Sanjay Manjrekar: "Pressure has to be put on Rishabh Pant to be more consistent"

[ShoonyaSifar]

22 minutes ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

Like I already said, keep him in Tests. His record in 50-over cricket is mediocre and doesn't deserve backing or a long rope despite repeated failures. India is not short of talent like Sri Lanka or New Zealand.

Let's hear a few names of Indian keeper-batsmen with exemplary List A record. 

[raki05]

Pant ka kya karna hai wo TM and selectors ko dekhney do...........BC ye manju kaisey avi tak commentary box me hai...sala pollard se le k jadega, mirza se le ke ganguly and olympic medal winner athlete everyone slammed him . Forget about netizens isko sab ne latiya hai phir bhi ye latkhor muh chalaney se baaz nahi aata.

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

3 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

Let's hear a few names of Indian keeper-batsmen with exemplary List A record. 

List A averages:
Rishabh Pant: 29.36
Ishan Kishan: 35.56
Sanju Samson: 30.82
Kedar Devdhar: 32.89
Shreevats Goswami: 39.43
Aditya Tare: 32.80
Sheldon Jackson: 36.64
Jitesh Sharma: 35.94

These are just from looking at the squads of the recently concluded Vijay Hazare Trophy. Omitted others like Saha, Karthik and Naman Ojha who also have a superior average. The "domestic cricket has poor playing surfaces" is a lame excuse.

[bowl_out]

1 hour ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

List A averages:
Rishabh Pant: 29.36
Ishan Kishan: 35.56
Sanju Samson: 30.82
Kedar Devdhar: 32.89
Shreevats Goswami: 39.43
Aditya Tare: 32.80
Sheldon Jackson: 36.64
Jitesh Sharma: 35.94

These are just from looking at the squads of the recently concluded Vijay Hazare Trophy. Omitted others like Saha, Karthik and Naman Ojha who also have a superior average. The "domestic cricket has poor playing surfaces" is a lame excuse.

While I'm also in favor of trying out other wicketkeepers in LOIs, I don't think these averages mean much. How's an average of 30 or 32 so much more superior to 29.3.. it is technically higher, but practically the same.

What matters more is if there are any innings of substance or impact within these.. 

They could possibly look at trying out their top 2 wicketkeepers in LOIs - maybe one for ODIs and one for T20s.. and figuring out who fits better where over time. That way there is healthy competition, yet no one breathing down the neck of an upcoming young keeper batsman.

Edited January 16, 2020 by bowl_out

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

39 minutes ago, bowl_out said:

While I'm also in favor of trying out other wicketkeepers in LOIs, I don't think these averages mean much. How's an average of 30 or 32 so much more superior to 29.3.. it is technically higher, but practically the same.

This was just to prove that Rishabh Pant isn't this LOI prodigy that people here are making him out to be. He has a mediocre 50-overs record that doesn't warrant a long rope. If he isn't working out, try out someone else.

[Global.Baba]

2 hours ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

List A averages:
Rishabh Pant: 29.36
Ishan Kishan: 35.56
Sanju Samson: 30.82
Kedar Devdhar: 32.89
Shreevats Goswami: 39.43
Aditya Tare: 32.80
Sheldon Jackson: 36.64
Jitesh Sharma: 35.94

These are just from looking at the squads of the recently concluded Vijay Hazare Trophy. Omitted others like Saha, Karthik and Naman Ojha who also have a superior average. The "domestic cricket has poor playing surfaces" is a lame excuse.

Going by that list, don’t think even Samson deserves. He has a mediocre FC record as well to go with his list A record, has attitude and disciplinary issues. Only performed in IPl and I am ok with him being in the scheme of things for T20.

[prudent_kreeda]

Besides average , there is the factor called potential and the scope for greater development as a long term plan. Hence  current age also matters  .

If only average matters , why only Pant, Kishan & Samson are  in scheme of things , Goswami should be the  front  runner .

 

Edited January 16, 2020 by prudent_kreeda

[ShoonyaSifar]

3 hours ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

List A averages:
Rishabh Pant: 29.36
Ishan Kishan: 35.56
Sanju Samson: 30.82
Kedar Devdhar: 32.89
Shreevats Goswami: 39.43
Aditya Tare: 32.80
Sheldon Jackson: 36.64
Jitesh Sharma: 35.94

These are just from looking at the squads of the recently concluded Vijay Hazare Trophy. Omitted others like Saha, Karthik and Naman Ojha who also have a superior average. The "domestic cricket has poor playing surfaces" is a lame excuse.

