India's ODI top order

[mancalledsting]

50 over WC not on the horizon for a while, time to rebuild. Especially since current lineup are bucking a 26 year trend of successful World Cup strategy i.e. every winning nation has had at least one explosive player in their top 3 since 1996. Based on this criteria, the current top 3 are not fit for task. Given their age and playing style, at least one of them has to be dropped immediately and substituted with an explosive top order player e.g. Kishan. 

[mancalledsting]

My suggested ODI batting lineup (on assumption that Rohit, Dhawan and Kohli will be too old come next 50 over World Cup:

Kishan

Pant

Gill

SKY
Iyer

Hardik

[IndianRenegade]

10 minutes ago, mancalledsting said:

My suggested ODI batting lineup (on assumption that Rohit, Dhawan and Kohli will be too old come next 50 over World Cup:

Kishan

Pant

Gill

SKY
Iyer

Hardik

Rohit & Kohli are definitely going to be around for the next WC.

[The Realist]

Ideally no more Dhawan and Rahul. 

New openers would be good

Rohit will struggle with fitness and hand-eye coordination may have gone by time of next WC

Kohli likewise will be in decline 

 

 

Edited March 28, 2021 by The Realist

[GeeGaw]

2 hours ago, mancalledsting said:

My suggested ODI batting lineup (on assumption that Rohit, Dhawan and Kohli will be too old come next 50 over World Cup:

Kishan

Pant

Gill

SKY
Iyer

Hardik

Opening with two lefties?  Bold strategy, Cotton.  Let’s see if it works out for them. 

[Majestic]

Rohit and Kohli are not going anywhere.

 

Dhawan is not as bad as people try to make him here. He gives a good attacking start most of the times. Replace him only if there is a proper replacement in Shaw or Kishan ready.

[Suhaan]

1 hour ago, Majestic said:

Replace him only if there is a proper replacement in Shaw or Kishan ready.

"Ready" without playing?These 3 never skip 1-2 games let alone a series for them to get ready

[Majestic]

21 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

"Ready" without playing?These 3 never skip 1-2 games let alone a series for them to get ready

Shaw played and he was part of IPL last year but he kept getting out in 1st over to inferior bowlers. So, he needs to sort out his issue to be ready. This IPL will be important for both.

 

Dhawan has done nothing wrong to be dropped. He batted well yesterday, scored at a good rate and is a reliable bat too in ODI formats.

[Suhaan]

1 minute ago, Majestic said:

Shaw played and he was part of IPL last year but he kept getting out in 1st over to inferior bowlers. So, he needs to sort out his issue to be ready. This IPL will be important for both.

 

Dhawan has done nothing wrong to be dropped. He batted well yesterday, scored at a good rate and is a reliable bat too in ODI formats.

I said skipping for few games,you need to groom next top 3,these guys won't stay forever,okay,Dhawan did well yesterday,Kohli did okay before and so did Rohit?They can rotate themselves to prepare newcomers,not saying all of them sit together to play a rookie 11

[Majestic]

2 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

I said skipping for few games,you need to groom next top 3,these guys won't stay forever,okay,Dhawan did well yesterday,Kohli did okay before and so did Rohit?They can rotate themselves to prepare newcomers,not saying all of them sit together to play a rookie 11

Yeah that should be done. 

[nevada]

8 hours ago, mancalledsting said:

My suggested ODI batting lineup (on assumption that Rohit, Dhawan and Kohli will be too old come next 50 over World Cup:

Kishan

Pant

Gill

SKY
Iyer

Hardik

I like Gill but I doubt he is a readymade solution for LOI format. That being said, I would like to see him given a few games to see how he does in ODIs,where the pressure to score is not immense like in T20s. 

[ShoonyaSifar]

Another crunch match where the top 3 left the team at 120/3 

 

But the good thing is the middle order in last few series has shown enough fight and courage to dispel the myth of the team being dependent on the top order.

 

If only the captain shed his ego of always batting at 3 and showing no flexibility at all. Another learning is for us to never again play the three seniors together in the 11

[Trichromatic]

9 hours ago, mancalledsting said:

My suggested ODI batting lineup (on assumption that Rohit, Dhawan and Kohli will be too old come next 50 over World Cup:

Kishan

Pant

Gill

SKY
Iyer

Hardik

 

34 is not considered too old for batsmen.

[RajBan]

9 hours ago, mancalledsting said:

My suggested ODI batting lineup (on assumption that Rohit, Dhawan and Kohli will be too old come next 50 over World Cup:

Kishan

Pant

Gill

SKY
Iyer

Hardik

One of Kohli or Rohit if not both will play no matter what unless there are injuries. Concern is Dhawan might sneak in as well, he will be 37.5 and does not have  same impact already that he used to have 5 years back. 

 

The other bigger concern is KL clearly getting motivated by the style of their senior and adopting a similar approach. We don't need that and he needs to be outright dropped if he thinks this is what he will doing for next 6-7 years.

