Was McGrath a defensive bowler?

[rkt.india]

13 hours ago, MultiB48 said:

You need to be a defensive bowler to succeed in tests as conditions generally aid batsmen and most front line pacers bowl under 90mph .Attacking bowlers struggle unless they are having a purple patch or batsmen are struggling to pick their action.

One can always dream of blowing the batsmen away on good batting tracks but it's quite difficult to achieve.

Absolutely. Here people have little idea about bowling and bowling styles.  I am yet to get a reply about Sabir Khan copying Brett Lee and what makes their actions completely different to each other despite him copying Lee from run up to action. Anyone? @Gollum @MechEng @SK_IH @coffee_rules @Rightarmfast @speedheat @Trichromatic @zen @maniac

Edited September 9, 2020 by rkt.india

[rkt.india]

17 hours ago, zen said:

One of the ATG bowlers but highly overrated by many on ICF 

He is rated fine, IMO. What bothers batsmen most is not able to rotate strike or find boundaries. A bowler who can do that is alway difficult to face. A batsman needs one good ball to get out or one mistake. Batsmen make more mistakes when they continue to be on strike against an accurate bowler, not able to move the scoreboard, in confusion whether to play or leave.

 

Edited September 9, 2020 by rkt.india

[Suhaan]

6 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Absolutely. Here people have little idea about bowling and bowling styles.  I am yet to get a reply about Sabir Khan copying Brett Lee and what makes their actions completely different to each other despite him copying Lee from run up to action. Anyone? @Gollum @MechEng @SK_IH @coffee_rules @Rightarmfast @speedheat @Trichromatic @zen @maniac

I feel Sabir's upper body is a little side on when you compare it with his lower half while Lee is front on,thas my observation

[rkt.india]

15 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

I feel Sabir's upper body is a little side on when you compare it with his lower half while Lee is front on,thas my observation

Upper and lower body positions are quite similar. in fact, Sabir is more front on than Lee on upper body. Both are semi- side on bowlers from backfoot landing. This isn't what differentiates them.

Edited September 9, 2020 by rkt.india

[rkt.india]

17 hours ago, MultiB48 said:

You need to be a defensive bowler to succeed in tests as conditions generally aid batsmen and most front line pacers bowl under 90mph .Attacking bowlers struggle unless they are having a purple patch or batsmen are struggling to pick their action.

One can always dream of blowing the batsmen away on good batting tracks but it's quite difficult to achieve.

One more thing, in today's cricket where batsmen look to score runs quickly, an attacking bowler can't have a completely attacking field like a defensive bowler. Attacking bowlers must have less attacking field placements. Otherwise, high chances, they will leak runs. In-out field for an attacking bowler is important.

[Suhaan]

1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

Upper and lower body positions are quite similar. in fact, Sabir is more front on than Lee on upper body. Both are semi- side on bowlers from backfoot landing. This isn't what differentiates them.

Lee is front on mixed but while he is on his action he extends his front leg to be precise his fron t leg is braced but as much as i have observed Sabir's not

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, Suhaan said:

Lee is front on mixed but while he is on his action he extends his front leg to be precise his fron t leg is braced but as much as i have observed Sabir's not

I will DM you.

[MechEng]

14 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Absolutely. Here people have little idea about bowling and bowling styles.  I am yet to get a reply about Sabir Khan copying Brett Lee and what makes their actions completely different to each other despite him copying Lee from run up to action. Anyone? @Gollum @MechEng @SK_IH @coffee_rules @Rightarmfast @speedheat @Trichromatic @zen @maniac

McGrath doesn't wait for a batsman to make mistakes, he forces them to make mistakes. 

 

As a batsman you may need superhuman eyesight to handle McGrath, because he makes such subtle changes in his line and length that even Gavaskar would have found it nearly impossible to pick his every ball.

 

The only way to play McGrath is by attacking him every ball and having faith that today is your lucky day. Only VVS Laxman and Brian Lara have had little success over McGrath.

 

Laxman too apart from his 167 at Sydney and 281 has struggled against McGrath. 

Edited September 9, 2020 by MechEng

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, MechEng said:

McGrath doesn't wait for a batsman to make mistakes, he forces them to make mistakes. 

 

As a batsman you may need superhuman eyesight to handle McGrath, because he makes such subtle changes in his line and length that even Gavaskar would have found it nearly impossible to pick his every ball.

 

The only way to play McGrath is by attacking him every ball and having faith that today is your lucky day. Only VVS Laxman and Brian Lara have had little success over McGrath.

 

Laxman too apart from his 167 at Sydney and 281 has struggled against McGrath. 

It's humanely impossible to bowl the same delivery every time. Same result can be achieved but same repetition can't be.

 

As @MultiB48 says, they are natural variations but made highly effective by his corridor bowling. 

[Nikhil_cric]

On 9/9/2020 at 7:39 AM, rkt.india said:

What's your bread and butter defines you, not occasional variation. McGrath himself said he never tried to swing the ball. He just hit the deck most times. What you do 90% is what defines your style.

Theres a difference. Many say McGrath was boring and had little variation. The truth is, he intentionally  stuck to bowling a hard, good length because of the bounce he generated and its effectiveness. It's not like he couldn't pitch it fuller and swing the ball. He didnt because he didn't  need to. 

