Why even bother with domestic cricket?

[Ultimate_Game]

If likes of Rahane and Yuvraj are going to be regulars no matter what why bother with the hassle of going through the charade which is domestic cricket?  Selectors may as well pen down the same XI or 16 man squad without bothering about the performances.

 

The Indian squad selected for CT is one of the weakest team in the tourney and even managing to get to semis would be an achievement for this squad. And I suspect the only reason India manages to get to semis, if it does, would be thanks to bowling coz batting is over the hill, living off its past reputation with no power hitters in sight. Kohli saved us in 2016 but if he doesn't find the same vein of rich form I expect this batting unit to struggle to get to 260-270 consistently.

 

As for selectors, it must be a nice job to be paid for a nice long vacation where you know you won't have to do anything. Not even one left field selection or even one youngster picked shows how they are sleeping at the wheel. Likes of Pant have every reason to feel let down and disappointed and if the selectors were in the mood for 'Tried and Tested' players, Raina would've been a better option than Rahane. Raina has done well in England in the past and at least provides some sort of power hitting which the current lot is incapable of providing. What a let down and I wish India had boycotted CT than seeing this squad  

[G_B_]

Agree

 

Sent from my Wileyfox Swift using Tapatalk

 

 

[Sooda]

The mistakes weren't in this squad but in the ODI squads for the home series over the last few months. That was the time to give younger players the experience so that they were not totally green coming into a big tourno. Once Yuvraj was picked vs England, everyone knew he was going to be playing CT. This squad was always going to read like this.

 

It was against England and NZ that the likes of Hooda (potential successor to Yuvraj) Pant , even Manish should have been given more matches

Edited May 8, 2017 by Sooda
update

[Sooda]

^Those series were also the time to try new ODI openers, be it Mandeep or Mukund or Iyer. Yet again we went with Rahane vs NZ.

[The Realist]

The current selectors strategy document:

 

 

 

[sourab10forever]

This same squad will reach the finals and might even win it. Period. 

We'll talk after the finals.

[rkt.india]

Pretty much same team won the CT last time.

[Ultimate_Game]

1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

Pretty much same team won the CT last time.

Isn't it a big red flag that we haven't found any new fresh talent in those 4 years? Generally you would expect at least a few changes over that period of time and somebody like Pant would've been perfect. We lack someone to take the game to the opposition at the top of the order. Pant could've been that "X" factor.

[The Realist]

12 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

Isn't it a big red flag that we haven't found any new fresh talent in those 4 years? Generally you would expect at least a few changes over that period of time and somebody like Pant would've been perfect. We lack someone to take the game to the opposition at the top of the order. Pant could've been that "X" factor.

In sport having the same team from 4 years ago is a sign of stagnation not strength. Other teams will have younger and hungrier players while Ind go with the same set of older players who have won nothing since 2013.

[Ultimate_Game]

Just now, The Realist said:

In sport having the same team from 4 years ago is a sign of stagnation not strength. Other teams will have younger and hungrier players while Ind go with the same set of older players who have won nothing since 2013.

True. We are still keeping all the dead wood from the last 4 years. 4 years and no changes is quite mind boggling TBH. That means our system is so rotten that not even a single player was able to come up to challenge the current team. IMO this is more the question of selectors wearing blinders than the indictment of our domestic setup.

[Lord]

Would have agreed and upvoted the OP but amusing how he didnt mention Dhoni

[Ultimate_Game]

8 minutes ago, Lord said:

Would have agreed and upvoted the OP but amusing how he didnt mention Dhoni

I already mentioned the rationale for the same in another thread a few days back but here goes...

 

Yuvi is a middle order batsman past his sell by date and is a poor fielder to boot. There are replacements for him in the middle order.

 

Dhoni OTOH is a wkt keeper and a batsman who has done well in odis and there are no easy replacements for him. Pant is the closest I can think of and in T20 it would be easy to replace him with Pant. But in a odi you can't replace him with Pant at the moment. i would rather play Pant as an opener and over time get him to keep wkts as well so that by the time WC 2019 rolls in he's fully entrenched as a wkt keeper batsman. Plus based on what we've seen of Kohli's captaincy this IPL and against England in shorter formats, he will need to rely on Dhoni for captaincy.

[Lord]

2 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

I already mentioned the rationale for the same in another thread a few days back but here goes...

 

Yuvi is a middle order batsman past his sell by date and is a poor fielder to boot. There are replacements for him in the middle order.

 

Dhoni OTOH is a wkt keeper and a batsman who has done well in odis and there are no easy replacements for him. Pant is the closest I can think of and in T20 it would be easy to replace him with Pant. But in a odi you can't replace him with Pant at the moment. i would rather play Pant as an opener and over time get him to keep wkts as well so that by the time WC 2019 rolls in he's fully entrenched as a wkt keeper batsman. Plus based on what we've seen of Kohli's captaincy this IPL and against England in shorter formats, he will need to rely on Dhoni for captaincy.

