Ishant has equalled Zaheer Khan now in tests

[Lord]

2 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Ghar pe patta hi hain. We are not making green tops now. They still don't offer anything for pacers and Ishant also played many of those pattas since 2007. So their careers overlapped. Ishant too isn't great at home.

 

no there's more reverse with all the rough.Shami and Umesh exploit it well

 

Also they had nothing for spin too,so were invariably bowling more overs(though with runs on board)

[R!TTER]

12 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Since 2018, Ishant is averaging 19 with 77 wickets in 22 tests.

You keep bringing up this BS stat, you know how many players have avg less than him with the bowl due to insanely conducive bowling conditions?

View overall figures [change view] On continent Europe Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2018 Type of bowler (by style) pace bowler Qualifications wickets taken greater than or equal to 20 Ordered by bowling average (ascending) Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 12 of 12   First Previous   Return to query menu Cleared query menu Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns Overs Mdns Runs Wkts BBI BBM Ave Econ SR 5 10   Mohammad Abbas (PAK) 2018-2020 6 9 174.3 55 431 24 5/66 9/110 17.95 2.46 43.6 1 0   PJ Cummins (AUS) 2019-2019 5 10 211.0 61 569 29 4/32 7/103 19.62 2.69 43.6 0 0   CR Woakes (ENG) 2018-2020 13 25 320.4 61 970 45 6/17 6/51 21.55 3.02 42.7 2 0   JR Hazlewood (AUS) 2019-2019 4 8 161.2 43 437 20 5/30 9/115 21.85 2.70 48.4 1 0   SCJ Broad (ENG) 2018-2021 21 41 654.2 159 1958 89 6/31 10/67 22.00 2.99 44.1 2 1   I Sharma (INDIA) 2018-2021 7 13 216.2 54 588 26 5/51 6/97 22.61 2.71 49.9 1 0   JM Anderson (ENG) 2018-2021 17 32 562.4 157 1403 61 5/20 9/43 23.00 2.49 55.3 3 0   JJ Bumrah (INDIA) 2018-2021 6 12 250.4 57 677 26 5/64 9/110 26.03 2.70 57.8 2 0   JC Archer (ENG) 2019-2020 8 16 281.4 57 806 30 6/45 8/85 26.86 2.86 56.3 2 0   BA Stokes (ENG) 2018-2020 14 21 289.3 51 1001 36 4/40 6/88 27.80 3.45 48.2 0 0   SM Curran (ENG) 2018-2021 11 19 227.5 42 713 24 4/74 5/92 29.70 3.12 56.9 0 0   Mohammed Shami (INDIA) 2018-2021 8 15 278.2 47 937 27 4/57 6/108 34.70 3.36 61.8 0 0

Edited August 16, 2021 by R!TTER

[Majestic]

Good achievement for Ishant but Zaheer overall better.

 

Did it in 11 tests more and with no major support overseas. Ishant had 4-5 great bowlers supporting him.

[ShoonyaSifar]

8 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

2nd half? 

 

More like just 3 years. 

From Dec 2006 SA tour till the 2011 Aus tour, i.e for nearly 5 years, Zaheer IMO was only behind Steyn as a fast bowler. Took nearly 170  wickets in 40 tests.

 

Steyn was obviously leagues above the rest but Zaheer was ahead of Johnson, Lee, Siddle, Anderson, Ntini, Morkel and others. His bowling stats, despite that period seeing mostly pattas across the world barring exceptions was truly immense SR, wickets per test consistency were all excellent. All teams would win a test and then roll out pattas. At home, series vs Pakistan in 2007, vs Australia in 2008 and 2010, vs Eng in 2008, vs SL in 2009,0 vs NZ in 2010 - all these home series had so many roads. Zaheer would keep running in executing his superlative skills. 

 

The 2011 WC win was a just reward. Invariably changed matches with the old ball

[rkt.india]

5 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

You keep bringing up this BS stat, you know how many players have avg less than him with the bowl due to insanely conducive bowling conditions?

