Lil Early to Say but this England side are showing Flashes of the Dominant Australian side

[Vickydev]

I wont look at the past results too much against this English setup. Its their improvement of players that makes then scary. They are planning meticulously and making rapid strides as a result. Their bowling has come leaps since 2018 when we last toured them and have added quality bench strength to their batting. I wont be surprised if in the next 2-3 years they plan multiple tours to the SC for improving their game on slow pitches for 2023.

[Clarke]

Not in my book.

 

Most of Eng batting seems hit or miss and doesn't seem to have one batsman with the quality and finesse of a Damien Martyn, let alone Ponting. Who's gonna hold up an end when conditions are tougher, Joe the Root canal ? 

 

Aussies were actually a rampaging juggernaut in World Cups going unbeaten for a long time, these guys barely won on a technicality in 2019. 

 

Even when it comes to bowling, Archer & Wood look good but do they have the quality of McGrath & Lee/others over the long term ? I'm not gonna insult Warne by comparing him to English spinners. In WC 2003, they almost didn't miss Warnie, that's how well rounded that team was at its peak. 

 

Someone mentioned Eng lower order batting being better, may be this is partially true. The thing is Eng go about taking a lot of risks and end up depending on the rescue acts now and then. Aus didn't need that, and once in a while Lee/Warne did make some contribution. Who knows, they may have made more runs if they needed to do so as often as Eng does. 

 

Buttler & Stokes are comparable to Gilchrist & Symonds, for every other equivalent Aus is hands down superior, which is why this is a flawed comparison.

 

Would we have this discussion if Smith was playing & helped whitewash Eng on their turf ?

[Vk1]

25 minutes ago, Clarke said:

Not in my book.

 

Most of Eng batting seems hit or miss and doesn't seem to have one batsman with the quality and finesse of a Damien Martyn, let alone Ponting. Who's gonna hold up an end when conditions are tougher, Joe the Root canal ? 

 

Aussies were actually a rampaging juggernaut in World Cups going unbeaten for a long time, these guys barely won on a technicality in 2019. 

 

Even when it comes to bowling, Archer & Wood look good but do they have the quality of McGrath & Lee/others over the long term ? I'm not gonna insult Warne by comparing him to English spinners. In WC 2003, they almost didn't miss Warnie, that's how well rounded that team was at its peak. 

 

Someone mentioned Eng lower order batting being better, may be this is partially true. The thing is Eng go about taking a lot of risks and end up depending on the rescue acts now and then. Aus didn't need that, and once in a while Lee/Warne did make some contribution. Who knows, they may have made more runs if they needed to do so as often as Eng does. 

 

Buttler & Stokes are comparable to Gilchrist & Symonds, for every other equivalent Aus is hands down superior, which is why this is a flawed comparison.

 

Would we have this discussion if Smith was playing & helped whitewash Eng on their turf ?

you may be right in your analysis but the point is England need not be as good as the Aussies of that time.. they can be a very good side and still be dominating the odi game.. 

[Rasgulla]

Let's close this thread and never open again

 

Lost series to Aus....prob worst batting order since last 20 years

[GeeGaw]

15 hours ago, Stan AF said:

One thing this english team is above that Aussie team is their bowlers are more than capable bats.They can bat upto #11 even without guys like Stokes in the playing 11.

 

Tom and Sam curran can bat. Rashid can bat. David willey hit a 50 against us in 2018. Liam Plunkett can bat. The only bowler who can't bat like the rest would be Mark wood.

Does anyone on this board realize there is a third phase to the game called fielding?  This England squad is total shite at it with Stokes out and the dominant AUS teams rarely if ever let a batsman off the hook with sloppy play in the field.  This ENG team is better batting side, old AUS teams were better with the ball on a consistent basis but the fielding is MILES apart.  And that is what makes the old AUS team the greater of the two.

[Trichromatic]

One day Morgan's captaincy looked great when he bowled out all pacers.

 

Other day he bowled out all pacers and left out with Rashid bowling last over. 

