Dissecting England’s attacking approach that won them the World Cup

[Global.Baba]

Warm up games

 

Aus- 297

Eng-285 allout (49.3)

 

Afghanistan -  160

England-  161/1 (17.3)

 

Main world cup

 Vs SA- Won batting first 311/8 (50)

 

Vs Pak- Lost chasing 348, ended up with 334

 

vs Bang- won batting  first 386/6(50)

 

vs WI- won chasing 212 in 33.1 overs losing 2 wickets 

 

Vs Afghan- won batting first 397/6

 

 Vs Srilanka- Lost chasing 239. Bowled out for 217 in 47

 

vs Australia- Lost chasing 285. Bowled out for  221 in  44.5 overs

 

vs India- won batting first- 337 in 50 while India’s approach in the final overs in that game is now legendary as the CSK NRR approach 

 

Vs Nzl- won batting first 305/8

 

Semi final- won chasing 223

 

Final- won after 2 super overs chasing and tieing a score of 241

 

Yes England is an exciting team and a strong team but this theory about this approach winning them everything is stupid.

 

India and England white ball teams as shown in this series are on par and dare I say I will put India marginally ahead.

 

Nothing wrong with Indias game plan. Blind imitation will lead to disaster. Let’s not fix something that isn’t broken. If some great players come along then good but we are in the midst of a golden generation of Indian cricket, stop complaining just because of your whims and fancies of how you want the match to go.

[zen]

For Eng, its last 4-5 games iirc beginning with one v Ind were KOs ... So they were playing virtual KOs even before the KOs ... they chased in both KO games too ... Their approach made them eventually cross the hurdles (that is the big picture not some w/l ratio)

[Global.Baba]

2 minutes ago, zen said:

For Eng, its last 4-5 games iirc beginning with one v Ind were KOs ... So they were playing virtual KOs even before the KOs ... they chased in both KO games too ... Their approach made them eventually cross the hurdles (that is the big picture not some w/l ratio)

right  and that approach was sensible. I expected them to score 375+ every match or chase totals in 25-30 overs based on the hype 

 

It seems they had good players playing good and sensible cricket not so different from India which had a bad day and despite that almost pulled off a win.

Edited March 26, 2021 by Global.Baba

[zen]

1 minute ago, Global.Baba said:

right  and that approach was sensible. I expected them to score 375+ every match or chase totals in 25-30 overs based on the hype 

 

It seems they had good players playing good and sensible cricket not so different from India which had a bad day and despite that almost pulled off a win.

 

No team would score 375+ in every game or chase total downs in 25-30 overs 

 

And compare that to a team that picked up its game playing its last 4-5 games as KOs/virtual KOs (no bad days when it mattered) 

[zen]

@Global.Baba 

 

PS even when Eng had lost the game v Pak, one could see that they had the ingredients to pick up their game and win the tournament:

 

 

^ Above written during that WC 

Edited March 26, 2021 by zen

[Global.Baba]

Yes England team’s quality in LOI’s has gone up and caught up with teams like India and Australia. However they have something that works for them and we have something that has been working for us. As you can see the final result (not one match or 2) is not that different. Both teams have only marginal difference. We have different strengths and are a different team why should we become like another team which give or take is only slightly ahead or in some matters even behind?

[zen]

4 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

Yes England team’s quality in LOI’s has gone up and caught up with teams like India and Australia. However they have something that works for them and we have something that has been working for us. As you can see the final result (not one match or 2) is not that different. Both teams have only marginal difference. We have different strengths and are a different team why should we become like another team which give or take is only slightly ahead or in some matters even behind?