View overall figures [change view] On continent Europe http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2018 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif Type of bowler (by style) pace bowler http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif Qualifications wickets taken greater than or equal to 20 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif Ordered by bowling average (ascending) Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 12 of 12   http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/ciPhotoFirst-icon_13x13.gifFirst http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/ciPhotoPrev-disable-icon_13x13.gifPrevious Next http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/ciPhotoNext-disable.gif Last http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/ciPhotoLast-disable.gif http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/dblBakArwB.gifReturn to query menu http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/dblBakArwW.gifCleared query menu Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns Overs Mdns Runs Wkts BBI BBM Avehttp://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/blackArrowUp.gif Econ SR 5 10   Mohammad Abbas (PAK) 2018-2020 6 9 174.3 55 431 24 5/66 9/110 17.95 2.46 43.6 1 0 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif PJ Cummins (AUS) 2019-2019 5 10 211.0 61 569 29 4/32 7/103 19.62 2.69 43.6 0 0 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif CR Woakes (ENG) 2018-2020 13 25 320.4 61 970 45 6/17 6/51 21.55 3.02 42.7 2 0 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif JR Hazlewood (AUS) 2019-2019 4 8 161.2 43 437 20 5/30 9/115 21.85 2.70 48.4 1 0 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif SCJ Broad (ENG) 2018-2021 21 41 654.2 159 1958 89 6/31 10/67 22.00 2.99 44.1 2 1 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif I Sharma (INDIA) 2018-2021 7 13 216.2 54 588 26 5/51 6/97 22.61 2.71 49.9 1 0 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif JM Anderson (ENG) 2018-2021 17 32 562.4 157 1403 61 5/20 9/43 23.00 2.49 55.3 3 0 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif JJ Bumrah (INDIA) 2018-2021 6 12 250.4 57 677 26 5/64 9/110 26.03 2.70 57.8 2 0 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif JC Archer (ENG) 2019-2020 8 16 281.4 57 806 30 6/45 8/85 26.86 2.86 56.3 2 0 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif BA Stokes (ENG) 2018-2020 14 21 289.3 51 1001 36 4/40 6/88 27.80 3.45 48.2 0 0 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif SM Curran (ENG) 2018-2021 11 19 227.5 42 713 24 4/74 5/92 29.70 3.12 56.9 0 0 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif Mohammed Shami (INDIA) 2018-2021 8 15 278.2 47 937 27 4/57 6/108 34.70 3.36 61.8 0 0 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif

You can narrow the filter down even more for your convenience.

[AuxiliA]

Both of them have near identical career trajectories in tests. Zaheer was a much better white ball bowler. Although feel Ishant will surpass him in tests. 

[R!TTER]

Just now, rkt.india said:

You can narrow the filter down even more for your convenience.

Just like you did for 2018 onwards? Or is that fact not pretty obvious 

[maniac]

Most underrated and disrespected cricketer. Should be a hero instead of a villain. The guy who has admirably led a group of equally skilled bowlers and youngsters into a world class unit

[Lord]

6 minutes ago, maniac said:

Most underrated and disrespected cricketer. Should be a hero instead of a villain. The guy who has admirably led a group of equally skilled bowlers and youngsters into a world class unit

 

while sacrificing an assured place in the team for that

[goose]

1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

Since 2018, Ishant is averaging 19 with 77 wickets in 22 tests. He is much more reliable at this point than Zaheer ever was. Even at his best, Zaheer was a boundary machine because of his lack of fitness, could not sustain intensity for five days, one of the most overrated bowler in cricket history.

i never base my assessment of a player on statistics.

[ThirtyD.]

What an amazing turnaround from him! If there was one bowler whose career was not mishandled by BCCI it is Ishants. Thankfully they realized his worth in tests over ODIs and T20is. Hopefully Shami and Siraj are managed the same way now.
 

Bumrah however good he may be in all formats needs to be preserved for limited overs.

[sarcastic]

2 hours ago, R!TTER said:

Just like you did for 2018 onwards? Or is that fact not pretty obvious 

 

2 hours ago, rkt.india said:

You can narrow the filter down even more for your convenience.

 

Will both of you stop and look at the unfiltered stats for all pace bowlers from the beginning of 2018.
https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?bowling_pacespin=1;class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=bowling_average;qualmin1=20;qualval1=wickets;size=200;spanmin1=01+Jan+2018;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

 

His stats are impressive at 85 wickets @ 19.64 and S/R of 43.6 balls/wicket. But there are three bowlers better than him in the same period. Moreover, his team mate Umesh Yadav is not far behind.

 

I will say a career average of sub 25 with sub 50 S/R is what I will be satisfied from a pace bowler. Ishant certainly delivered in the last 3 years but not considering his entire career. He is far far from being that bowler who we would consider ideal. 

[goose]

chips in with another 2fer leaving it to someone else to get that 4fer or 5fer that actually wins you a test. every run scored counts in test cricket. the same is not true of wickets taken given 'someone' has to take them

[The Realist]

Both are average at best and that is being kind.