[express bowling]

McGrath used to bowl channel deliveries ball after ball after ball. That too with extra bounce.

 

Such deliveries are meant to confuse batsmen regarding whether to play or to leave. Both in terms of line as well as in terms of height of the ball. Such deliveries are meant to take wickets.

 

Plus he had a serious bouncer which he used freely.

 

McGrath was a very aggressive bowler in my opinion.

Edited September 11, 2020 by express bowling

[rkt.india]

20 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Theres a difference. Many say McGrath was boring and had little variation. The truth is, he intentionally  stuck to bowling a hard, good length because of the bounce he generated and its effectiveness. It's not like he couldn't pitch it fuller and swing the ball. He didnt because he didn't  need to. 

And that's the reason he was a defensive bowler.

[rkt.india]

4 hours ago, express bowling said:

McGrath used to bowl channel deliveries ball after ball after ball. That too with extra bounce.

 

Such deliveries are meant to confuse batsmen regarding whether to play or to leave. Both in terms of line as well as in terms of height of the ball. Such deliveries are meant to take wickets.

 

And that type of bowling is defined as defensive bowling. Also extra bounce had nothing to do with bowling style. It's a by product of his height and high arm action.  Extra bounce aided him with his defensive bowling style. 

[Nikhil_cric]

21 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

And that's the reason he was a defensive bowler.

Um who defined this as defensive bowling. Currently, hazlewood is doing the same and got two wickets. defensive bowling is to stop runs. Mcgrath was a wicket-taker 

[speedheat]

People here are failing to understand the role and style of McGrath's bowling in ATG Aussie attack. 

A defensive bowler would always stick to Good line length bowling with whatever skills he possesses making it difficult for batsman to score runs. which exactly what McGrath was.

 

[Real McCoy]

On 9/6/2020 at 4:10 PM, Gollum said:

Attritional is a better word, very subtle, nettlesome, relentless with no margin of error. He is to cricket what Nadal is to tennis or Carlsen to chess. 

 

If you want to term it defensive fine, you can make a case. He would draw errors from batsmen, wait for mistakes rather than search for wickets via extravagant swing/seam or unplayable deliveries. Chinese water torture rather than quick execution, boa constrictor's slow grip of death rather than quick bite by a viper/cobra. 

 

The late Peter Roebuck contrasted Kumble's workman-like approach with Warne's flair, for him Warne was a gambler with a pack of aces while Kumble was a dentist with a drill. Similar analogy to distinguish an Akram from McGrath or Ashwin from Lyon. 

 

That's it then, channeled my inner Harsh Thakor even if just for a post, one of my life goals achieved.

[Real McCoy]

On 9/6/2020 at 9:11 PM, Gollum said:

Made every great batsman of his era his beech...Lara, Tendu, Dravid, Kallis...his teammates were luckier. And what a clutch performer, bigger the stage, greater his aura. 

 

And then a certain someone says Cronje was the toughest bowler he ever faced, I mean wtf!!!!!

Shots fired

[Real McCoy]

Whenever he was bowling against us, me and my friends watching the game used to be nervous more so if its an important wc game and knockouts. That in itself says he is an attacking bowler. He had the bounce that would make the batsmen play from the crease to a fuller length delivery and good enough pace to keep them from advancing down the crease. He literally owned Lara, Tendulkar, Dravid, Kallis, Laxman, who were some of the best batsmen not just in their era but can make the top 10 or 20 throughout all eras. He forced the batsmen to play attacking cricket to fluster him a little bit. That is another indication that he troubled them by bowling the nagging length day in day out. Its almost like he is throwing the gauntlet at the batsmen that one of these deliveries is gonna get you out so you might as well be brave and attack and score runs. That is real attacking bowling not Varun Aaron hitting Stuart Broad on the helmet and beaming little moster from bonglodesh Mushy

[express bowling]

3 hours ago, rkt.india said:

And that type of bowling is defined as defensive bowling. 

 

No.

 

Defensive bowling style is when a bowler is trying to contain runs as his primary objective and taking wickets is secondary to him.

 

Defensive pacers don't go for good length channel deliveries but bowl back of a length middle to off-middle. 

 

Quote

Also extra bounce had nothing to do with bowling style. It's a by product of his height and high arm action.  Extra bounce aided him with his defensive bowling style. 

 

Pacers who get extra bounce naturally can develop a bowling style which would use this ability to get more wickets.

 

McGrath used the bounce that he got to his advantage ... to bowl aggressively. He used to bowl in such areas where his natural extra bounce would get the edges consistently.

 

Edited September 11, 2020 by express bowling

[rkt.india]

6 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

No.

 

Defensive bowling style is when a bowler is trying to contain runs as his primary objective and taking wickets is secondary to him.

 

Defensive pacers don't go for good length channel deliveries but bowl back of a length middle to off-middle. 

 

 

Pacers who get extra bounce naturally can develop a bowling style which would use this ability to get more wickets.

 

McGrath used the bounce that he got to his advantage ... to bowl aggressively. He used to bowl in such areas where his natural extra bounce would get the edges consistently.

 

And McGrath mostly bowled back of length, 4th to 5th stump. He hardly attacked the stumps. This type of bowling eventually contained runs and then he forced batsmen to make mistakes by keep bowling there.