Would you take Rizwan or Pant?

[Ankit_sharma03]

Pant - when he hits his peak it ll be a show like u have never seen before

[Lord]

Make Rizwan bat at 5 and see the magic.

 

Opening while chasing 140-150 is nothing extraordinary

[Ankit_sharma03]

2 diff kind of players- one can win u 140-160 games other can win u impossible games........u decide

ull get many 140-160 kind of players like iyer kinds but runaway matchwinners are rare which is what guys like pandya, pant, sky, kishen are 

[IndianRenegade]

6 hours ago, Try_Ball said:

If Paine didn't miss that stumping , what would you say?  We won the series because of Pant or Paine ?

 

Thats how it goes, just because Aus missed a chance you can't take away his achievements

 

Quote

Also,  If you keep reminding yourself of that one series then aren't you disregarding his non sensical batting since then ?  His whole IPL , England series are not accounted for ?

Also,  If Pak wins this T20 or makes it to the final and Rizwan plays a big role - Isn't that bigger than Aus series win? 

Yes he has had abad series or two. The quality of bowling he was facing in Aus is much more difficult that what India dished out.

 

May be Rizwan wins them the T20 WC, may be he doesn't. We can review the may be's after it happens.

[Lone Wolf]

They are two different kind of players.  I'll take both Rizwan & Pant in test cricket.  I won't play Rizwan in India & won't play Pant in England & NZ. 

In T20 cricket they bat at different positions. 

[Singh bling]

Rizwan in Loi"s . Pant still has to show One good innings in must win game . I am seeing another choker in Pant in Loi's . 

[dilliboy]

Pant has a decent record in ODIs and a very good one in Tests.. In the first t20 that wasn't brainless batting. He was going after the leggie which is a higher % shot for him. Sure on few days it won't come off, but you need someone yoplay risky shots to post mammoth totals. Without Pant's innings, India would have struggled to reach 130

[dilliboy]

Kishan was horrendously out of form the entire IPL until the last 2 matches and was even dropped by MI and now people want him over Pant. Pant scored 400 + runs batting at 4 or lower in the IPL. It's the easiest to bat in T20 in the top of the order.. Give Pant a chance at opening and you'll see huge scores. But we don't have anyone who can accelerate in the middle overs like him

[dilliboy]

1 hour ago, Singh bling said:

Rizwan in Loi"s . Pant still has to show One good innings in must win game . I am seeing another choker in Pant in Loi's . 

Pant is anything but a choker..probably the most clutch player we have. Match winning innings in deciding test matches along with a great record in IPL knockouts. 

[speedheat]

Rizwan over hack like pant anyday.

[Sean Bradley]

Rizwan in ODIs Pant in Test.

[ShoonyaSifar]

2 hours ago, Singh bling said:

Rizwan in Loi"s . Pant still has to show One good innings in must win game . I am seeing another choker in Pant in Loi's . 

Sorry, did you watch the England ODIs in India?

 

BTW what exactly has Rizwan done in ODIs?

[Try_Ball]

6 hours ago, Lord said:

Make Rizwan bat at 5 and see the magic.

 

Opening while chasing 140-150 is nothing extraordinary

 

Rizwan would still show you proper cricketing shots I believe even playing at number 5 and at number 5 he is more likely to sensibly take you over the line more often than Pant .... It's not the batting position but your ability to bat,

if MSD can show the magic at 5,  why pant can't? 

Also, it isn't about chasing, are you Implying if Pakistan was to bat first then Rizwan wouldn't bat as good? 

Lastly, pant's batting skills are perhaps the reason he isn't sent up the order and Rizwan is. 

Edited October 27, 2021 by Try_Ball

[Lord]

6 minutes ago, Try_Ball said:

 

Rizwan would still show you proper cricketing shots I believe even playing at number 5 and at number 5 he is more likely to sensibly take you over the line more often than Pant .... It's not the batting position but your ability to bat,

if MSD can show the magic at 5,  why pant can't? 

Also, it isn't about chasing, are you Implying if Pakistan was to bat first then Rizwan wouldn't bat as good? 

Lastly, pant's batting skills are perhaps the reason he isn't sent up the order and Rizwan is. 

 

Sensible batting and proper cricketing shots arent enough in middle order,you need to accelerate.

 

MSD was very average in T20Is

 

Rizwan is opening because he failed down the order in both ODI and T20I.

 

Batting first Rizwan would help you set 160 scores nothing more.In England in last T20 this year,he batted through the innings yet Pak ended up on 150. and there were no early wickets even

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/pakistan-tour-of-england-2021-1239529/england-vs-pakistan-3rd-t20i-1239542/full-scorecard

 

 

[ShoonyaSifar]

15 minutes ago, Try_Ball said:

 

Rizwan would still show you proper cricketing shots I believe even playing at number 5 and at number 5 he is more likely to sensibly take you over the line more often than Pant .... It's not the batting position but your ability to bat,

if MSD can show the magic at 5,  why pant can't? 

