Is Kohli the greatest ever clutch player amongst greats ?

[vvvslaxman]

51 minutes ago, mishra said:

I am happy that he is gone 

 

Look at the way KL Rahul and Jddu has shined since we saw his back.

 

Kohli to me will always remain a player who lost to Pakistan in CT.

 

BYE BYE 

And T20 world cup too. Only loss against pakistan in a world cup match :(

[Sooda]

5 hours ago, Gollum said:

Even when it comes to clutchness, it is format dependent. G Smith was't clutch in white ball, but in tests he was a different beast, check out his 4th innings knocks. Same with Amla, AB. Many Saffers have been unbelievably clutch in tests and chokers in white ball. 

 

Even this RSA team outclutched Aus in the WTC final after being down and out more than once during the course of the test. And our maharathis fumbled a chase of 190 in Lord's against a far lesser bowling unit. 

 

Yep

 

ABdV has an amazing ODI record but his record in Knock out/ICC matches (from memory)is ordinary 

 

In tests OTOH...Tons in fourth innings Vs us at Joburg when they scored 450 and should have won tbh, and chasing 400+ Vs Aus to win at Perth and at the other end of the scale, 30 off 200 balls to draw a match too. 

[Lord]

6 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

Yuvraj actually hasn't done much against pakistan. failed in 2007 final, 2007 firs tround, 2011 world cup first ball duck i think.  But bowling was good though. 

 

Pak is a poor team. We rate them due to hate like OP does.

 

Yuvi did well vs Aussies most of the time. We missed someone like him in 23 finals

[jf1gp_1]

Kohli is one of the great this country has produced. Like most, there came a point when player becomes bigger than game. Minus Sachin haven't seen anyone else handle it better. Kohli went through same , couldn't handle and also lost his touch.

 

Edited October 6, 2025 by jf1gp_1

[Ultimate_Game]

4 hours ago, Lord said:

 

Pak is a poor team. We rate them due to hate like OP does.

 

Yuvi did well vs Aussies most of the time. We missed someone like him in 23 finals

 

We missed Pandya in 2023 WC Final. We have rarely lost to Aus (if at all) with Pandya in the team. Pandya plays that match and we win. 

[raki05]

1 hour ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

We missed Pandya in 2023 WC Final. We have rarely lost to Aus (if at all) with Pandya in the team. Pandya plays that match and we win. 

Agree but on the other hand Shami wouldnt have got chance. As dravid chachu was busy playing Sky and Dsp.

[Vk1]

Number of world cups we get to play now is incredible. There's one now every year? Confidence of each passing generation is much greater than previous one. What Pant has done in his first 3/4 years of test cricket Dhoni & others couldn't in their lifetime. Number of 100s in T20Is after SKY & young gen is many times more than prev gen ( excl Hitman ). 

[rkt.india]

18 hours ago, Gollum said:

In T20Is, yes he is (or was). And not just from India. In fact I consider him the GOAT of the format irrespective of what stats or IPL records say, huge gap between Kohli and the next best. 

 

Not the most clutch in ODIs and tests. Excellent in tests with a crazy peak. Probably the GOAT in ODIs but missed out in too many marquee KO games. 

There was nothing crazy about his peak in tests. His peak test average is 54.

[Bigg Brother]

In T20s yes. In ODIs, he missed out on so many KO games, single digit scores in Three consecutive KOs (WC SF 2015, CT17 F, WC 2019 SF) is unacceptable for someone like Kohli.

[deathmonger]

21 minutes ago, Vk1 said:

Number of world cups we get to play now is incredible. There's one now every year? Confidence of each passing generation is much greater than previous one. What Pant has done in his first 3/4 years of test cricket Dhoni & others couldn't in their lifetime. Number of 100s in T20Is after SKY & young gen is many times more than prev gen ( excl Hitman ). 

Or what Gill/Jaiswal/Sundar did in first England tour

[Vilander]

19 hours ago, Lord said:

 

Pak is a poor team. We rate them due to hate like OP does.

 

Yuvi did well vs Aussies most of the time. We missed someone like him in 23 finals

 

Acting on hate is when someone prepares and executes a malice based attack aimed to inflict pain. Such as to kill or maim or spread terror. Responding to such an attacker is a victims right. There is no equivalence between a cowardly attacker and a heroic defender. 

[Lord]

21 minutes ago, Vilander said:

 

Acting on hate is when someone prepares and executes a malice based attack aimed to inflict pain. Such as to kill or maim or spread terror. Responding to such an attacker is a victims right. There is no equivalence between a cowardly attacker and a heroic defender. 

 

This is about playing cricket. Not acting on hate

[Vilander]

3 hours ago, Lord said:

 

This is about playing cricket. Not acting on hate

This is about you not equating the hate that comes from pak with reaction that comes from India. 

[Lord]

52 minutes ago, Vilander said:

This is about you not equating the hate that comes from pak with reaction that comes from India. 

 

Not equating anyway. We 'hate' them due to their actions only. 

[rangeelaraja]

On 10/5/2025 at 7:58 PM, Lord said:

 

Pak is a poor team. We rate them due to hate like OP does.