 

I am positive that when Rohit, probably a relic, retires, you would encourage Ind to play like Eng ... It is not about style x or y but where cricket is moving. When power plays were introduced, teams that learned to leverage on those gained huge momentum (SL in 96) 

 

At the moment, Ind looks like it can be competitive usually in certain conditions (not surprised since it is a slow learner and usually focused on the short term)

[SrinjayDutta]

6 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

Yes England team’s quality in LOI’s has gone up and caught up with teams like India and Australia. However they have something that works for them and we have something that has been working for us. As you can see the final result (not one match or 2) is not that different. Both teams have only marginal difference. We have different strengths and are a different team why should we become like another team which give or take is only slightly ahead or in some matters even behind?

i think our approach is getting negativity because of these pitches. I would love to see a extreme turning track prepared for them. I have no idea why india dont play to their weaknesses.

[R_Sridhar]

36 minutes ago, SrinjayDutta said:

i think our approach is getting negativity because of these pitches. I would love to see a extreme turning track prepared for them. I have no idea why india dont play to their weaknesses.

Because its our weakness too so it could backfire

 

 

 

[sandeep]

1 hour ago, Global.Baba said:

Warm up games

 

Aus- 297

Eng-285 allout (49.3)

 

Afghanistan -  160

England-  161/1 (17.3)

 

Main world cup

 Vs SA- Won batting first 311/8 (50)

 

Vs Pak- Lost chasing 348, ended up with 334

 

vs Bang- won batting  first 386/6(50)

 

vs WI- won chasing 212 in 33.1 overs losing 2 wickets 

 

Vs Afghan- won batting first 397/6

 

 Vs Srilanka- Lost chasing 239. Bowled out for 217 in 47

 

vs Australia- Lost chasing 285. Bowled out for  221 in  44.5 overs

 

vs India- won batting first- 337 in 50 while India’s approach in the final overs in that game is now legendary as the CSK NRR approach 

 

Vs Nzl- won batting first 305/8

 

Semi final- won chasing 223

 

Final- won after 2 super overs chasing and tieing a score of 241

 

Yes England is an exciting team and a strong team but this theory about this approach winning them everything is stupid.

 

what an absolute dumb*** sample set.

 

Look at their track record over the last 3+ years.  They are scoring 200 in 30 overs regularly.  Batting first or second.  And every 10 games or so, they will have a collapse like they did in the previous game, and they will lose it.  But more often than not, their bulldozer style batting puts up wins, and big ones.  

 

Quote

India and England white ball teams as shown in this series are on par and dare I say I will put India marginally ahead.

 

Nothing wrong with Indias game plan. Blind imitation will lead to disaster. Let’s not fix something that isn’t broken. If some great players come along then good but we are in the midst of a golden generation of Indian cricket, stop complaining just because of your whims and fancies of how you want the match to go.

 

India is not "marginally" ahead in terms of player resources - it is significantly ahead - but their results are not.  that's the problem. 

 

And nobody's saying we blindly imitate the England method - we don't play the game with 4 allrounders in the team.  We don't need to ape them and shoot for 400 every time.  But the current method of ensuring 300 before trying to get whatever extra we can, is definitely "broken".  As we saw today, 330 is not a score that helps bowler be more effective with scoreboard pressure.  Its a score that's gettable - even Sri Lanka with their weakass team beat our ass black and blue all the way back in 2017 to chase 330-odd.  

 

Teams that consider themselves strong batting units ought to regularly put up scores comfortably past 350.  India is not doing it, because it doesn't aim for it.  That's the problem.  A major re-alignment of the batting method for the first 38 overs is overdue.  One that demands selfless team-first approach from the top order batsmen, instead of allowing them to camouflage their pursuit of individual glory in the name of 'setting up platform' for the team.

[New guy]

Imagine thinking asking openers to bat at 5 an over instead of 3 an over is trying to imitate English. Dude English batsmen bat at 7 and 8 an over in first 10 . All we want is 5 an over. There is definitely a middle ground and people who pretend there isnt are deliberately acting dumb here

[putrevus]

Indian approach needs slight tweaking nothing major as most people seem to indicate. Guy like Pant could come in at number and express himself because there was solid foundation set. The problem is not India's batting approach, it is lack of sixth bowling option and spinners unable to do any sort of damage during middle overs.

