India 179-178

[deathmonger]

8 hours ago, Gollum said:

Aus still great but marginally down from 2000s, still a beast in ICC events. 

 

Eng way better than 90s  and early 00s self, behind 2008-12 team, but good.

 

NZ golden generation, all time NZ XI will have at least 6 players from post 2010 teams

 

RSA down but not out, still scary team in their home conditions. No RSA before 1992, people should remember.

 

WI around the same level for last 20 years, but this squad has more committed players.

 

SL like in late 80s and early 90s, but better overseas because of quicks. Were in golden phase till around 2017-18 but many talented youngsters couldn't sustain.

 

Pak declined in last 5 years, but had one of their strongest ever teams from 2012 till 2017-18 when prime/peak Misbah, Younis, Azhar Ali, Sarfraz, Yasir Shah etc. were still around. 

 

India much better now, ask other fanbases. 

 

Competition has been same for last half a century at least, only that we were piss poor in 80s and 90s and hence tend to overrate those eras. People don't know how weak Aussies were in 80s, or how NZ was just one man army.....if 80s had WI, Pak, Eng this era has Ind, Aus, NZ, Eng. 

80s Eng was also poor.

 

80s WI was best, Pak 2nd, Hadlee NZ 3rd

[deathmonger]

37 minutes ago, BlueBlood said:

 

The issue here is England, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa were unbeatable at home. Since T20 leagues have come, most of their focus has gone to that and other sports.

 

Even Sri Lanka gave England at home a run for their money recently until they cheated with ball change. 

 

Same with Pakistan which came pretty close to beating at home in England.

 

It's sad these days that any sort of honesty is denigrated as anti-patriotic.

 

The fact remains that other teams have regressed. During Shane Bond and Chris Cairns era, New Zealand were unbeatable at home except against ATG Australia team. Now even Afghanistan on their day can beat NZ at home.

 

Same could be said of South Africa. They have regressed badly over the past decade once Steyn, Kallis etc. Retired.

 

It's sad we have a revisionist history where old legends like Kumble who punched way above their weight are forgotten for the likes of Ashwin/Jadeja who have it way too easy with doctored home pitches and inferior oppositions playing against them.

 

The same Ashwin was trying to bowl leg spin once Kuldeep and Chahal were wrecking havoc. Kumble never had to do that. People forget history soo easily.

 

This is why BCCI can keep milking money as people have such short term memory and any criticism is hated on as anti patriotic.

Lol.

 

Eng has lost one home series since 2014.

 

Yeah, Eng was "unbeatable" at home during the 80s,90s,00s lol.

 

Even SA lost at home to England and Aus quite often even during glory days.

 

NZ were also poor at home during 90s-00s. "Shane Bond era" lasted like 2-3 years lol.

 

They are still very strong at home, losing only to Aus in the last 10-12 years. Let Afghanistan win a test then we'll say.

 

Australia still has lost only the two India series in the past few years.

 

There is no "inferior" opposition. It is India which has become better.

 

Like I said the view is very different from the top than in the middle.

 

This is just nostalgia speaking. India had a FEW good players back in the day so their halo effect is magnified. Players like Umesh, Dhawan, Chahal who are decentish would have had the same halo effect if they played back in the day.

 

Ashwin HAD Chahal/Kuldeep to wreck havoc. Kumble never did.

 

 

[Gollum]

2 hours ago, BlueBlood said:

It's sad these days that any sort of honesty is denigrated as anti-patriotic.

Buddy, you have a point.

 

But doing disappearing act (or worse.....feeling sad/angry/frustrated) when India does well in something, making appearances to gloat when India fails at something, downplaying Indian achievers whilst overrating non-Indians. What do you call that? Honesty or patriotism? 

 

Anyway carry on, but please don't pass judgement on other posters here, most of who come here to pass time. 

Edited September 23, 2024 by Gollum

[Gollum]

Shane Bond played 18 tests in all, just a couple of tests in SC (Lanka) where he made zero impact.....sure he had an era. 

[deathmonger]

9 minutes ago, BlueBlood said:

Again, Ashwin who was trying to bowl legspin to "keep up" is now suddenly considered ATG above Kumble. 

 

What changed is not Ashwin getting 10x better. It's the teams have regressed with England relying on Root and Australia on Smith once Warner regressed.

 

You cannot compare to the competition Kumble faced.