 

No matter how much pacers are getting tonked and spinner is having good day, last over should be given to a pacer.

[Trichromatic]

 

 

Overall figures

Team	Span	Mat	Won	Lost	Tied	NR	W/L	Ave	RPO	Inns	HS	LS
England	2017-2020	60	39	15	1	5	2.600	40.98	6.27	57	481	113
India	2017-2020	65	43	19	2	1	2.263	44.30	5.78	64	392	92
New Zealand	2017-2020	44	28	14	1	1	2.000	36.67	5.53	44	371	157
South Africa	2017-2020	45	27	16	0	2	1.687	38.06	5.55	45	369	118
Bangladesh	2017-2020	44	23	21	0	0	1.095	33.73	5.43	44	333	82
Pakistan	2017-2019	48	22	24	0	2	0.916	37.23	5.53	48	399	74
Australia	2017-2020	51	23	28	0	0	0.821	34.10	5.68	51	381	152
West Indies	2017-2020	60	21	34	1	4	0.617	33.24	5.55	57	389	104
Sri Lanka	2017-2020	49	17	31	0	1	0.548	27.19	5.36	48	366	103

 

 

[Trichromatic]

Forget about being dominant, only match they won was the one in which Aussies choked.

[Suhaan]

They almost got whitewashed in this series

[Gollum]

Key words by @Ankit_sharma03

 

Early to say

Flashes

 

Dunno why people are missing the point he is trying to say. We may never see another ATG side like WI/Aus but 3rd spot up for grabs. 

[Vk1]

Important thing to note.. this was a series played in Sept in England on pitches assisting spinners.. this is their achilees heel.. 

But, normally ODI game is played 80% of the time on absolute flat tracks..  so they will continue to dominate

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 hour ago, Gollum said:

Key words by @Ankit_sharma03

 

Early to say

Flashes

 

Dunno why people are missing the point he is trying to say. We may never see another ATG side like WI/Aus but 3rd spot up for grabs. 

thank u for saying that ...cant bang my head enough in the wall anymore for something i hvent even written, ridiculous how they are mentioning those ATG strength which i never even said this ENG side possesed. 

 

50 minutes ago, Vk1 said:

Important thing to note.. this was a series played in Sept in England on pitches assisting spinners.. this is their achilees heel.. 

But, normally ODI game is played 80% of the time on absolute flat tracks..  so they will continue to dominate

its ok to loose a series even ATG  Aus lost to pakistan in 2002 in australia itself 

In a 3 match series it cud go any where, they lost to one of the greatest ODI partnership and sometimes u got to hand it to opposition. 

This Aussie side is pretty good unlike many are saying its is bad- Damn bloody good bowling attack, Warner finch very good opening, carrey now doesnt look great but wait till he retires and players like Maxi can turn the game on its head which he did 

[speedheat]

This side is a midget not even close  to ATG Aussie side.

[Suhaan]

This thread has huge potential to get frequently bumped everytime England plays

 

Dil Se Thank you

 

Edited September 17, 2020 by Suhaan

[Majestic]

How many of these players will walk into England all time ODI side?

 

Trescrothik

Bairstow

Root

Morgan(c)

Stokes

Buttler (wkt)

Flintoff

Swann/Rashid

Gough

Anderson

 

Archer might get into the side as well in few years time.

Edited September 18, 2020 by Majestic

[kohli]

2 hours ago, Majestic said:

How many of these players will walk into England all time ODI side?

 

Trescrothik

Bairstow

Root

Morgan(c)

Stokes

Buttler (wkt)

Flintoff

Swann/Rashid

Gough

Anderson

 

Archer might get into the side as well in few years time.

Trescothick 

bairstow 

kp 

morgan 

stokes

buttler

flintoff

Woakes 

swann

Gough 

anderson

 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

2 hours ago, Majestic said:

How many of these players will walk into England all time ODI side?