 

Yuvi did well vs Aussies most of the time. We missed someone like him in 23 finals

 

 

Dude what you say doesn't make any sense to me. 

 

Its not hate that causes someone to rate them - it is the sheer pressure of the games due to history.

 

Its not my personal hate. There is a great deal stress due to a history of conflicts and strong idealogical /  religious differences - this naturally makes them high stake pressure games. 

 

So its not about rating them but acknowledging that they are indeed very high pressure games. 

 

Just like Aussie / English rivalry due to history of Ashes inspite for the most part Aussies being a way superior team than English and dominating Ashes and ODI cricket. Its still considered a " rivalry" if you get what I mean. 

 

India -Pakistan is 100 times more stressful and high stakes.

Edited October 7, 2025 by rangeelaraja

[Lord]

39 minutes ago, rangeelaraja said:

 

 

Dude what you say doesn't make any sense to me. 

 

Its not hate that causes someone to rate them - it is the sheer pressure of the games due to history.

 

Its not my personal hate. There is a great deal stress due to a history of conflicts and strong idealogical /  religious differences - this naturally makes them high stake pressure games. 

 

So its not about rating them but acknowledging that they are indeed very high pressure games. 

 

Just like Aussie / English rivalry due to history of Ashes inspite for the most part Aussies being a way superior team than English and dominating Ashes and ODI cricket. Its still considered a " rivalry" if you get what I mean. 

 

India -Pakistan is 100 times more stressful and high stakes.

 

Current Pak team is almost minnow level bro.Even USA beat them. Performances against them shouldn't be rated. But here we are.

 

There is slight pressure due to all other reasons but that is mainly avoiding a banana peel game. OTOH they still hype 2021 game.

 

Performances against better team still should be rated high. Those are pressure games from players' POV as even a small mistake can tilt the match against us

 

 

[rangeelaraja]

2 hours ago, Lord said:

 

Current Pak team is almost minnow level bro.Even USA beat them. Performances against them shouldn't be rated. But here we are.

 

There is slight pressure due to all other reasons but that is mainly avoiding a banana peel game. OTOH they still hype 2021 game.

 

Performances against better team still should be rated high. Those are pressure games from players' POV as even a small mistake can tilt the match against us

 

 

 

I don't think its as one sided as you are saying. They have been really really tight matches.

 

They bundled us out for 119 in T20 WC in NY and choked - we all but lost --https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/icc-men-s-t20-world-cup-2024-1411166/india-vs-pakistan-19th-match-group-a-1415719/full-scorecard

 

It took a freak Virat Kohli innings when 28 were needed of 8 for us to win  --https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/icc-men-s-t20-world-cup-2022-23-1298134/india-vs-pakistan-16th-match-group-2-1298150/full-scorecard

 

And then an extraordinary innings by Tilak Verma for us to win the Asia Cup 2025 when we were down in the dumps. 

 

We are definitely way way stronger but to say that the matches are no competition is not true.

 

They have given us many frights and close games. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gollum]

21 minutes ago, rangeelaraja said:

 

I don't think its as one sided as you are saying. They have been really really tight matches.

 

They bundled us out for 119 in T20 WC in NY and choked - we all but lost --https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/icc-men-s-t20-world-cup-2024-1411166/india-vs-pakistan-19th-match-group-a-1415719/full-scorecard

 

It took a freak Virat Kohli innings when 28 were needed of 8 for us to win  --https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/icc-men-s-t20-world-cup-2022-23-1298134/india-vs-pakistan-16th-match-group-2-1298150/full-scorecard

 

And then an extraordinary innings by Tilak Verma for us to win the Asia Cup 2025 when we were down in the dumps. 

 

We are definitely way way stronger but to say that the matches are no competition is not true.

 

They have given us many frights and close games. 

We would have failed to chase 80 odd in 2016 Asia Cup if not for Kohli. Indians must understand the Pawkee mentality, they don't mind losing to other teams but against India, it is like jihad for them (Imran Khan used said the same expression in a post-match in 80s, Mushtaq Mohd in 1978).....for them a tournament is a success if they beat India and lose all other games, failure if they lose to India but end up winning the event. We will always have a target on our backs when it comes to playing them, like jihadis they have to succeed only once against us, but we have to beat them every time, 'nothing to lose' vs 'everything to lose'. 

[Gollum]

This is the match I am talking about, again in BD where 4 years earlier he scored that famous 183 to chase down 330 against their chuckers. 

 

If not for Kohli, Pak would have won 4-5 more games against us in the 2013-24 period. Noise pollution would have been 10x worse. 

[Gollum]

At least in T20Is, it is a lot closer. From 2008 to circa 2013 they were a superior T20I team, aided no less by their chuckers Ajmal, Hafeez, Malik. They won 2009 WC, lost 2010 SF due to a freak Hussey knock, 2012 SFists. Again from 2019 to 22 they were better, and we were at our worst due to toothless bowling and an outdated batting template, poor captaincy/tactics. They would have won 2021 WC if not for Aussies.  

Edited October 7, 2025 by Gollum