Role of Bharat Arun in Indian bowling becoming very good

[ShoonyaSifar]

Arun has been great but how much of that has been due to continuity and how much of it is due to players understanding their own games better having gained more experience. 
 

Bharat Arun has had two stints as the bowling coach - 

1. for 2 years from 2014-2016 when Shastri was team Director and Fletcher the coach. Let’s not talk about the results of that period.

2. Since a July 2017 when Shastri became the coach. Till about 12 months ago, the bowling unit was above average. They upped their performance in Australia and have continued the form vs WI and now SA.

 

From 2014 to 5 years later now, the bowling unit has largely remained the same - Ishant, Shami and Umesh plus Ashwin and Jadeja. Bumrah came in from 2016 onwards but he is a natural freak. Ishant’s resurgence was due to county stint under Gillespie, Umesh has had 3 good tests in this period at home, was largely useless playing away from home. Shami is the real success story and Arun can claim to have helped in his success.

 

Not one young bowler groomed to achieve his potential in these 5 years. No one seems to be there on the horizon either largely due to TM’s (Arun is a part of it) apathy for younger bowlers. 
 

Talking purely about our test bowling. LOI bowling has been unstable and directionless. Imagine we preferred Bhuvi over a red hot Shami in WC knockouts. So overall, lots of goods but littered with huge disappointments.

 

I’d be circumspect of the players talking highly about their current coaches. That’s just a general courtesy imo.
 

[rkt.india]

9 hours ago, Vilander said:

Aruns work is his not shastris all credit to him.

 

To his credit Shastri did make sure he got Arun instead of Zak( we do not know what Zak would have done). 

 

 

Zak would not be a good coach. He complicates things and try to change their natural ways. Khaleel sudden decline in pace had a lot to do with Zak 

[maniac]

39 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

 

Bharat Arun has had two stints as the bowling coach - 

1. for 2 years from 2014-2016 when Shastri was team Director and Fletcher the coach. Let’s not talk about the results of that period.

2. Since a July 2017 when Shastri became the coach. Till about 12 months ago, the bowling unit was above average. They upped their performance in Australia and have continued the form vs WI and now SA.

I’d be circumspect of the players talking highly about their current coaches. That’s just a general courtesy imo.
 

I am not defending him but Indian bowling was bowling out every team in the 2015 WC till the semifinals. in the 2016 WT20 and Asia cup too our bowling was knocking over sides bar 1-2 hiccups

 

In the 2014 leg of SENA tours we came close to winning a game in Nzl until Mccullum ruined it. We had a match set up against SA till SA fought back, We won 1 test and drew 1 in England a significant improvement from 2011. In Aus too we almost won a test in that Kohli-Vijay partnership game.

 

Looks like an improvement to me compared to our previous leg in 2011-2012.

 

Also it wasn't our bowling it is our batting that let us down in most games. At least 50% of the games we ended up losing could have been drawn in that leg of SENA.

 

Again I am not defending Arun or saying he saved our bowling but after that dark period in 2011 our bowling has steadily improved. In fact our ability to play spin and swing declined. I kind of give credit to Fletcher too, he has had a history of grooming express bowlers right from Harmison,Flintoff days

Edited October 23, 2019 by maniac

[retired_hurt]

2 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

The best bowling coach that India had was the one operational around 2000-2005, under John Wright. Dont recall his name. 

 

Bruce Reid? He was appointed India's bowling coach for Australian tour of 2003-04 and later for Asia cup as well. Was instrumental in the growth of Irfan Pathan.

Edited October 23, 2019 by retired_hurt

[Rightarmfast]

3 hours ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

From 2014 to 5 years later now, the bowling unit has largely remained the same - Ishant, Shami and Umesh plus Ashwin and Jadeja. Bumrah came in from 2016 onwards but he is a natural freak. Ishant’s resurgence was due to county stint under Gillespie, Umesh has had 3 good tests in this period at home, was largely useless playing away from home. Shami is the real success story and Arun can claim to have helped in his success.

Talking purely about our test bowling. LOI bowling has been unstable and directionless. Imagine we preferred Bhuvi over a red hot Shami in WC knockouts. So overall, lots of goods but littered with huge disappointments.

 

I’d be circumspect of the players talking highly about their current coaches. That’s just a general courtesy imo.
 

Shami's success is because of his own personal coach Badruddin Siddiqui, not bharat arun. I am not convinced Bharat Arun is very much different than Shastri.

[Rightarmfast]

1 hour ago, retired_hurt said:

Bruce Reid? He was appointed India's bowling coach for Australian tour of 2003-04 and later for Asia cup as well. Was instrumental in the growth of Irfan Pathan.

Not Bruce Reid, the one before him. The one who was under John Reid.

[raki05]

18 hours ago, putrevus said:

But people are saying Shastri is useless?Kohli is a egotistical maniac  who is bane for Indian cricket.

Yes they are... they did good job in terms of motivating bowler backing them and extracting best out of it. At the same time batting has suffered and it's lowest of all they did not identify a single youngsters for odi setup and in test Mayank agrawal shined but it has more to do with long time spent in domestic and he was ought to come at some point of time in fact he came little late. Kohli has done great job with bowler in spite of that he din't win anything significant as of now, no test win in SA and eng and zero icc trophy. His test captaincy is excellent barring few chopping and changing and avoiding practice matches but  his odi captaincy is completely bullshit and he ain't going to win any significant odi trophy if he continue like this. On top of that these 2 have real attitude issue.

