Pujara's career is over?

[maniac]

Picture this

 

Scenario 1- Team is at 90/4...player A hits his zone of extreme concentration......fights and toils hard....team gets to a respectable total of 225 all-out-great

 

Scenario 2-Team is at 250/5 on the 4th day reducing a deficit of 150 and is in that position of a 100 run lead with the game hanging in balance.....Player B hits his zone....BOOM.....we are 400 in no time with a lead of 250... and the option of a declaration and time  to bowl out the opposition comes into picture.

 

The Crowd view scenario 1- Test cricket is about temperament,hail the effort of Player 1 but let us refresh our browsers to check how far along we are or read the morning newspaper or see the scroll bar in the news channels.

 

The Crowd view scenario 2-Exhilarating stroke play,counterattacking cricket....Box office like what Sehwag and Gilchrist did to test cricket.....can't miss action.

 

Probability of Scenario 1 and Scenario 2 occurring where the player is in his zone-50-50 first instance,40-60 2nd instance but......

 

How Captain/Coach view it-  Scenario 1 is negative mindset that has affected Indian cricket for a while....Scenario 2 is a big gamble but the payoff is going to be huge.

 

In a perfect world-Play Horses for courses or get a player who has both gears but doesn't work that way does it?

 

So you be the judge.

 

[mishra]

1 minute ago, Vilander said:

i want these jokers to play with quality opposition without Pujara and Vijay. ANYWHERE.in swinging seaming conditions it would be fun to watch. There wont be any resistance.

Fixed

[maniac]

10 hours ago, rkt.india said:

hwo could we have won that game comfortably? WI had taken a lead already and we would never know how many more they would have scored.

WI first innings 196 allout...India at the fall of first wicket was 86/1....Had Pujara got out for a duck let us say Kohli who also played a sedate innings might have been out cheaply too but even if we are liberal deducting a 150 runs...India would be 160 odd runs ahead on Day 4...The pitch on Day 4 before the rain came in was unplayable.....WI were 60 odd for 4  when rain came in...the way pitch was behaving we would have got atleast 15 more overs and that would mean 3-4 wickets for 40 odd runs.

 

So WI would have been 50 behing with 2 wickets in hand...totally different scenario....Even if the tail added 150 more...that would mean knocking off 100 runs on a flat pitch

[Vilander]

5 minutes ago, maniac said:

Picture this

 

Scenario 1- Team is at 90/4...player A hits his zone of extreme concentration......fights and toils hard....team gets to a respectable total of 225 all-out-great

 

Scenario 2-Team is at 250/5 on the 4th day reducing a deficit of 150 and is in that position of a 100 run lead with the game hanging in balance.....Player B hits his zone....BOOM.....we are 400 in no time with a lead of 250... and the option of a declaration and time  to bowl out the opposition comes into picture.

 

The Crowd view scenario 1- Test cricket is about temperament,hail the effort of Player 1 but let us refresh our browsers to check how far along we are or read the morning newspaper or see the scroll bar in the news channels.

 

The Crowd view scenario 2-Exhilarating stroke play,counterattacking cricket....Box office like what Sehwag and Gilchrist did to test cricket.....can't miss action.

 

Probability of Scenario 1 and Scenario 2 occurring where the player is in his zone-50-50 first instance,40-60 2nd instance but......

 

How Captain/Coach view it-  Scenario 1 is negative mindset that has affected Indian cricket for a while....Scenario 2 is a big gamble but the payoff is going to be huge.

 

In a perfect world-Play Horses for courses or get a player who has both gears but doesn't work that way does it?

 

So you be the judge.

 

dude i have always liked your posts good fun, but you have researched Rohits test strike-rate right ?

[putrevus]

Pujara cannot cry foul on anybody except himself. Yes Rohit might be getting more chances  than he deserves but he proved in ODIs he is worth that investment.

 

[zen]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

I  was replying to this part of your post 

 

My point is, Pujara has been a very average test batsman in the last two and a half years. Staring from 2014, he is averaging 30 in test matches. In his whole career, he averages just 29 in tests  played outside Asia.  Leaving deliveries, looking classic and all that is ok but unless he scores runs  more consistently and heavily,  he will just  be an average test batsman. 

 

Which is why  I raised the question of effectiveness. Whatever your batting style, I want those batsmen in my test team who score runs consistently and in most places in the world. 

 

Many great or good test batsmen have used ODI style batting in test matches very effectively. That includes many batters from the champion Australian and WI sides.  We have seen excellent test batters like Sehwag, Gilchrist and Warner.  ODI influence has been there in test matches for quite some time and no one is going to leave test matches completely for the classic test match fans. Influence of LOIs on test matches will increase with every passing year. 