 

Trescrothik

Bairstow

Root

Morgan(c)

Stokes

Buttler (wkt)

Flintoff

Swann/Rashid

Gough

Anderson

 

Archer might get into the side as well in few years time.

No kevin pietersen ?

10 player team

Edited September 18, 2020 by Ankit_sharma03

[New guy]

23 hours ago, speedheat said:

This side is a midget not even close  to ATG Aussie side.

Yep, they make too many mistakes at key moments. Austrailain all time great team could win from any position too

 

. However they never got the basics wrong, they never dropped catches or missed run outs, wouldn't bowl no balls at key times. Butler is a very poor keeper and will continue to cost key wickets. All matches of recent series have been really close.  While aussies could come back when down, most times they absolutely thumped their opposition. This team couldn't even thrash Pakistan in one single match and Pakistan is a very poor one day team 

[New guy]

On 9/17/2020 at 10:33 AM, Gollum said:

Key words by @Ankit_sharma03

 

Early to say

Flashes

 

Dunno why people are missing the point he is trying to say. We may never see another ATG side like WI/Aus but 3rd spot up for grabs. 

the thing is, there are 2 aspects of an ATG team 

 

1) They absolutely dominate other teams most times. They thump and demoralize their opponents and put the fear of God in them

 

2) They can fight back from any position to win any match and any player can stand up when needed 

 

This English team is showing glimpses of the later but I have not seen the former. Thsy couldn't even thump pakistan, which is a really weak team, in any format, even in one single match. And the reason is they make too many mistakes. Drop catches, missed chances, at key times. Butler is a liability being played for his batting. He dropped Maxwells catch at a key moment in the decider 

 

 

And IMO 1 is more important than 2 to be an ATG team. An ATG team shouldn't find itself in too many difficult situations 

 

Till england learn to really thrash opposition (and not just by final series score but in individual matches), it wont be anywhere near an ATG team and wouldn't be greater than Dhonis team 

Edited September 18, 2020 by New guy

[prudent_kreeda]

2 hours ago, New guy said:

the thing is, there are 2 aspects of an ATG team 

 

1) They absolutely dominate other teams most times. They thump and demoralize their opponents and put the fear of God in them

 

2) They can fight back from any position to win any match and any player can stand up when needed 

 

This English team is showing glimpses of the later but I have not seen the former. Thsy couldn't even thump pakistan, which is a really weak team, in any format, even in one single match. And the reason is they make too many mistakes. Drop catches, missed chances, at key times. Butler is a liability being played for his batting. He dropped Maxwells catch at a key moment in the decider 

 

 

And IMO 1 is more important than 2 to be an ATG team. An ATG team shouldn't find itself in too many difficult situations 

 

Till england learn to really thrash opposition (and not just by final series score but in individual matches), it wont be anywhere near an ATG team and wouldn't be greater than Dhonis team 

     There are 2-3 areas where Eng is vulnerable and any team which can exploit those will make eng re- think their team composition and with that the edge of deep batting strength may also go away. Right now even if they lose 2-3 wickets in PP, they still get around 6 per over and make 280 plus runs due deep batting strength. 

     1. Pacers - apart from Archer & Wood  - other bowlers depend too much on slower balls to avoid getting smashed . If other  teams devise a way

        to counter this and easily score 8-9 runs per over without giving away too many wickets to them ,they will have to  replace likes of Woakes, Tom & S. curren .  That will lead to losing their deep batting depth . Batsmen need to wait and they will get 1-2 balls per over among those slower balls to get a boundary . 

 2. Spinners - Their ageing spinners are not that great , though if you listen to Eng commies like Nasser , they make Rashid as among the best in the world . Once you start attacking them &  nullify the threat , team combo will be in mess . 

3. The batsmen are vulnerable if there is some seam deviation or against spinners who  are not one dimensional and difficult to read. . Better to have such bowlers vs them ( A swing bowler may be more effective than a pacy bowler without much seam deviation) .  

4. Since they want Buttler as WK , their WK will always be suspect for spinners and it may cost them big in crucial matches .