 

The only real ATG in the team today is Bumrah. Had he existed during Kumble era, it would have made a huge difference. Especially as our batting was super strong.

 

But people elevate guys like Ashwin/Jadeja who went missing in entire SENA tournaments during Dhoni era. Are we to believe these guys suddenly became 10x better now in the final stages of their career compared to their prime years?

 

It's simple other teams have greatly regressed to the point where any team in the top 5 can beat England or Aus at home now if they play to their potential and handle pressure situations.

 

It was never the case pre-IPL and T20 hype. Look at WI, SA, Aus, NZ etc. Players playing all types of T20 leagues. No way they have the energy or interest to succeed in tests. 

 

This is just the case with cricket now unfortunately. Even last T20 WC we didn't even get a chance to play against WI, New Zealand, Sri Lanka just to fit in a potential semi clash against Pakistan.

 

This type of stuff is where the underlying problem is. The old legends didn't have this kind of advantage stacked in their favor. 

Last T20 WC we defeated Aus, Eng, SA in a row. NZ, WI, SL are way inferior to them lol.

 

England during Kumble's time sucked. This England is way better (if not the 09-12 team which Kumble didn't face either).

 

NZ, Bang are also way stronger than during Kumble's time.

 

Yeah, Ashwin/Jadeja didn't become better SUDDENLY, but they became better as cricketers are wont to do. Ashwin-Jadeja were 25/27 when Dhoni retired.

 

They were NOT in their PRIME during Dhoni era. Their PRIME was in the Kohli era.

 

Post that they have become better and both contributed to the two wins in Aus in 18/20.

 

Any team in the top 5 can beat England/Aus at home - Only Ind has won a series in Aus in the last 8 years and NZ in the last 10 years. There have been matches won/series drawn but that was there in Kumble's period too (Aus was way stronger but Eng dropped plenty of home series that time).

 

 

[putrevus]

Some morons just have no clue.What great competition Kumble faced and did well which Ashwin did not do .

 

Ashwin is 100 times better bowler than Kumble ever was plus the batting puts Ashwin in a stratosphere which Kumble does not belong.

 

Kumble was a medium pacer disguised as a leg spinner who got carted around in almost every country.He was feeding on uneven wickets in home pitches.

 

Ashwin bowling leg spin is a tribute to Ashwin trying to do something to pickup wickets. Kumble bowled seam up in Bangalore test in 2007 against Pakistan.

 

 

These morons who are talking about Kumble are sounding exactly like some older idiots few years ago who were talking up the spin quartet .

 

Ashwin and Jadeja were chief Architects for India winning CT 2013.

 

What great things Kumble did in SENA again in any format.

 

Edited September 24, 2024 by putrevus

[Vilander]

Congrats everyone 

 

179-178 Win-Loss record for India in their 92-year old Test cricket journey. This is the first time they have had the number of wins exceeding the number of defeats. In their 580th Test, India became the seventh team to achieve the feat after Australia (Inaugural Test), Afghanistan (third Test), Pakistan (16th), England (23rd), West Indies (99th), and South Africa (340th). New Zealand, Sri Lanka, Zimbabwe, Bangladesh, & Ireland are yet to achieve the feat.

 

 

[StraightDrive26]

On 9/23/2024 at 6:56 AM, BlueBlood said:

Funny how the record post 2013 coincided with the downfall of teams like Pakistan, Sri Lanka, West Indies and Zimbabwe to minnow level status.

 

These teams especially at home were impossible to beat in the 80's and 90's. Now they are even losing vs. Bangladesh.

 

It's hilarious people forget this and talk all kinds of stats. 

 

It's obvious cricket is a dying sport and the last remnants of support is in India which has the best talent and money. Nothing changes this dynamic and it's really unfortunate but the truth.

Sorry Pakistan was never unbeatable at home even in the 90's. They actually lost a series to Zimbabwe at home in the 90's. They did not win any series against Australia, home or away. Don't think they won anything against SA as well. Their golden era was in their adopted home of UAE where they were unbeatable for a while due to Ajmal and Yasir Shah. Zimbabwe were a very good ODI side but were never a dominant Test cricket nation. SL in the 90's became a very good ODI side but did not win anything in Tests and were mostly associated with flat tracks at home with their batters piling on the runs. Their golden run also started after 2003 when they had Dilshan, Sanga, Mahela etc along with Murali, Mendis etc as spinners. West Indies downfall started in 1995, India were still a mediocre team post that and even lost to WI in 2 series after that. WI consistently lost to Australia and SA post that close home defeat against Australia in 1994/95. So not sure where you are getting these information from. 