 

Yuvraj, Raina, Rohit etc. do not deserve a place in test teams because they lack test temperament and could not / cannot score either consistently or heavily in tests.   You should not compare a Yuvraj, Raina, Rohit  with Dravid in a test match but Sehwag with Dravid  or Kohli with Pujara.

 

In a nutshell, if you want to enjoy the batsman-ship of batsmen like Pujara in tests, they need to score runs more consistently and heavily all over the world.  Otherwise they will be replaced because there are a lot of commercial considerations that drives cricket  these days.

 

I know you won't rett-ify my points because you are now  zen-zational            

 

I don't agree with your stats analysis as

• In 2015 Pujara had the 2nd best (if I am not wrong) avg for Ind, while in 2016 he has played a lot of balls in the 2 tests so far. Vijay is actually averaging less since 2015 iirc 
• Arguments such as stats outside Asia are pointless if outside Asia teams are encountered with similar conditions. At times, conditions can be tough for batting in Asia 

Effectiveness is a general point, which should not be made.  The points that most of the posters make usually already assume such generalizations. Also effectiveness is relative. And it cannot be judged based on stats alone. For e.g. in a partnership, one of the batsmen could play a passive role. Would you consider Dravid as ineffective in a Sehwag-Dravid partnership? 

 

I agree with your general point that batsmen have to score runs consistently. Just like I agree that all cars should be driven safely. Since the test series is going on in WI, below are a few memorable results which those arguing based on stats alone could miss:

• Link - That Lara's 45 is worth a lot more than Ten's 90 odd  
• Link - Irrespective of the conditions, a spell like that from Ambrose could turn the equations on its head 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[express bowling]

On 8/14/2016 at 5:49 PM, zen said:

1 hour ago, CG said:

 

 

[maniac]

8 minutes ago, zen said:

 

I don't agree with your stats analysis as

• In 2015 Pujara had the 2nd best (if I am not wrong) avg for Ind, while in 2016 he has played a lot of balls in the 2 tests so far. Vijay is actually averaging less since 2015 iirc 
• Arguments such as stats outside Asia are pointless if outside Asia teams are encountered with similar conditions. At times, conditions can be tough for batting in Asia 

Effectiveness is a general point, which should not be made.  The points that most of the posters make usually already assume such generalizations. Also effectiveness is relative. And it cannot be judged based on stats alone. For e.g. in a partnership, one of the batsmen could play a passive role. Would you consider Dravid as ineffective in a Sehwag-Dravid partnership? 

 

I agree with your general point that batsmen have to score runs consistently. Just like I agree that all cars should be driven safely. Since the test series is going on in WI, below are a few memorable results which those arguing based on stats alone could miss:

• Link - That Lara's 45 is worth a lot more than Ten's 90 odd  
• Link - Irrespective of the conditions, a spell like that from Ambrose could turn the equations on its head 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dravid Pujara comparison stops just at the slow S/R....Dravid usually kicks on and makes it big....I mean a score of 30(100) is ok if you can convert that into a 150(300+) balls but a 30(100) and getting out sucks out the momentum and puts you on the back foot.

 

I liked Pujara and in the early part of his career he had a similar ability as Dravid to kick on from a slow start and make a big score...but now this one paced innings that result in a mediocre score doesn't help,especially against a team like WI where you have a chance to make it count by totally putting them out of the contest.

Edited August 15, 2016 by maniac

[zen]

3 minutes ago, maniac said:

Dravid Pujara comparison stops just at the slow S/R....Dravid usually kicks on and makes it big....I mean a score of 30(100) is ok if you can convert that into a 150(300+) balls but a 30(100) and getting out sucks out the momentum and puts you on the back foot.

 

I liked Pujara and in the early part of his career he had a similar ability as Dravid to kick on from a slow start and make a big score...but now this one paced innings that result in a mediocre score doesn't help,especially against a team like WI where you have a chance to make it count by totally putting them out of the contest.

However, you have to realize that Ind is fielding 5 batsmen so those in the 11 have to make the most of it by not throwing wkt away. Earlier, you may find that Dhoni could be the captain which meant that Ind was playing an extra batsman which allowed batsman to play "relatively" freely

 

If we have to rely on Ashwin and Saha to bail Ind out, then there is something wrong with Ind's batting strategy highlighted by the benching of Vijay and Pujara. I like Rohit though and don't mind him getting chances but not at the expense of test specialists such as these two 

[fineleg]

Making a case for No-hit in Test cricket?

Who changed N0hit to Rohit automatically when we post? Which Mod is responsible for things like this auto correct when we type, stifles the freedom of posters?