Whats the harm in playing Pant right now and let him develop till 2019.His keeping has been decent to say the least in IPL 

 

As for captaincy,Kohli needs to be in charge sooner than later.Dhoni is unlikely to stay till 2019 so need to give Kohli full freedom.Has done well in Tests without Dhoni hasnt he?Will learn in LOIs too.Otherwise just replace him with someone else

[Ultimate_Game]

1 minute ago, Lord said:

Whats the harm in playing Pant right now and let him develop till 2019.His keeping has been decent to say the least in IPL 

 

As for captaincy,Kohli needs to be in charge sooner than later.Dhoni is unlikely to stay till 2019 so need to give Kohli full freedom.Has done well in Tests without Dhoni hasnt he?Will learn in LOIs too.Otherwise just replace him with someone else

I'm afraid of putting too much pressure on Pant asking him to open as well as wkt keeping. It's not an easy task. In T20s it's fine but odi is a different ball game altogether. I would've preferred the selectors to have played Pant against Eng in odis and T20s and maybe rested Dhoni a game or two to see how Pant would handle it but as usual they messed it up with their regressive selections  

 

IMO I don't think Pant can handle both the roles at the moment and he needs to be eased in as a batsman the way Aussies did with playing Gilchrist as a batsman when Healy was still around. Gotta keep in mind Pant is only 19 years old and i wouldn't want to hamper his progress by putting too much pressure on him.

 

As for captaincy in Tests you have an opportunity to come back. You regroup as a team nearly at the end of every session during lunch or team break and have an opportunity to come back. in shorter formats you don't get the luxury and the match can slip by quite quickly. Against England Kohli nearly allowed Eng to chase a total of 370 odd and you could see that his decision making wasn't that great in odis. We've seen the same in IPL. I would prefer he plays with Dhoni for some time so he learns from him.

[Pollack]

2 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

I'm afraid of putting too much pressure on Pant asking him to open as well as wkt keeping. It's not an easy task. In T20s it's fine but odi is a different ball game altogether. I would've preferred the selectors to have played Pant against Eng in odis and T20s and maybe rested Dhoni a game or two to see how Pant would handle it but as usual they messed it up with their regressive selections  

 

IMO I don't think Pant can handle both the roles at the moment and he needs to be eased in as a batsman the way Aussies did with playing Gilchrist as a batsman when Healy was still around. Gotta keep in mind Pant is only 19 years old and i wouldn't want to hamper his progress by putting too much pressure on him.

 

As for captaincy in Tests you have an opportunity to come back. You regroup as a team nearly at the end of every session during lunch or team break and have an opportunity to come back. in shorter formats you don't get the luxury and the match can slip by quite quickly. Against England Kohli nearly allowed Eng to chase a total of 370 odd and you could see that his decision making wasn't that great in odis. We've seen the same in IPL. I would prefer he plays with Dhoni for some time so he learns from him.

 

[Pollack]

Before Selection: Don't give a chance to dhoni's replacement because he is a rookie.We don't want to put pressure on him.

Durring Selection: There is no replacement for dhoni .(Because apparently nobody is allowed).

After Selection: Dhoni is still the best wicketkeeper batsman available.Else why is he being selected.

Repeat..

 

[NareshK]

The rationale behind selectors choices is:

 

Rahane is a back up opener with a good technique and temperament. If conditions were to help seamers, they would want someone to anchor the innings at the top of the order. Rahane is also one of the best player of fast bowling in the team.

 

Yuvraj - a leftie batsman with experience. Middle order has Kedhar Jadhav, Manish Pandey and Hardik Pandya all of whom have little to no experience. They preferred someone who has played in big tournaments before and knows how to handle pressure. Yuvraj is also one of the cleanest hitters, match winners and always scores at a good strike rate.

 

Dhoni - still a good keeper especially to spinners. Scoring decently in IPL and still hitting the ball well. His experience will help Kohli.

 

Its not always the best choice to play rookies in big tournaments as its always tough for them to make the transition to international cricket. That's what bilateral series are for. Pant, Hooda, Iyer etc. will get their chances soon. Its still only early days in their career.

Edited May 8, 2017 by NareshK

[Ultimate_Game]

1 hour ago, Pollack said:

Before Selection: Don't give a chance to dhoni's replacement because he is a rookie.We don't want to put pressure on him.

Durring Selection: There is no replacement for dhoni .(Because apparently nobody is allowed).

After Selection: Dhoni is still the best wicketkeeper batsman available.Else why is he being selected.

Repeat..

 

Not really no. I'm all for giving Pant a chance but as a batsman and eventually to take over from Dhoni. Pant is way too valuable a player to be thrown at the deep end in odis. In T20Is he should replace Dhoni.

[gattaca]

4 hours ago, NareshK said:

The rationale behind selectors choices is:

 

Rahane is a back up opener with a good technique and temperament. If conditions were to help seamers, they would want someone to anchor the innings at the top of the order. Rahane is also one of the best player of fast bowling in the team.

 

Yuvraj - a leftie batsman with experience. Middle order has Kedhar Jadhav, Manish Pandey and Hardik Pandya all of whom have little to no experience. They preferred someone who has played in big tournaments before and knows how to handle pressure. Yuvraj is also one of the cleanest hitters, match winners and always scores at a good strike rate.

 

Dhoni - still a good keeper especially to spinners. Scoring decently in IPL and still hitting the ball well. His experience will help Kohli.

 

Its not always the best choice to play rookies in big tournaments as its always tough for them to make the transition to international cricket. That's what bilateral series are for. Pant, Hooda, Iyer etc. will get their chances soon. Its still only early days in their career.

The point is selectors slept during bilaterals and played old dead wood instead of trying new young players. 

[Ultimate_Game]

2 hours ago, gattaca said:

The point is selectors slept during bilaterals and played old dead wood instead of trying new young players. 

This. Pant and Pandey should've played every match during the Ind-Eng series but they took the easy way out and played the "safe" squad and now we are left with no option but to go with the tried and tested folks which will most likely come back without doing much.