 

Khan was mediocre most of his career apart from a purple patch near the end. Fitness was lamentable with a tubby belly as gobbled all the pies and donuts while poor Mishra stared at empty buffet tables.

 

Pissant is crap, an imposter who only plays due to his friendships and spends more time on growing his hair than improving his bowling. The majority of his balls the batsmen don't have to play as are so wide and is by a country road the worst bowler in history to have played 100+ tests.

[Ankit_sharma03]

Both have had huge part of career as avg or below avg due to various reasons. 

Both their career got back on track due to county 

Both suffered due to lack of fast bowling culture. 

Ishant fitness has been pretty good ill say. 

Zak was india top bowler at his peak in two format. 

 

 

[maniac]

Ishant is actually an underrated odi bowler. Average T20 bowler. He had that unfortunate over to Faulkner but apart from that he is actually very tough to hit in odis.

 

In T20’s he is kind of like Siraj. On good pitches will run  through top order but will struggle on flat pitches and small T20 boundaries.

 

Zak was always a good Odi bowler, one of the best odi bowlers of the 2000’s era   , average t20 bowler (did he ever play a WT20???) and in tests was good but not a guy who could run through sides but a guy who would be lethal with top order and then get some reverse but keep things tight when other maverick bowlers like Ishant,Sreeshanth,RP,Irfan are on song.

 

Ishant has the capability to run through line ups, Zak was always chip away at the wickets type.

 

Overall I would put zak slightly ahead based on loi exploits added. Tests they both are same level With Ishant slightly ahead.

Edited August 16, 2021 by maniac

[Ankit_sharma03]

3 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Ishant was MOS against Australia at home in 2008 that Aus team was pretty good. He was seriously good early on then lost his way. Zak also hasn't played much against Australia in Australia, was always injured. Played just one drawn test in 2003. 

In that same 2008 series zak bolwed pretty well and had 2-3 wkts less only to ishant. They both bowled so well as a pair ...aisa nahin ki zak did nothing if ishant had some 14-15,  zak had 11-12 in same series

 

The next time aus came to india in 2010 zak was our highest wkt taker i think some 12-13 and ishant cudnt even pick more then 4-5 wkts 

 

Zak had his fitness issues which is when he cudnt play in aus but when he did he took wkts. (Peak aus in australia)

2003 gabba fifer 

2007 melbourne - 4wkt haul.

third time he toured he was done n dusted.  Even laxman looked **** in australia at his end

 

His fitness was an issue doesnt mean he didnt knew how to take wkts in australia 

 

He was our best bowler on 2002 nz tour then won us a series in eng 2007.

 

He had his own challenge mostly due to fitness (which everyone was struggling with - irfan, nehra, balaji) n lack of understanding which is why he n nehra use to play games after just passing fitness test without checking their match fitness.

 

 

 

 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

5 minutes ago, maniac said:

Ishant is actually an underrated odi bowler. Average T20 bowler. He had that unfortunate over to Faulkner but apart from that he is actually very tough to hit in odis.

 

In T20’s he is kind of like Siraj. On good pitches will run  through top order but will struggle on flat pitches and small T20 boundaries.

 

Siraj has massively improved 

 

Ishant lacked death bowling n variation with which u cant survive long in modern cricket. 

He wud good in intial over but end men sab level ho jata. Which is why faulkner smashed him in death. Everyone gets a beating in LOI even bhuvi has had some bad ones but he has tools .

 

He played most of international white ball in his struggling phase thought but even if he plays today he ll have a lot of off days ....a lot. 

 

I will pick him over guys like umesh , aaron or those days of vinay kumar, dinda but isnt much of an achievement. With this form he may have done better around 2013 specially when we were struggling to find bowlers but not that much. 

He was damn good when he burst on the scene but then it changed too much. Today LOI is very hard for bowlers. 

 

Its really hard to be a LOI bowler now, guys like archer, bumrah, starc are special bowler. Even cummins hasnt had same success in LOI specially t20 coz of that end phase. 

 

 jab time sahi tha tab form nahin aur aaj uski type ki bowling ka time nahin. 

 

[ShoonyaSifar]

13 hours ago, maniac said:

Most underrated and disrespected cricketer. Should be a hero instead of a villain. The guy who has admirably led a group of equally skilled bowlers and youngsters into a world class unit

Disrespected and underrated? Is that why he played 100+ tests despite averaging 38-39 half way through his career?

[Adamant]

As of now Ishant is a better bowler than Zaheer ever was, his last 5 years record is insane