[AuxiliA]

A good positive thread totally derailed by Thinblood.

[zen]

Congrats! … this is probably the first time that India has more test wins than losses in its history. 
 

Ind has been playing tests since 1931 so it took 90+ years for wins to go past losses. This might be the longest or slowest for a major test playing nation. 
 

A silver lining is that if loses go past wins, it won’t take 90+ years for wins to again go past losses. 

[Gollum]

9 hours ago, AuxiliA said:

A good positive thread totally derailed by Thinblood.

True. Sick and tired of posters who come here sporadically just to rant or spread negativity. Usually such folks would come when we lost, but now even in positive threads. Nothing substantial to add, same old ranting, whining, crying, complaining. 

[deathmonger]

1 hour ago, Gollum said:

True. Sick and tired of posters who come here sporadically just to rant or spread negativity. Usually such folks would come when we lost, but now even in positive threads. Nothing substantial to add, same old ranting, whining, crying, complaining. 

Also I think it stems from a sense of loss.

 

The poor, weak India of their childhood is being erased. That period will mean nothing in the long history of India. A mere footnote as the "post-independence" years.

 

And in a way, it is a erasure of them too. That they never got to see the glory years.

 

No one talks about Korean pop culture pre late 90s. No one talks about American pop culture pre 20th century (US was independent in the late 1700s).

 

Thing is all of current Indian music, movies, sports etc will be relegated to a footnote and historical curio when the actual good times begin (2050s-2060s).

 

I'm sure people from all countries face that. Maybe Koreans who grew up in the 50s and 60s or Chinese who grew up in the 70s and 80s do too.

 

 

Edited September 25, 2024 by deathmonger

[Gollum]

38 minutes ago, deathmonger said:

Also I think it stems from a sense of loss.

 

The poor, weak India of their childhood is being erased. That period will mean nothing in the long history of India. A mere footnote as the "post-independence" years.

 

And in a way, it is a erasure of them too. That they never got to see the glory years.

 

No one talks about Korean pop culture pre late 90s. No one talks about American pop culture pre 20th century (US was independent in the late 1700s).

 

Thing is all of current Indian music, movies, sports etc will be relegated to a footnote and historical curio when the actual good times begin (2050s-2060s).

 

I'm sure people from all countries face that. Maybe Koreans who grew up in the 50s and 60s or Chinese who grew up in the 70s and 80s do too.

 

 

Such posters don't add any value to this forum. On one hand @kron gets banned for getting a a bit carried away in one of the threads, OTOH you have these repeat offenders getting a free run to stink up this place ever so often. Not even sure if these are Indians or Pook trolls, maybe latter have gotten more subtle.

 

Double standards much @Austin 3:!6 @Lord @Trichromatic

[StraightDrive26]

6 hours ago, BlueBlood said:

 

LOL. Pakistan lost a series to Zimbabwe at home because Zimbabwe were a good side. Similar to present day New Zealand in the 90's. Andy Flower, Grant Flower, Heath Streak these were world class players and fielders.

 

How easily fans forget that Pakistan was a tough competition for India to beat when Wasim, Waqar, Saqlain were there. It wasn't until Sehwag dominated them that things changed.

 

The regression of Pakistan, Zimbabwe, SL, SA, NZ, WI post Lara/Ambrose/Walsh and even ENG (post Flintoff/Pietersen) is clear as day.

 

People are so dumb denigrating legends like Sachin, Sehwag, Gambhir, Kumble etc. is really sad to see. Just because T20 era has made life infinitely easier for likes of Ashwin/Jadeja in helpful home conditions doesn't mean the legends of the past who had to contend with experts at tests in hostile conditions were poorer.

 

The only good team now that can thrive in all conditions is Australia and that too because they have Smith still playing well and Head is clutch. Anyone with common sense knows this and is truly the only competition for India. In pressure situations New Zealand has made life hell for India but they too have regressed lately after most of their players are traveling all around the world playing T20 leagues. South Africa are perennial chokers and were never competition.

 

Hopefully history doesn't get rewritten where absolute duds get elevated above legends who punched above their weight with pure skill.