Edited August 15, 2016 by fineleg

[express bowling]

32 minutes ago, zen said:

 

I don't agree with your stats analysis as

• In 2015 Pujara had the 2nd best (if I am not wrong) avg for Ind, while in 2016 he has played a lot of balls in the 2 tests so far. Vijay is actually averaging less since 2015 iirc 
• Arguments such as stats outside Asia are pointless if outside Asia teams are encountered with similar conditions. At times, conditions can be tough for batting in Asia 

Effectiveness is a general point, which should not be made.  The points that most of the posters make usually already assume such generalizations. Also effectiveness is relative. And it cannot be judged based on stats alone. For e.g. in a partnership, one of the batsmen could play a passive role. Would you consider Dravid as ineffective in a Sehwag-Dravid partnership? 

 

I agree with your general point that batsmen have to score runs consistently. Just like I agree that all cars should be driven safely. Since the test series is going on in WI, below are a few memorable results which those arguing based on stats alone could miss:

• Link - That Lara's 45 is worth a lot more than Ten's 90 odd  
• Link - Irrespective of the conditions, a spell like that from Ambrose could turn the equations on its head 

 

 

 

Mr. Pujara needs to get some big scores under his belt ASAP.

 

With a team management not in favour of him and commercial considerations not supporting him,  all this micro-analysis won't work.

 

Very few ex-cricketers and commentators support him these days and praises are more cursory and polite. That is a worrying sign.

Edited August 15, 2016 by express bowling

[rkt.india]

2 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Mr. Pujara needs to get some big scores under his belt ASAP.

 

With a team management not in favour of him, all this micro-analysis wont work.

he scored 145 just previous overseas series, a match winning effort on a pitch that you barely find even outside SC, the guy who replaced him failed miserably on other better batting pitches, still again finds him in the team.  Rohit for Pujara is the worst decision ever.

[express bowling]

1 minute ago, rkt.india said:

he scored 145 just previous overseas series, a match winning effort on a pitch that you barely find even outside SC, the guy who replaced him failed miserably on other better batting pitches, still again finds him in the team.  Rohit for Pujara is the worst decision ever.

I don't want to see Rohit Sharma anywhere near a test team and I don't know how many more times I have to say this.

 

That 145 is Pujara's only big score in 31 months and he needs more.   

 

Pujara has very few backers among powerful people  and that won't help his cause.

 

 

[express bowling]

Cheteshwar Pujara's  biggest plus as a FC cricketer, and in the early years of his test career , was his hunger for runs. This guy was a run machine.  It was impossible to get him out.  He was awesome,....with a superb technique , amazing temperament. People waited for his every innings.  The way he batted against Steyn and Co. in South Africa was  .  This was how he fared till end 2013

 

 

Career averages

	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
unfiltered	2010-2016	34	58	5	2482	206*	46.83	5149	48.20	7	7	2	300	5	Profile
filtered	2010-2013	17	28	4	1590	206*	66.25	3045	52.21	6	4	0	195	2

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/32540.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=1;home_or_away=2;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=8;orderby=default;spanmax2=31+Dec+2013;spanmin2=01+jan+1988;spanval2=span;template=results;type=batting

 

 

 

I am a bit saddened to see quality posters trying  to defend 30s and 40s by him.  An average of 30 in his last 17  tests, and the role of blunting the new ball and getting out, does not become him.  Pujara needs to get out of this mediocrity mindset , remember what he was and  shut up all his critiques for good by going back to the champion mindset that he once had.

 

Best of luck to him !

 

Edited August 15, 2016 by express bowling

[Laaloo]

4 hours ago, fineleg said:

Making a case for No-hit in Test cricket?

Who changed N0hit to Rohit automatically when we post? Which Mod is responsible for things like this auto correct when we type, stifles the freedom of posters?

You have been censored. Rohit to Rohit. Dhoni to Dhoni. 

[Sandeep99]

Time to reopen Anti-Kohli thread. This rat is putting a potential world class test team in jeopardy just for a B grade cricketer..

[mishra]

6 hours ago, maniac said:

Dravid Pujara comparison stops just at the slow S/R....Dravid usually kicks on and makes it big....I mean a score of 30(100) is ok if you can convert that into a 150(300+) balls but a 30(100) and getting out sucks out the momentum and puts you on the back foot.

 

I liked Pujara and in the early part of his career he had a similar ability as Dravid to kick on from a slow start and make a big score...but now this one paced innings that result in a mediocre score doesn't help,especially against a team like WI where you have a chance to make it count by totally putting them out of the contest.

Sorry, iirc Dravid in his early years had painfully slow strike rate. Every time he hit the ball it used to go to fielder on 1. I am not stats guru but i think someone can dig that

[MCcricket]

Let's see how long the experiment will last, Dhawan n Rohit not suitable for test cricket n sooner then later Virat should realize that, Pujara should be a permanent fixture in our test side

[Vilander]

Gentlemen for your kind consideration.

 

This is Che

 

 

This is Pujara

 

 

[Stuge]

puju is a better batsmen with better technique

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