Is this the end of Ashwin?

[vvvslaxman]

7 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

So if we won without him or Jaddu. Then what's the fuss? Why it has been made such a big issue. People always want to see negative stuff. Ashwin not playing overseas isn't a big issue.

 

Magical deliveries and variations only work when there is turn from  pitch. This pitch even on last day had no spin. 

 

Not sure what match you watched. Lot of rough out there. Ashwin can turn the ball both ways.   He would have definitely exploited it.  If not for other tests he should have picked him for this test. INdia won without Shami too. Siraj was not needed at all. He did nothing in this match except one good spell. 1 for 86 plus a dropped catch.. 

[NameGoesHere]

On the one had (exhibit one) we have a player who hasn’t performed to expectations for the better part of two years.  On the other hand we have a player at the peak of his game (exhibit two). 
 

If the same standard were being applied equally the right question should have been - is this the end of Kohli’s career (exhibit one)?

 

But this isn’t about being fair.  This is international cricket and for various reasons Ashwin is under the pump.  Still, I’d say it isn’t over by a long shot, unless he gets badly injured or quits (and he doesn’t seem the quitting kind).

 

This is a world class bowler at his peak.  He’s not going away yet.

 

.  

Edited September 7, 2021 by NameGoesHere

[urbestfriend]

5 hours ago, rkt.india said:

So if we won without him or Jaddu. Then what's the fuss? Why it has been made such a big issue. People always want to see negative stuff. Ashwin not playing overseas isn't a big issue.

 

Magical deliveries and variations only work when there is turn from  pitch. This pitch even on last day had no spin. 

 

You dont win or lose a game with the inclusion or exclusion of one player in a game of 11 most of the time...India won the Aus series without Kohli also and probably would've won here without Kohli.. Whats being discussed here is,  is it fair to drop a player who is in his peak for 4 successive test match when he should be in the starting lineup as 5th  after Rohit, Kohli, Bhumrah and Shami..

[Gollum]

Sure Ashwin missing out the whole series is surprising. But there wouldn't have been this much noise, controversy, conspiracy theories etc. if TM had shown accountability when it came to batting unit. 36 ao, home series flop, WTC F day 6 surrender, Headingley double collapse, getting bailed out by lower order so many times irrespective of conditions.

 

Top 7 went unchanged this series, despite MO struggles, despite Rahane being a net negative and worse with the bat than Shami, Bumrah. Look at someone like Rahane being backed so much, contrast that to how TM treated Ashwin....one of the MVPs in Aus, MOS at home against Eng, best Indian player in WTC F. Fans aren't stupid, of course they are going to make connections, question the team policy, come up with theories etc. 

 

I still maintain, if we had made even a couple of changes in the MO, it would have been easier to come up with logical theories to explain the absence of Ashwin. Also remember, Kohli blamed bowlers for third test defeat, this despite 78 ao and 63/8.....same bowlers who have carried this team since 2015 Lanka. More than Ashwin, there is a kind of caste system in Indian test team where bowlers are accorded lower status and always in the firing line, today it is Ashwin, tomorrow it could be Bumrah or Shami, who knows? Horses for courses or whatever **** they come up with exclusively for bowlers, but batsmen can go unquestioned despite doing zilch for 3 years...in Rahane's case since 2016 Eng home series. 

Edited September 7, 2021 by Gollum

[urbestfriend]

I think Ashwin gave an interview some times back, he is expected to take fifer every time he plays for India , else he will be dropped. Clearly there seems to be some bad blood between Kohli and him..Most probably since the days of Kumble, where Kumble promoted Ashwin heavily which could've caused the heartburn in Kohli.. Also when we won in Australia, Ashwin's youtube channel made it look like it was the team work and Kohli's absense helped to gel as a team, so Kohli wanted this opportunity to take revenge..

TO answer OP, his indian test career aborad is almost over. Jaddu will always play ahead of him, and Jaddu is not injury prone, so Ashwin's chances are more or less limited. In Indian dustbowls, he will start but I dont know whether he will have the motivation now when he plays after huge gaps..Good thing is he has a youtube channel and he will be very insightful in commentary, so he should play Ranji, County and IPL, and see to prolong his career whenever India plays home...Also He shoul stay away from touring abroad, as it is demotivating him to sit out for such senior player...I dont know if senior players toured abroad was never selected even for a match in the past for India where seniority rules..

[Serpico]

I don't think he'll retire for next 3 years atleast. All the people who are suggesting him to retire to protect his honour or whatever are getting carried away with emotion. He clearly enjoys staying with team, don't mind the attention he gets even when he's on bench, from press and commies, why quit now?