I am sorry, Pakistan was top side in the 90's and were way ahead of teams like Zimbabwe but still lost at home. Even though Heath Streak, Andy Flower were great, Zimbabwe never won even a Test match in India and India were not even a top Test team in the 90's. The only overseas win we had through the 90's was in SL in 93. SL through the 90's was a GOAT ODI side post 1996 but still were a very poor Test side who filled their team with batters but struggled to win even at home. Zimbabwe themselves did not win much in Tests at home despite having some legendary players. NZ and England weren't great Test sides at home in the 90's either. The only top team they consistently beat at home were India as we were such a poor side. England lost to NZ, SA, Australia (multiple times) and Pakistan at home, NZ consistently lost to Pakistan and Australia at home. India and Australia were the only sides in the 90's who had an impeccable home record before India lost to SA in 1999/00. I grew up watching cricket in the 90's and I know what happened and how teams were in that entire decade. The only 2 teams who were greats in the 90's were Australia and South Africa with Pakistan being the 3rd. All the other teams in the 90's were mediocre. WI were great till 1994/95 but had a sharp decline after that, the only team they could beat at home was India post that. Just because Zimbabwe had better team in the 90's does not make that an era with better test sides at home. Yeah I agree that Pakistan have regressed but England & New Zealand sides playing presently are better sides than what was in the 90's. SL had a better batting side in the 90's but except for Murali (despite having Vaas) they struggled to win anything at home in Tests.

 

Currently home records for most teams is stronger than what it was in the 90's except for Pakistan who were struggling in the 90's anyways. England, Zealand and Zimbabwe had a W/L ratio of 0.8, 0.8 and .2 respectively in the 90's at home. England and New Zealand in the last decade at home have a W/L ratio of 2.05 and 3.5 at home respectively. The only 2 teams who have regressed since the 90's playing at home is Pakistan and West Indies. Zimbabwe's remain ordinary but have regressed as they haven't won any Tests but the records of other teams like India, Australia, SA, England, NZ, SL all remain good even in the last decade. Despite losing to India SL still are a tough team to beat at home, they have just beaten NZ at home. NZ are still a tough team to beat at home. England have become a very good side and a tough side to beat at home and haven't lost an ashes series since 2001 at home, while in the 90's England did not win a single series against Australia. Lots of teams have improved from how they were in the 90's. I think some people are stuck in nostalgia and want to say that teams in the 90's were better than today to put down players from this era. I agree that teams had better bowlers in the 90's but batting in the 90's wasn't the greatest. There were very few players who actually did well and were considered greats like Sachin, Lara and Steve Waugh. The rest of them were not even close. 

[Stan AF]

Concentrate on the good things fellow posters.

 

The first # in the above equation will only go/grow up/more & the gap between the two will widen more.

 

[Norman]

8 hours ago, BlueBlood said:

Dissing on players like Sachin, Sehwag, Kumble, Ganguly etc.

 

I've legit not seen a single poster "dissing" Sachin , Kumble etc on this thread. Don't know what you're on about for days lol. 

 

You've created your own strawman and proceeded to fight against a nonexistent argument. Typical Lahori behaviour...not accusing you of one though..you do you.

[sensible-indian]

On 9/23/2024 at 8:17 PM, BlueBlood said:

 

The issue here is England, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa were unbeatable at home. Since T20 leagues have come, most of their focus has gone to that and other sports.

 

Even Sri Lanka gave England at home a run for their money recently until they cheated with ball change. 

 

Same with Pakistan which came pretty close to beating at home in England.

 

It's sad these days that any sort of honesty is denigrated as anti-patriotic.

 

The fact remains that other teams have regressed. During Shane Bond and Chris Cairns era, New Zealand were unbeatable at home except against ATG Australia team. Now even Afghanistan on their day can beat NZ at home.

 

Same could be said of South Africa. They have regressed badly over the past decade once Steyn, Kallis etc. Retired.

 

It's sad we have a revisionist history where old legends like Kumble who punched way above their weight are forgotten for the likes of Ashwin/Jadeja who have it way too easy with doctored home pitches and inferior oppositions playing against them.

 

The same Ashwin was trying to bowl leg spin once Kuldeep and Chahal were wrecking havoc. Kumble never had to do that. People forget history soo easily.

 

This is why BCCI can keep milking money as people have such short term memory and any criticism is hated on as anti patriotic.

 

What I like about our Blue Blood brother is that he is a rebel.

 

Some rebel for attention. Some rebel for a cause.

 

But Blue brother is different.