 

How many scores of 330 plus plus have been chased by teams. India needs to look more wicket taking bowlers who can take wickets upfront and give spinners a chance to bowl to new batsmen. Bhuvi for all his control averages less than wicket per match.

 

 

Edited March 26, 2021 by putrevus

[mishra]

Now to young icfers, Sachin was top 10 ATG cricketer by year 2000,  one reason was, Aussies were most dominant side and scored at very high S/R , compared to rest of world, but they knew with certainty, world knew with certainty that despite pathetic lineup, Sachin and Sachin alone could outscore every team, not just Aussies when it came to S/R. Hence that display of happiness each time Sachin got out. Because world knew, no ione has potential to chase down aussie total in odi format apart from Lara and Sachin. 
 

So for me, Issue is S/R and strike rate alone. Both Rahul and Kohli are duds when it comes to moderns rule odi/t20 aka limited over cricket. I will be surprised if anyone can get a example of India win where unless some players didn’t play 200+- SR inning scoring 25+ runs in t20 or a quick fifty+ In odi once Superstar Kohli has scored a difty or hundred.
 

in simple terms, Kohli can score daddy hundred but if someone else within team hasn't played a gem of inning , S/R of kohli will loose us game. 
 

 

Indian team and its success is sold to Kohlis PR agency. We all know, Kohli is not fit to represent India in imited over cricket since 2017. But BCCI/ICC kohli has worked hard on branding and they don’t want to loose the investment.

Edited March 26, 2021 by mishra

[mishra]

5 hours ago, Global.Baba said:

Warm up games

 

Aus- 297

Eng-285 allout (49.3)

 

Afghanistan -  160

England-  161/1 (17.3)

 

Main world cup

 Vs SA- Won batting first 311/8 (50)

 

Vs Pak- Lost chasing 348, ended up with 334

 

vs Bang- won batting  first 386/6(50)

 

vs WI- won chasing 212 in 33.1 overs losing 2 wickets 

 

Vs Afghan- won batting first 397/6

 

 Vs Srilanka- Lost chasing 239. Bowled out for 217 in 47

 

vs Australia- Lost chasing 285. Bowled out for  221 in  44.5 overs

 

vs India- won batting first- 337 in 50 while India’s approach in the final overs in that game is now legendary as the CSK NRR approach 

 

Vs Nzl- won batting first 305/8

 

Semi final- won chasing 223

 

Final- won after 2 super overs chasing and tieing a score of 241

 

Yes England is an exciting team and a strong team but this theory about this approach winning them everything is stupid.

 

India and England white ball teams as shown in this series are on par and dare I say I will put India marginally ahead.

 

Nothing wrong with Indias game plan. Blind imitation will lead to disaster. Let’s not fix something that isn’t broken. If some great players come along then good but we are in the midst of a golden generation of Indian cricket, stop complaining just because of your whims and fancies of how you want the match to go.

Dada, iirc please Check the result when Roy played and missed. The matches where England lost was Roy was injured. Englands approach was working arleast 2 year since runup to the world cup. And its still working.

[Vijy]

4 hours ago, sandeep said:

what an absolute dumb*** sample set.

 

Look at their track record over the last 3+ years.  They are scoring 200 in 30 overs regularly.  Batting first or second.  And every 10 games or so, they will have a collapse like they did in the previous game, and they will lose it.  But more often than not, their bulldozer style batting puts up wins, and big ones.  

 

 

India is not "marginally" ahead in terms of player resources - it is significantly ahead - but their results are not.  that's the problem. 

 

And nobody's saying we blindly imitate the England method - we don't play the game with 4 allrounders in the team.  We don't need to ape them and shoot for 400 every time.  But the current method of ensuring 300 before trying to get whatever extra we can, is definitely "broken".  As we saw today, 330 is not a score that helps bowler be more effective with scoreboard pressure.  Its a score that's gettable - even Sri Lanka with their weakass team beat our ass black and blue all the way back in 2017 to chase 330-odd.  