So one averages even 40,  90% of them have a low strike rate (<80), Devdhar and Jackson are makeshift keepers, none can score runs (or do not get picked) in IPL (which is a level above domestic cricket)

 

But if you are happy to have Jitesh Sharma play for India (with his SR of 77), I’ll be equally happy to support.

 

BTW a lot of these averages have been inflated since last year due to associates playing main round of Vijay Hazare Trophy.

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

55 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

Going by that list, don’t think even Samson deserves. He has a mediocre FC record as well to go with his list A record, has attitude and disciplinary issues. Only performed in IPl and I am ok with him being in the scheme of things for T20.

Difference being Samson has been in good form recently. Scored 410 runs in 8 matches in Vijay Hazare Trophy 2019/20 at a strike rate of 125. Also scored 91 off 48 against South Africa 'A'.

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

12 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

none can score runs (or do not get picked) in IPL (which is a level above domestic cricket)

Why are people so obsessed with IPL stats? This is the same league where Ambati Rayudu was among the highest run scorers and Jaydev Unadkat was the second highest wicket taker. It's fine to bring it up for picking T20I squads but not ODIs.

[ganeshran]

Selectors should give him more chances for his talent. However, the rope is long but it is not infinite. 

 

Pant should also know that if he is dropped after this many chances, making a return will be very tough. He has to start converting soon.

[prudent_kreeda]

when a youngster who is earmarked as one for the future , is not able to produce consistent results after getting reasonable games , it means there are areas which require corrective measures . It could be  lack of talent to match top level , technique , mindset & temperament issues .

If its lack of talent , its a gone case , no further persistence is called for. 

In Pant's case  it does not seem to be lack of talent - he would not have survived in tests one bit , there is no apparent big weakness either to pace or spin.  He is not the one who  regularly poked around off stump and got out or could not face quality pace or could not handle short stuff. .  

The issues  seem to be  mind set & temperament greatly and a bit of technique . 

When issue is due to technique & temperament  then its the job of self , Coaches , support staff  to 

1) first identify  exact causes for non-performance.

2) Detailed plan of action to rectify each of these issues .

Here lot of Self  introspection plays a major role . A Sachin or Kohli will analyse  how and why they got out in a match  and will work out a way to avoid that mistake in the next match. Others may not , so needs guidance .

 

By the looks of it , Pant does not seem to use the brains much it seems , else we should not be seeing repeat of the same mistakes often. 

If he simply stick to the mantra" I WILL NOT REPEAT THE LAST MISTAKE " , it will make him think of other ways of playing & getting runs .  

It always good to release a struggling talent from playing eleven , and make him follow the corrective actions intensively away from the team , may be in domestics, performance centers etc. and the progress then must be assessed at frequent  intervals .

When they remain within the team they hardly get enough time to work on things . In fact most of the time they are travelling, do short duration throw downs and playing the match . In Pant's case its even more tough as he has to WK drills as well as batting drills in the limited time.

This will aggravate their problem further with complete loss of confidence .

Best thing for Pant would be - TM should allow him to play till  end of NZ tour , see the performance and if no progress , release him from team , handover the development plan to work out .

Million dollar ,q is did anybody hear from Coach , TM  what exact issues to be addressed by Pant. 

Most of the time  we were told by Coach & TM - " he should play his natural game but should be consistent " .

That's the depth of analysis and problem solving skills of  current indian coaching staff. 

[raki05]

51 minutes ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

Why are people so obsessed with IPL stats? This is the same league where Ambati Rayudu was among the highest run scorers and Jaydev Unadkat was the second highest wicket taker. It's fine to bring it up for picking T20I squads but not ODIs.

Risabh pant last 3 odi inning is not so bad...71(70) when we were 125/5.... 40(18) balls and than y'day 29(32).

[Rasgulla]

13 hours ago, New guy said:

I remember you hating samson before because you thought he was threatening dhonis place. Samson doesnt even keep for his state side now and is in poor form in batting

Are you gonna talk lot of shite or back your claims ? 

