Why Should Hindi be/not be national language of India?

[mishra]

^ As example, Not just Bihari people, but Whole of North India treats Laloo as fraudster, But whole of South politics is corrupt? Far more then Laloo. But they dont feel the heat. Do you understand how common language like Hindi impacts politicians. South politicians know this very well. That even Northies and all of Southies will standup to corruption in say Kerala or Tamilnadu which is right now they are carrying out with impunity.

Edited April 4, 2019 by mishra

[Lannister]

1 hour ago, mishra said:

Easy to learn and speak

Maybe we find it easier to learn English, as our entire educational system is based on that language 

1 hour ago, mishra said:

Northies find English relatively difficult, Still they try to learn and every parent tries to send his kid in a English medium school.

Please, they can send their kids back to Hindi medium. Indian Railways is a very good career prospect. You can leave the Engineering and IT sector for other people.  

 

1 hour ago, mishra said:

But you are missing the point. Issues like the one I mentioned about Tamil Genocide can not have been done by MMS/Soania/Delhi If Southie authors and people had reach to North Indian people,local news papers, media, businesses and politician. They simply did it because they could afford that. And yes, How many Kannada, Telugu,Mallu opposed that. English simply failed Tamilian issue.

No idea about this and don't care in the current scenario. 

[Stan AF]

The whole notion of only "Hindi" should be the national language itself is ridiculous.

 

English will help the country a lot more than Hindi ever will. Learning English has a lot more advantages than Hindi. Plain and simple.

 

[mishra]

32 minutes ago, Lannister said:

Maybe we find it easier to learn English, as our entire educational system is based on that language 

Please, they can send their kids back to Hindi medium. Indian Railways is a very good career prospect. You can leave the Engineering and IT sector for other people.  

 

No idea about this and don't care in the current scenario. 

Bollocks. Absolute Bollocks

Sometime back, I watched a Southie movie "Pariyerum Perumal" with subtitles where a Low caste village Kid goes to study law and falls in love with a high caste girl. There was a scene where he gets frustrated because he cant understand anything then college lecturer asks everyone that "Those who dont understand English raise their hand?", Then she asks same question in "Tamil" to class and every one raises the hand. Thats how easy southie find English.

 

At the end of it all, I felt, same movie can be made with background somewhere from any North state and director wont have to change a single thing. Thats how much similar we are. But unlike me, most Northies dont see this similarity. My argument, is there will be better and easier information sharing, if politicians and their mouthpieces stopped opposing Hindi. We will question every project, every sorrow, every evil as one.

 

So dont claim , just because you find it easier means everyone is in same boat.

 

PS: Every should Watch the movie. Its beatifull piece

Edited April 4, 2019 by mishra

[Tibarn]

I had proposed in another thread that there should've been a national script of India. It is much easier to teach students different scripts via textbook than another language. One could've been taught the traditional script of their mother-tongue alongside Brahmi(or even Devanagari). Of course, that would have been an easy way for everyone to learn each other's languages as well. 

 

Of course, I support Sanskrit as the official language of government in India, which had some support during the Independence era. 

 

[Tibarn]

Edited April 4, 2019 by Tibarn

[coffee_rules]

45 minutes ago, Tibarn said:

I had proposed in another thread that there should've been a national script of India. It is much easier to teach students different scripts via textbook than another language. One could've been taught the traditional script of their mother-tongue alongside Brahmi(or even Devanagari). Of course, that would have been an easy way for everyone to learn each other's languages as well. 

 

Of course, I support Sanskrit as the official language of government in India, which had some support during the Independence era. 

 

I think even Aurobindo suggested that. All Indian languages have roots in Samskrita and have adopted a lot of words. Samskrita was written in a whole lot of scripts including Prakrit, Devanagiri, Kannada and Tamil. Devanagiri is the most popular in the last few 100 of years, So, I am not a fan of common script. Language yes. 

[Lannister]

1 hour ago, mishra said:

Sometime back, I watched a Southie movie "Pariyerum Perumal" with subtitles where a Low caste village Kid goes to study law and falls in love with a high caste girl. There was a scene where he gets frustrated because he cant understand anything then college lecturer asks everyone that "Those who dont understand English raise their hand?", Then she asks same question in "Tamil" to class and every one raises the hand. Thats how easy southie find English.