[gattaca]

Why is everyone missing that Umesh Yadav worked with Subroto Banerjee and paras mambray. Shami improved his fitness working with his long time coach. Ishant worked a lot with Jason gillespie there was an article which explained Ishant was curious and learnt a lot. Ashwin also played lot of county cricket. Every day player will say good things about their current coach. Also lot of these guys play in IPL too and interact with many good coaches. Bharat Arun might be done good but all credit can’t go to him.Op loves Ravi Shastri so he is biased here. 

Edited October 24, 2019 by gattaca

[Rightarmfast]

On 10/23/2019 at 8:28 AM, rkt.india said:

Zak would not be a good coach. He complicates things and try to change their natural ways. Khaleel sudden decline in pace had a lot to do with Zak 

That is your assumption. Do not put forth an assumption as a fact. You also dont know how good or bad Zak is as a coach because there is no sample space. 

[Cricwala]

Lets not start imagining that any coach in this setup has been brought with the mandate to improve the team OR work with any degree of independence in their particular areas. Their No. 1, possibly their only, job is to lay low and nod their heads in agreement with Kaptaan sahab.

 

After Dhoni's rudderless captaincy in tests, Kohli's intent and drive was like a God-send. Although I am not sold about Kohli being an aggressive captain - he wants to win all the time, no doubt, but loses patience and goes defensive when plan A goes awry or tail-enders get stuck in. Follows the ball a lot too, in his field placements. His ODI captaincy is under-par, nothing aggressive or imaginative to write home about there.

 

If coaches had any say in this regime, batting coach Bangar or Shastri would have stepped in when Kohli was on his 'intent & strike-rate' trip vis a vis batsmen like Pujara and Vijay, when Rahane was dropped overseas after string of low scores at home, when middle-order musical chairs was played in ODIs. Likewise, everything in bowling selection has Kohli's stamp - 4 months after Shastri anointed Kuldeep Yadav as our No. 1 spinner overseas, the next Test India played, which also happened to be overseas, saw Kuldeep being dropped! 

 

In pace bowling too, we have failed to develop the tier 2 pack who will need to take over from Shami, Ishant, Umesh, Bhuvi in 2-3 years time - guys like Shardul Thakur have gotten breaks, while likes of Saini, Siraj, Rajpoot, Avesh cool their heels; Umesh is still being included on overseas tours instead of giving experience to some newbie. In ODIs, we have junked the 2 wrist spinner formula that was a key reason behind our solid ODI performances after CT 2017, and gone back to defensive finger spinners like Jadeja. 

 

Lets just accept that with Kohli at the helm, everyone else is just along for the ride, and guys like Shastri/Arun know how this game has to be played without upsetting the applecart too much :) 

 

 

 

 

[Rightarmfast]

2 hours ago, Cricwala said:

Lets not start imagining that any coach in this setup has been brought with the mandate to improve the team OR work with any degree of independence in their particular areas. Their No. 1, possibly their only, job is to lay low and nod their heads in agreement with Kaptaan sahab.

 

After Dhoni's rudderless captaincy in tests, Kohli's intent and drive was like a God-send. Although I am not sold about Kohli being an aggressive captain - he wants to win all the time, no doubt, but loses patience and goes defensive when plan A goes awry or tail-enders get stuck in. Follows the ball a lot too, in his field placements. His ODI captaincy is under-par, nothing aggressive or imaginative to write home about there.

 

If coaches had any say in this regime, batting coach Bangar or Shastri would have stepped in when Kohli was on his 'intent & strike-rate' trip vis a vis batsmen like Pujara and Vijay, when Rahane was dropped overseas after string of low scores at home, when middle-order musical chairs was played in ODIs. Likewise, everything in bowling selection has Kohli's stamp - 4 months after Shastri anointed Kuldeep Yadav as our No. 1 spinner overseas, the next Test India played, which also happened to be overseas, saw Kuldeep being dropped! 

 

In pace bowling too, we have failed to develop the tier 2 pack who will need to take over from Shami, Ishant, Umesh, Bhuvi in 2-3 years time - guys like Shardul Thakur have gotten breaks, while likes of Saini, Siraj, Rajpoot, Avesh cool their heels; Umesh is still being included on overseas tours instead of giving experience to some newbie. In ODIs, we have junked the 2 wrist spinner formula that was a key reason behind our solid ODI performances after CT 2017, and gone back to defensive finger spinners like Jadeja. 

 

Lets just accept that with Kohli at the helm, everyone else is just along for the ride, and guys like Shastri/Arun know how this game has to be played without upsetting the applecart too much :) 

 

 

 

 

Couldnt have put it any better. POT-Thread!

[Ankit_sharma03]

3 hours ago, Cricwala said:

 

 

 

 

when ever they have done that even with options of no.4.....uss player ka satyanaash hua hai

[Gollum]

Current bowlers go out of their way to show appreciation/gratitude to Bharat Arun. Don't see our other coaches being praised so much, Arun is a champ. 

[putrevus]

People have strange ways to discredit people. If Shami has become good , it is becuase of his personal coach, what was this personal coach doing when he was stinking up and was unfit.It is Kohli who had vision since the day he took the captaincy in 2014, even in first test he went with more attacking option Karn Sharma over safer option in Ashwin.He went for win rather than settling for draw then also.

 

Show me which Indian team in their history have competed in all tests .Shami, Ishant and Yadav were all played under other captains.This bowling coach along with Captain have made them into force.What ever they have told the fast bowlers is working.It may be just as simple give message to Shami to get fit.

 

Kohli had the vision and TM is playing their part too.This TM has turned these misfits into a force .

[putrevus]

All three Shastri, Bharat and Kohli have done their bit to turn the fast bowling around and making this team compete in all conditions. Now time has to hand over reigns to another captain who can take this team to new level.People mocked Shastri and Arun but they have proved everyone wrong.