score 100 runs without breaking sweat. Most teams do. In 1999 world cup Ganguly and Dravid scored 133 runs in the last 10 overs ended up with 383 runs. This is 2019. 

[zen]

1 minute ago, jusarrived said:

ATG Openers will score at 4 rpo in 10 overs of power plays and so called weak middle order is expected to score at 8 an over for 40 overs or 10 an over in last 20 to reach a par score . That’s some plan 

Don’t burst the bubble  

[maniac]

7 minutes ago, jusarrived said:

ATG Openers will score at 4 rpo in 10 overs of power plays and so called weak middle order is expected to score at 8 an over for 40 overs or 10 an over in last 20 to reach a par score . That’s some plan 

That’s because concept of middle overs don’t exist anymore. Only 4 fielders from 10-40 overs.

 

If you lose early wickets 10-40 will be spent consolidating instead of set batsman cashing in.

 

Are you still living in the 90s