Nice story but these things are expected in the rural side. I doubt they are even proficient in their own language seeing the quality of education over there. Throwing in Hindi will make the matter even more worse and laughable. 

 

2 hours ago, mishra said:

But unlike me, most Northies dont see this similarity. My argument, is there will be better and easier information sharing, if politicians and their mouthpieces stopped opposing Hindi. We will question every project, every sorrow, every evil as one.

So who is the evil according to you? The ones who oppose Hindi imposition and Modi's twisted ideologies? 

 

[Lannister]

 

@mishra Behold the true glory. You think Hindi will come close to this beauty and it's rich tradition? 

[Stan AF]

Let's make some things very clear for once and all.

 

Hindi does not have the utility or the world wide appeal of English. It will never have. If Southerners chose English it is because of this mainly.

 

Second, It will be always hindi for national language and nothing else will be considered. Which is why it should be resisted and rightly called Hindi Imposition.

 

Third and the most important it will be the beginning of the destruction of the South Indian Languages and its culture. If anyone says otherwise I have a bridge to sell them.

 

 

Edited April 4, 2019 by Stan AF

[The Dark Horse]

Heck Modi has included Tamil verses in his speeches in Tamilnadu...it's only a matter you guys also turned around

[Stan AF]

Just now, The Dark Horse said:

Heck Modi has included Tamil verses in his speeches in Tamilnadu...it's only a matter you guys also turned around

You obviously have never heard of Go back Modi

[The Dark Horse]

Just now, Stan AF said:

You obviously have never heard of Go back Modi

I have saar

[Gollum]

1 hour ago, Stan AF said:

Hindi does not have the utility or the world wide appeal of English. It will never have. If Southerners chose Hindi it is because of this mainly.

This one reason is enough. Africans, Arabs, Germans, Chinese and Russians are turning towards English now, and we have to turn the other way around despite overwhelming advantage (courtesy the British rule)? Hindi won't come close to supplanting English, not in a million years either in terms of utility or scholarly/academic/technical know-how. 

 

I find it strange that those who advocate for Hindi in place of English (including some ICFers here) do it despite using English as their main medium of communication including on this very forum. They must have done their schooling, college in English medium institutions and must be working in companies where English is the main medium of exchange of info. Yet they want other Indians to make sacrifices by letting go off the opportunity to learn the lingua franca of humanity. Talk about speaking from a privileged position, talk about being selfish !!!!

 

I know children of house maids, watchmen, auto drivers etc who bemoan the fact that they don't know English, and how they are at a disadvantage compared to some of their peers. They can't get into the best high schools, colleges, workplaces because they don't know English at an acceptable level. Now you can't ask colleges/MNCs to relax admission/employment rules for such people, else the selfish, small minded, privileged lot will scream injustice !!! Have you guys seen the Hindi/vernacular medium science books for class XII? I have seen the PCM books in Bengali, and believe me those kids were at a huge disadvantage in JEE, BITSAT, AIEEE, NISER type exams competing against children well versed in Resnick Halliday, Morrison Boyd, JD Lee, ADG, SL Loney etc. There is a world of difference in the coherence/depth/ease of English medium books vis-s vis vernacular ones even if content is same. English is the universal language of knowledge dissemination, like it or not. Hindi or for that matter even Bengali, Malayalam, Tamil, Urdu, Assamese whatever don't come in the same ballpark. 

 

I hope the pro-Hindi warriors here take the initiative and send their children to Hindi medium schools instead of English medium ones. Let them lead by example and then talk. I'd say the same to the politicians and babus who lecture the public about govt schools.....'send your own children there and then talk mofos'. People are inherently selfish, they want success and advancement at the cost of others. Those advocating for English here also want to eliminate competition for their offsprings and subsequent generations.  

 

English is the most powerful language in the world, and will remain so no matter what. We must be lucky that it is more natural for us to imbibe than say French, Japanese or Mandarin. 

 

So kripya aap log shanti se thodi der baithiye or aise khayal apne man se nikal dee jie...cos Hindi should never be our national language. Aukaat sabke samne hai. 