 

Teams that consider themselves strong batting units ought to regularly put up scores comfortably past 350.  India is not doing it, because it doesn't aim for it.  That's the problem.  A major re-alignment of the batting method for the first 38 overs is overdue.  One that demands selfless team-first approach from the top order batsmen, instead of allowing them to camouflage their pursuit of individual glory in the name of 'setting up platform' for the team.

it's selfishness to play for avgs of 50. we may have people with avgs > 45 but the likes of buttler and roy are far more dangerous in the current era.

[Jay]

5 hours ago, sandeep said:

what an absolute dumb*** sample set.

 

Look at their track record over the last 3+ years.  They are scoring 200 in 30 overs regularly.  Batting first or second.  And every 10 games or so, they will have a collapse like they did in the previous game, and they will lose it.  But more often than not, their bulldozer style batting puts up wins, and big ones.  

 

 

India is not "marginally" ahead in terms of player resources - it is significantly ahead - but their results are not.  that's the problem. 

 

And nobody's saying we blindly imitate the England method - we don't play the game with 4 allrounders in the team.  We don't need to ape them and shoot for 400 every time.  But the current method of ensuring 300 before trying to get whatever extra we can, is definitely "broken".  As we saw today, 330 is not a score that helps bowler be more effective with scoreboard pressure.  Its a score that's gettable - even Sri Lanka with their weakass team beat our ass black and blue all the way back in 2017 to chase 330-odd.  

 

Teams that consider themselves strong batting units ought to regularly put up scores comfortably past 350.  India is not doing it, because it doesn't aim for it.  That's the problem.  A major re-alignment of the batting method for the first 38 overs is overdue.  One that demands selfless team-first approach from the top order batsmen, instead of allowing them to camouflage their pursuit of individual glory in the name of 'setting up platform' for the team.

Well blame the kaptan for that approach. It's all about him in general. He gets a say in mos discussions regarding team India particularly team selection. He is afraid of losing his spot in the team. 

 

Anyway most of us know who our best players are and what works in terms of combination. Kohli prioritizes seniority, picks his favourites and won't step down from captaincy either. 

 

It is what it is. 

[rkt.india]

Less than 5 rpo on a flat pitch at 30 over mark isn't an approach to be proud.

[GautiMaan]

15 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Less than 5 rpo on a flat pitch at 30 over mark isn't an approach to be proud.

Exactly no one is asking them to play as aggressively as Stokes and Bairstow did, but cant they at least match Sehwag-Sachin days, pathetic that these guys have taken our cricket backward rather than forward and the trophy cupboard reflects this accurately.

[Lone Wolf]

I mean the pitch was Absolute flat pan cake.  But the mindset seems to be to reach 300 somehow & anything over is bonus which is stupidity in India where outfields alone are ultra fast..  And Chasing is pretty easy these days.  380 was bare minimum here. 

[New guy]

7 hours ago, putrevus said:

Indian approach needs slight tweaking nothing major as most people seem to indicate. Guy like Pant could come in at number and express himself because there was solid foundation set. The problem is not India's batting approach, it is lack of sixth bowling option and spinners unable to do any sort of damage during middle overs.

 

How many scores of 330 plus plus have been chased by teams. India needs to look more wicket taking bowlers who can take wickets upfront and give spinners a chance to bowl to new batsmen. Bhuvi for all his control averages less than wicket per match.

 

 

How mamyy such pitches were there?  Bhuvi didn't even play for 2 years before this but he is the problem? 

 

4 per over in 30 overs is not solid foundation,its stupid selfish batting  which will cause you to lose 9 out of 10 matches and reason we win no cups

 

 

.imagine not winning a single  cup with  this approach and still  insisting everything is fine.

 

keep making excuses, as I said, at  this point you are just making a complete fool of yourself and every single person is laughing at you..

 

You are like the grandad in 18th century who keeps insisting that automobiles are just a new fad and we just need to keep feeding the horses more to make them stronger and  run faster 

Edited March 27, 2021 by New guy