 

Teams are worried about Indian pace attack now, we'll be getting lots of flat tracks going forward. Kohli changes his mind impulsively anyway. He's supposed to open in t20s earlier this year and then changes his mind a couple of months later. He'll look at Ashwin again if we fail on a flatter track

 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

7 hours ago, Sean Bradley said:

Ashwin will play in South African knowing how poor the current crop of Saffers are against the spin. On current form of Rahane, Ashwin should play at No. 5, he wouldn't do a worse Job than Rahane. 

naa they wont play him in SA and its just a fragile that wont test our bowling so 4 seamers will continue 

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 hour ago, urbestfriend said:

, he is expected to take fifer every time he plays for India , else he will be dropped. Clearly there seems to be some bad blood between Kohli and him..

their isnt bad blood but yea he expectation overseas from him  has been different from others. IF he doesnt perform one game he ll be dropped. Rest everyone can have long struggles but ashwin cant

 

[Khota]

No.

[The Realist]

Unlikely. Ashwin still has some plenty to contribute plus has too large a profile too go quietly or for Kohli to quietly push him aside.

 

Michel Vaughan for example was ridiculing Kohli for ignoring Ashwin all series. 

 

If anything Kohli is coming to the end of his career, hand-eye coordination going and unable to play any large innings of substance apart from the odd 40 or 50 (Ashwin has scored more centuries than Kohli in last 3 years) 

[putrevus]

Kohli is right in dropping Ashwin so far in this series. Playing with just three fast bowlers is recipe for disaster. You have to play four fast bowlers.Ashwin will have to wait for his turn it is that simple.

[Lord]

12 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Kohli is right in dropping Ashwin so far in this series. Playing with just three fast bowlers is recipe for disaster. You have to play four fast bowlers.Ashwin will have to wait for his turn it is that simple.

 

with Thakur batting emerging,we can bat him at 7 and play 4 pacers+ Ashwin

[putrevus]

14 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

with Thakur batting emerging,we can bat him at 7 and play 4 pacers+ Ashwin

Thakur's sample size is too small. Kohli's bowlers have taken 20 wickets in all three macthes India should have won. Would Ashwin have won India Leeds test? Answer is no, so why is this even a debate.

[Lord]

4 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Thakur's sample size is too small. Kohli's bowlers have taken 20 wickets in all three macthes India should have won. Would Ashwin have won India Leeds test? Answer is no, so why is this even a debate.

 

no bowler can win the game with 78 & 278

 

Bowling wise Ashwin in WTC was better than all our 4th pacers so far

 

Thakur,atleast in short term, can be given the no. 7 spot. It'll increase bowling potency while not affecting batting much

[New guy]

50 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Kohli is right in dropping Ashwin so far in this series. Playing with just three fast bowlers is recipe for disaster. You have to play four fast bowlers.Ashwin will have to wait for his turn it is that simple.

Bullshit, ashwin could have easily taken jadejas place. Thakur is now fulfilling the batting all rounder role

 

But then again kohli would have gone with 11 batsmen and you would still die defending that, so that point is moot 

Edited September 7, 2021 by New guy

[G_B_]

4 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

no bowler can win the game with 78 & 278

 

Bowling wise Ashwin in WTC was better than all our 4th pacers so far

 

Thakur,atleast in short term, can be given the no. 7 spot. It'll increase bowling potency while not affecting batting much

 

Keep thakur at 8.

 

If rahane was even regularly scoring 30 ashwin could have been considered at 7.

 

Problem is rahane is scoring barely 10 in the test across innings which means jaddus ability to stay at the crease and 10 to 15 extra runs is valuable. 

 

 

[putrevus]

8 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

no bowler can win the game with 78 & 278

 

Bowling wise Ashwin in WTC was better than all our 4th pacers so far

 

Thakur,atleast in short term, can be given the no. 7 spot. It'll increase bowling potency while not affecting batting much

Why are we in rush to include Ashwin then? What is he going to do?

Edited September 7, 2021 by putrevus

[Lord]

1 minute ago, G_B_ said:

 

Keep thakur at 8.

 

If rahane was even regularly scoring 30 ashwin could have been considered at 7.

 

Problem is rahane is scoring barely 10 in the test across innings which means jaddus ability to stay at the crease and 10 to 15 extra runs is valuable. 

 

 

 

Thakur looks better bat in SENA than Ashwin

[Lord]

Just now, putrevus said:

Why are we in rush to include Ashwin then? What is going to do?

 

Improve bowling

 

I'm not even asking him for a pacer.Just bat Thakur at 7

[jalebi_bhai]

I think he's now primarily a sub-continent specialist, not that he doesn't have the skills to bowl in SENA. His recent record in SENA is quite good.

 

What works in favour of Jadeja is that he brings another LHB option to our line up and is a gun fielder. Batting wise, they're equally good and bowling wise Ashwin is ATM a shade better in SENA.