Also, it isn't about chasing, are you Implying if Pakistan was to bat first then Rizwan wouldn't bat as good? 

Lastly, pant's batting skills are perhaps the reason he isn't sent up the order and Rizwan is. 

Not really. Rizwan doesn't compete against LOI legends like Rohit and Kohli. He competes against Fakar Zaman, Shan Masood, Imam Ul Haq and Ahmed Shehzad.

 

Pant has a much higher ceiling than Rizwan and hence he gets criticised for 39(30) whereas Rizwan is being hailed despite a 33(34). That's the difference. He akready is better than Rizwan in tests and ODIs, matter of time before he moves ahead of him in T20Is as well.

[vvvslaxman]

7 hours ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

From Rizwan you have brought in Gilchrist, now moved to Dhoni!

 

On Pant's T20 SR, of course it is poor. He was messed up by the TM in 2018-20getting no support at all, being publicly rebuked by the captain, coach, batting coach, chairman of selection committee. No wonder he was poor in the LOIs. Has only had a revival since the Australia tour. 

 

Now back to Rizwan, how did the 'intent to rotate strike' help him when he was 38*(34) and 33(34)?

 

Rizwan's overall T20 SR is 126, Pant's is 146. That tells you everything about both of them as batsmen. Once he's settled in, Pant will make Rizwan look like an average batsman (may even happen in this WC itself).

 

Pant's overall T20 strike rate is 146? Don't include IPL strike rates. Let us just focus on internationals. Rizwan is probably punching above the weight. May be does well only on these type of surfaces. He may have inadequacies. But he is their most reliable batsman. He bails them out consistently. Pant has not done much in T20. DK for all his short fuse approach has won two games on his own. 

 

 

In the matches Pant has played India's average run rate is 8.59 Runs per over. Pant's run rate in those matches per over is 7.38.  At his pace you get to 146 on an average. India scores 171 runs.  

 

If you think Pant has met the expectations then you have a very low expectation.

[ShoonyaSifar]

34 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Pant's overall T20 strike rate is 146? Don't include IPL strike rates. Let us just focus on internationals. Rizwan is probably punching above the weight. May be does well only on these type of surfaces. He may have inadequacies. But he is their most reliable batsman. He bails them out consistently. Pant has not done much in T20. DK for all his short fuse approach has won two games on his own. 

 

 

In the matches Pant has played India's average run rate is 8.59 Runs per over. Pant's run rate in those matches per over is 7.38.  At his pace you get to 146 on an average. India scores 171 runs.  

 

If you think Pant has met the expectations then you have a very low expectation.

Now you bring in DK! DK won 2 matches after playing T20s for what, 11-12 years? Basically yku want Pant to do every that Rizwan, Gilchrist, Dhoni, DK have done. Anyone else left? 

 

On meeting expectations, read what I wrote - he's been poor in T20Is. His T20 record suggests (even without IPL, just domestic T20 record, has a 30 ball T20 100) once he settles in his role, he will be much better batsman than Rizwan.

 

Now back to Rizwan again. 38*(34) at one stage, then 33(34) - how did the 'intent to rotate strike' (your words not mine) help him?

[johncena97]

15 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

.

 

[mishra]

What sort of comparison is this. Pant has some solid overseas trips and innings in tests. I don’t recall any Pakistani player apart from Babar having such inning.So Couple of t20 innings is not going to change anything.

 

Also India plays way too much cricket compared to anyone. If any of these Pakistani players even play 70% of matches Indian cricketers play, considering the facility PCB has , they won’t even last couple of years.

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, ShoonyaSifar said:

Now you bring in DK! DK won 2 matches after playing T20s for what, 11-12 years? Basically yku want Pant to do every that Rizwan, Gilchrist, Dhoni, DK have done. Anyone else left? 

 

On meeting expectations, read what I wrote - he's been poor in T20Is. His T20 record suggests (even without IPL, just domestic T20 record, has a 30 ball T20 100) once he settles in his role, he will be much better batsman than Rizwan.

 

Now back to Rizwan again. 38*(34) at one stage, then 33(34) - how did the 'intent to rotate strike' (your words not mine) help him?

 

Well for one thing keep yourself busy with singles prevent you from getting stuck at one end. Getting stuck one end is one reason why Pant throws his wicket away. It is not that complicated. Since you say Pant has higher ceiling, shouldn't he be improving in all areas including rotating the strike?  I am not going to pick Rizwan over Pant. Pant opening the batting is the best way to get the best out of him. Who knows he may turn out to be like Bairstow, Roy, Rohit.  High risk players should be sent up the order to get the best out. Even they get out it is just one wicket.