 

I have repeated the same points many a time here, last post on this topic. My thoughts about this subject are consistent, well known and are largely in sync with @Muloghonto (1st 2 pages), and we have made the same points in multiple threads. So won't bother to waste any more time. You agree, fine.....disagree, fine I respect your opinion but won't change mine. 

Edited April 4, 2019 by Gollum

[Mariyam]

3 hours ago, ProudLiberal said:

The fact you make conclusions based on a movie tells me that you have no understanding of this subject. Anyways, it’s doesnt matter because Hindi won’t ever be allowed to dominate over regional languages, heck forget about southies, we won’t allow Hindi to supersede punjabi here in Punjab, even though punjabi and Hindi are very similar

How does a language 'dominate' over another? What do you mean by that?

 

Hindi and Punjabi aren't discrete languages. They are languages in continuum and affect each other to this day, and will continue to do so. 

For instance, a lot of work (specifically prose and vocabulary) of Amrita Pritam, whom many consider one of contemporary Punjab's finest poetesses has a lot of work 'inspired' by Dinkar.

[mishra]

2 hours ago, Gollum said:

This one reason is enough. Africans, Arabs, Germans, Chinese and Russians are turning towards English now, and we have to turn the other way around despite overwhelming advantage (courtesy the British rule)? Hindi won't come close to supplanting English, not in a million years either in terms of utility or scholarly/academic/technical know-how. 

 

I find it strange that those who advocate for Hindi in place of English (including some ICFers here) do it despite using English as their main medium of communication including on this very forum. They must have done their schooling, college in English medium institutions and must be working in companies where English is the main medium of exchange of info. Yet they want other Indians to make sacrifices by letting go off the opportunity to learn the lingua franca of humanity. Talk about speaking from a privileged position, talk about being selfish !!!!

 

I know children of house maids, watchmen, auto drivers etc who bemoan the fact that they don't know English, and how they are at a disadvantage compared to some of their peers. They can't get into the best high schools, colleges, workplaces because they don't know English at an acceptable level. Now you can't ask colleges/MNCs to relax admission/employment rules for such people, else the selfish, small minded, privileged lot will scream injustice !!! Have you guys seen the Hindi/vernacular medium science books for class XII? I have seen the PCM books in Bengali, and believe me those kids were at a huge disadvantage in JEE, BITSAT, AIEEE, NISER type exams competing against children well versed in Resnick Halliday, Morrison Boyd, JD Lee, ADG, SL Loney etc. There is a world of difference in the coherence/depth/ease of English medium books vis-s vis vernacular ones even if content is same. English is the universal language of knowledge dissemination, like it or not. Hindi or for that matter even Bengali, Malayalam, Tamil, Urdu, Assamese whatever don't come in the same ballpark. 

 

I hope the pro-Hindi warriors here take the initiative and send their children to Hindi medium schools instead of English medium ones. Let them lead by example and then talk. I'd say the same to the politicians and babus who lecture the public about govt schools.....'send your own children there and then talk mofos'. People are inherently selfish, they want success and advancement at the cost of others. Those advocating for English here also want to eliminate competition for their offsprings and subsequent generations.  

 

English is the most powerful language in the world, and will remain so no matter what. We must be lucky that it is more natural for us to imbibe than say French, Japanese or Mandarin. 

 

So kripya aap log shanti se thodi der baithiye or aise khayal apne man se nikal dee jie...cos Hindi should never be our national language. Aukaat sabke samne hai. 

 

I have repeated the same points many a time here, last post on this topic. My thoughts about this subject are consistent, well known and are largely in sync with @Muloghonto (1st 2 pages), and we have made the same points in multiple threads. So won't bother to waste any more time. You agree, fine.....disagree, fine I respect your opinion but won't change mine. 

Agree with this. Each point. And I don’t want to take call for what is best for a particular region, strata or class of Indian Society.

However , I Am against opposition of Hindi on grounds of local language. My view that nationally, when students and people of various states are put in one area, automatically Hindi becomes medium of communication. This is fact and can not be ignored.

For example my children can speak Hindi, they can’t read it, but knowing the Hindi makes their life in India more enjoyable, there is absolutely nothing wrong and no impact on their Capabilities of English, If anything they beat Every English kid in their school in English.