[Ankit_sharma03]

13 hours ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

It's a perfect example. If Kedar Jadhav can have that record in domestic List A in India then why can't Pant? Even Dinesh Karthik scored 418 runs at a strike rate of 121.15 in the Vijay Hazare Trophy 2019/20, and he's a tried and tested failure as well. If Pant is a failure in domestic one-dayers, how can he score in international one-dayers? "Oh but they play on such poor surfaces". Just lame excuses to defend him.

Coz its simple u back ability ...he has been great in IPL n ranji. List A in India is most poorely organized. He scored in test 

DK n jadhav have failed so it shows Domestic success doesnt mean international

 

 

But he did play in Last ODi series ....

Quote

His numbers show he is not the best keeper batsman in one-dayers. Both Kishan and Samson have a better 50-over average. In fact, you can even find other domestic keeper-batsmen with superior List A records, like Maharashtra's Nikhil Naik.

If only number cud all be true who wud have thought yuvi n rohit wud be such great odi players after 50-60 games

If domestic numbers were only the parameter- vinay, unadkat, kaul , dhawal wud have been legend. Selection is not about picking highest on domestic that anyone can do.....its about having an eye for talent

 

Quote

We picked Ambati Rayudu too based on his IPL performances. That went just perfectly, didn't it?
You're giving too much importance to IPL. That's fine for T20Is but not ODIs.

Rayudu didnt have the ability to play fast bowling....Pant has 100 in Aus n ENG

Im giving important to ability 

Quote

What consistency has Pant shown in 50-over cricket, be it domestic or international? Why should we back him if he has shown he is not made out for that format? In which planet should anyone with a List A average of 29 after 52 matches be given a long rope when there are others behind him who have a superior record?

in domestic he had 1000 runs in a season

In Ipl he has been as consistent as any - domestic t20

 

Kishen n Samson havent been consistent even there and their keeping is below then pant. Even their IPL teams keep another keeper coz they have no full faith in them

Edited January 16, 2020 by Ankit_sharma03

[abc]

5 hours ago, prudent_kreeda said:

Besides average , there is the factor called potential and the scope for greater development as a long term plan. Hence  current age also matters  .

If only average matters , why only Pant, Kishan & Samson are  in scheme of things , Goswami should be the  front  runner .

 

Goswami would ideally be there or thereabouts, but he is from Bengal, so I wouldn't hold my breath on his ever getting picked for the national side.

[putrevus]

There is nothing wrong in Pant going back to domestic cricket and refining the game.Most players except very very few play their whole careers without ever getting dropped.Guys like Pant or Rahul have no reason to complain about their lack of chances.

 

 

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

11 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Coz its simple u back ability ...he has been great in IPL n ranji.

But not List A. We're not talking about T20Is or Tests, we're talking about 50-over cricket. Rishabh Pant has a mediocre record in 50-over cricket.

 

11 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

List A in India is most poorely organized.

It's only "poorly organized" when it fits your narrative. If he had done well, you would have no problems listing out his stats.

 

11 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

If only number cud all be true who wud have thought yuvi n rohit wud be such great odi players after 50-60 games

Yuvi, Rohit etc. were scoring in List A cricket. Pant is mediocre in all 50-over cricket.

 

11 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

f domestic numbers were only the parameter- vinay, unadkat, kaul , dhawal wud have been legend.

Funny, because you yourself are listing out his Ranji stats even though they are in a different format.

 

11 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Pant has 100 in Aus n ENG

In Test cricket. Let's pick Pujara and Rahane in ODIs too then based on their Test exploits?

 

11 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

domestic he had 1000 runs in a season

First-class cricket.

11 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

In Ipl he has been as consistent as any

T20 cricket.

11 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Kishen n Samson havent been consistent even there

They don't need to be consistent in Ranji or IPL while picking for ODIs. Pant has set the bar pretty low in ODIs so they don't need to do much to take his place and do better than him.

[ShoonyaSifar]

9 hours ago, putrevus said:

There is nothing wrong in Pant going back to domestic cricket and refining the game.Most players except very very few play their whole careers without ever getting dropped.Guys like Pant or Rahul have no reason to complain about their lack of chances.

 

 

So why hasn't Captain Fool allowed him (and Kuldeep) to play domestic cricket and kept him in the Test Squad as concussion cover? Who is stopping him

[R!TTER]

2 hours ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

So why hasn't Captain Fool allowed him (and Kuldeep) to play domestic cricket and kept him in the Test Squad as concussion cover? Who is stopping him 

You answered your own question