 

Soooo different, he can't be even compared with others.

 

Others, in their quest for being different, might compare apples to oranges to make their point.

 

But comparing apples to oranges is so mainstream, yaar. So middle class.

 

Blue brother doesn't do that.

 

Instead he goes for the JUGULAR.

 

He compares apples with FOOTBALLS.

 

He will kick an apple and complain it doesn't travel far.

 

He will lick a football and complain it tastes funny.

 

To be fair, he is 100% right.

 

An apple can't be kicked far...and a football will always taste funny.

 

Therein, lies the GENIUS of Blue Brother.

 

Set wacky rules.

 

Play by the rules.

 

If for some reason, the output doesn't show up as desired...

 

Set EVEN more wacky rules and keep tweaking till you get the output.

 

Blue Brother is a master at this.

 

A genius if you will.

 

For he doesn't live a normal zindagi.

 

He lives the Mentos zindagi.

 

#DimagKiBattiJalaDe

Edited September 26, 2024 by sensible-indian

[putrevus]

11 minutes ago, sensible-indian said:

 

What I like about our Blue Blood brother is that he is a rebel.

 

Some rebel for attention. Some rebel for a cause.

 

But Blue brother is different.

 

Soooo different, he can't be even compared with others.

 

Others, in their quest for being different, might compare apples to oranges to make their point.

 

But comparing apples to oranges is so mainstream, yaar. So middle class.

 

Blue brother doesn't do that.

 

Instead he goes for the JUGULAR.

 

He compares apples with FOOTBALLS.

 

He will kick an apple and complain it doesn't travel far.

 

He will lick a football and complain it tastes funny.

 

To be fair, he is 100% right.

 

An apple can't be kicked far...and a football will always taste funny.

 

Therein, lies the GENIUS of Blue Brother.

 

Set wacky rules.

 

Play by the rules.

 

If for some reason, the output doesn't show up as desired...

 

Set EVEN more wacky rules and keep tweaking till you get the output.

 

Blue Brother is a master at this.

 

A genius if you will.

 

For he doesn't live a normal zindagi.

 

He lives the Mentos zindagi.

 

#DimagKiBattiJalaDe

Lol , I could not stop laughing.

[Norman]

1 hour ago, BlueBlood said:

Other than Australia every other team is B grade teams compared to their past

 

What exactly do you mean by "past"? 90s ? 80s? Pre WW2? WTF do you even mean by that?

 

Ofcourse when you compare all the current teams to their best ever versions at different points in the "past" , they'll look weak..that's just basic common sense. Do you really think each and every team in the world would be at their all time best at every given point? How dumb are you?

 

England, New Zealand, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and India are all stronger than they were in the 90s (in Test cricket). Australia are probably at a similar level or even arguably better too. They really peaked under Waugh from the late 90s through the 00s. Only teams that went down are Pakistan, West Indies and South Africa (still a quality team at full strength in non asian conditions). West Indies drew away in Australia just this year. Only team that has plunged to minnow status is Paxtan and that is why we see their dumbass fans claiming all such stupid theories of cricket "dying" to soothe themselves from the fact that their team is garbage. 

[goose]

4 hours ago, BlueBlood said:

Look at the other threads calling Ashwin and Jadeja ATG above people like Warne, Murali. Or whenever that putz Kohli scores he's rated above Sachin.

 

Selective memory that denigrates greats from the past.

 

10,000 test runs scored by Ganguly is equal to 25,000 runs+ now by Kohli as opposition quality is completely different. 

 

It's like comparing Rohit and Dhawan minnow bashing in bilateral to Sehwag and Sachin's average against far more difficult oppositions. Stat padding is a thing.

 

Or rating Jadeja over Dhoni in batting LOL.

 

Ashwin has done squat in SENA for 10 years. Kumble had a lot more impact then him but again selective memory favors minnow bashing and Bilateral bullying.

 

Other than Australia every other team is B grade teams compared to their past. Since IPL and T20 leagues this is an undeniable fact.

 

So celebrating a record mostly made at home conditions against inferior oppositions is sad. Celebrate Pant in Australia or Rahane's genius captaincy.

 

But Alas, it won't matter as 10 years from now people will forget the legends of the past. Test cricket doesn't even fill up stands in India let alone overseas anymore. Yet we compare it to the glory days when the best of the best battled it out.

 

jadeja is better than dhoni. his celebration is better than dhoni's forward defence