I also know parents whose kids can’t speak anything other then English and they don’t like visiting India

[Tibarn]

5 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

I think even Aurobindo suggested that. All Indian languages have roots in Samskrita and have adopted a lot of words. Samskrita was written in a whole lot of scripts including Prakrit, Devanagiri, Kannada and Tamil. Devanagiri is the most popular in the last few 100 of years, So, I am not a fan of common script. Language yes. 

Origins mostly in the words themselves. Everything in the North has most of the language components in common with  Sanskrit: structure, grammar, words.  Some languages like Marathi are hardly different from it, and it's easy to learn/understand another North Indian language once you know one, simply due to the commonalities. It's just a matter of exposure.  

 

Southern languages tend to share words and their derivatives with Sanskrit, but the grammar structure is different. Malayalam seems to have more Sanskrit origin words than some North Indian languages even.  

 

Sanskrit has only been written in Devanagari exclusively for roughly the last century. Before that it was written in multiple scripts used in India, including Brahmi, Grantha, Bengali, Telugu, etc   

https://subhask.okstate.edu/sites/default/files/EarlyWriting.pdf

 

My point in mentioning a national script was not to replace other scripts; people should learn their mother tongues in their original scripts as well. The idea was to make a single common script learned alongside the original script, which overtime, allows people across India to at least functionally read/learn any other Indian language. India is actually historically a nation of polyglots, following from its economic history, where people move between states/regions and learn languages pretty easily.The creation of linguistic-states destroyed this uniquely Indian trait and left the door open for such types of language politics and allowing certain goonish parties to hold people of "their" states hostage. 

 

The example of this would actually be Roman script, which, once someone knows it, allows one to read/learn a number of different languages of Europe. 

 

A script at the basic level is just a symbolic representation of a sound, so it is very easy to teach a child 2+ different symbols for the same sound. Languages are actually very hard to learn, especially after age 10-18, depending on the child.

Edited April 4, 2019 by Tibarn

[Muloghonto]

11 hours ago, Tibarn said:

I had proposed in another thread that there should've been a national script of India. It is much easier to teach students different scripts via textbook than another language. One could've been taught the traditional script of their mother-tongue alongside Brahmi(or even Devanagari). Of course, that would have been an easy way for everyone to learn each other's languages as well. 

 

Of course, I support Sanskrit as the official language of government in India, which had some support during the Independence era. 

 

I don't know if you know this or not, but Shin Huang Di ( aka Qin Shih Huang) actually standardized Chinese symbolic script and terminated several alphabet based Chinese scripts. The rationale presented behind a pictographic script, at that time was that since China had many languages, it doesn't matter what language you speak, when the script is pictographic. The symbol for a house or tax or man, is the symbol for it,  regardless of how you pronounce it. Ergo, everyone would be able to communicate via writing (so long as they are literate) and there is no excuse for not following government edict (so long as you are literate), regardless of what language they spoke.

Can't say i agree with the idea per se, but it does bring up interesting questions re: script. 

[someone]

When our own people have issues with national anthem, or dont believe and respect the army, this national language debate is secondary. This government made a honest attempt is building some unity, sameness, yet there is deep rooted differences. Irrespective of who wins this 2019 election, there is gonna be increasing voices from all parts of country on separatism based on different religion, languages. Should we even remain as one big nation in gonna be our biggest question next decade. At least, we can vote for the right government, and not get those people elected who side with separatists, eg bharat tere tukde honge gang

 

 

[Vilander]

16 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

I don't know if you know this or not, but Shin Huang Di ( aka Qin Shih Huang) actually standardized Chinese symbolic script and terminated several alphabet based Chinese scripts. The rationale presented behind a pictographic script, at that time was that since China had many languages, it doesn't matter what language you speak, when the script is pictographic. The symbol for a house or tax or man, is the symbol for it,  regardless of how you pronounce it. Ergo, everyone would be able to communicate via writing (so long as they are literate) and there is no excuse for not following government edict (so long as you are literate), regardless of what language they spoke.

Can't say i agree with the idea per se, but it does bring up interesting questions re: script. 

India should use English script. simple. people who want to speak in English can speak and write in English. People who want to speak regional languages can speak in it, and while writing officially use English script just for lolz and have translators translate the sound that comes out while reading the script. it will not reduce the efficiency of Indian babus by much anyway.