 

Edited March 29, 2021 by RajBan

[RajBan]

1 hour ago, nevada said:

I like Gill but I doubt he is a readymade solution for LOI format. That being said, I would like to see him given a few games to see how he does in ODIs,where the pressure to score is not immense like in T20s. 

Gill is needed as the anchor at 3 when Kohli moves out. Right now in these kind of pitches he won't have any special impact.

[neel roy]

11 hours ago, mancalledsting said:

My suggested ODI batting lineup (on assumption that Rohit, Dhawan and Kohli will be too old come next 50 over World Cup:

Kishan

Pant

Gill

SKY
Iyer

Hardik

Rohit kohli will be old for 2027 but Dhawan will still be young

Edited March 29, 2021 by neel roy

[bowl_out]

Rohit and Kohli aren't going anywhere.. 

Dhawan is okay for ODIs as long as he plays like he did yesterday. He will continue to be in the scheme of things for the next 12 months and a call should be taken on him at that point for the 2023 WC.

 

The only thing is that they shouldn't play all three together.. Have a fourth player in the top 3 (Shaw/Gill/Padikkal) and play only two of Rohit/Kohli/Dhawan.. That way there is a back up that is ready with International experience if Dhawan experiences a further decline in the next 12 months.. and there is no rude shock before the 2023 WC.

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

 

34 is not considered too old for batsmen.

 

guys like morgan n warner wud be 36-37 , ppl react way to much here when someone crosses 30. Cricket shud be the criteria 

[Ankit_sharma03]

Rohit n Kohli are fine , dhawan is batting TBH but one of them has to go coz together they are affecting the tempo. One has to be changed but not for the age but for the change in strategy so the changes cant be mayank or gill , it has to be an impact player like shaw, kishen or pant

[prudent_kreeda]

Mark this  !  The  youngsters  will make all  the players to change the game sooner than later and game has also changed which will make our TM & selectors to go in that direction. Already things have started happening in T20 with the way Ishaan & SKY played . You cannot fool by striking at say 100-120 in T20  and score a 40 or fifty  for too long. Dhawan is out and if KL does this BS for too long ,he will be out  too.

  Goals to be set - 

1. Should be able to get minimum 330-350 in each innings in 50 overs and 180+ in T20 .

2. Should be able to attack spinners .

3. Get bowlers who can avoid getting clobbered either by taking wickets or being defensive .

4.  Get over Dew factor -  Practice as much possible with wet ball and control the yorkers  - may be using cross seam .

 

This is more important mile stone than scores of 17+ YOYO or 8+ in running. 

 

Find players and devise plans to acheive this.

 

  For T20

    - emphasis should be to have players who can get 20-30 each runs at 135-140  minimum rate . Need to find such players or existing players need to reach that strike rate .

    -  Look for pace bowlers who have  the ability to bowl Yorkers ( atleast 3 in an over ) and has very good pace  or someone who can bowl even 5 if has not much pace like nattu..

    -  Look for mystery spinner .

    -  Get 50+ in PP.

   

  For 50 overs ,  

 Its not good to have all batsmen who are dashers . You need players with experience to mix aggression with  some caution as per situation.  So there are 2 places which can be very productively used by seniors . I would always have Rohit & Virat in the team till 23 unless their form is bad. The positive is that one is fantastic in upping the ante once passes through initial phase and the other very good chaser who can also accelerate  later.

India actually can do better than England in 50 overs batting esp in chasing if they change their mindset how they play . They can be more consistent than ENG.

First they should be able to get 340-350 most of the time on a normal pitch . this should be the objective . 

The matches till WC23 should be used  to  identify players &  game plan to achieve this .  IF India can achieve this 7-8 times out of ten , we should have  very good chance of winning WC. 

Need to rework our strategy in first 30 overs - The target should be to reach 180  by 30 overs whether you loose 2 early wickets or not .  This is the bare minimum  . Every player should have this goal who plays in first 30 overs . If this is achieved , getting 140 runs in last 20 overs is not a difficult task .  Easily 340+ can be achieved . 

This should be the template .

Some idea which can be tested against ENG , NZ, AUS  who i see as real threats - 

1. Shifting of  batting position based on opposition bowlers and counter their plan .  For Eg. Using Hardik & Pant to play vs spinners and put pressure on them . If you have to win against ENG , score runs in PP vs Archer & Wood and attack spinners in the middle . They are not that good in death . If you can do that half the match won. 

2. The third MO batsmen against NZ, AUS, ENG should be a very good player of spin . I would  like to see SKY and GILL tested in MO. 

3. Against ENG better to have 1 spinner  and he should be someone who turn it both ways

 4.  Against  NZ, AUS can go for 2 spinners .

 5. Have 2 good death bowlers and minimum 4 genuine bowlers .

6. Attack certain bowlers in the middle overs  if have wickets in hand which makes other teams to use death bowlers in middle overs and weakens their death bowling .

 

 

 

Edited March 29, 2021 by prudent_kreeda