flamy Posted January 27, 2019 Posted January 27, 2019 Like many others, I also would want an upgrade to our middle order. But, I'm also realizing I have a bit of a hangover of India being a batting-heavy team. Right now, we have 4 strike bowlers, and with Jadhav and Pandya, decent fifth bowling, we are actually the most balanced I have ever seen us be. In the last two years, and statsguru champions, please help me out, I think the CT final is the only one we lost conceding more than 300. Rest of them have been either wins, and one tie I think. And, in total, teams have scored > 300 against us less than 6 or 7 times. In any case, I'm all for aggressive batting at the top, and either Dhoni, Kedar, Karthik, Pandya or Gill, Dhoni, Jadhav, Pandya; but I also feel like we might be underestimating our bowling slightly for those 25 extra runs. velu, CSK Fan, Laaloo and 1 other 1 2 1
sandeep Posted January 27, 2019 Posted January 27, 2019 There will be a day when our bowlers will run into a batting lineup, or even a batsman or 2 who's in form and in a zone, on a batting track. You can't assume that Bumrah, the spin twins, Bhuvi, Shami etc will always manage to strangle teams. And it would be different if our batting simply wasn't capable, or it was "too risky" to push for those extra 25-30 runs. But that's simply not the case. Number and Clarke 1 1
Number Posted January 27, 2019 Posted January 27, 2019 Against this batting line up on a flat pitch Hales strike rate 95 Roy strike rate 104 Bairstow- 104 Root-86 Morgan-89 Stokes- 94 Buttler-117 Moeen- 105 Tendulkar1996 and nevada 1 1
Trichromatic Posted January 27, 2019 Posted January 27, 2019 Kuldeep can be handled after first few matches. Chahal, Shami and Bhuvi having off days isn't uncommon.
Insidious Posted January 27, 2019 Posted January 27, 2019 18 minutes ago, Trichromatic said: Kuldeep can be handled after first few matches. Chahal, Shami and Bhuvi having off days isn't uncommon. Why you feel so? Kuldeep is a thinking bowler. If batsman can adapt against his bowling, kuldeep can also bring new methods to counter. velu and Adi BB 2
Insidious Posted January 27, 2019 Posted January 27, 2019 33 minutes ago, Number said: Against this batting line up on a flat pitch Hales strike rate 95 Roy strike rate 104 Bairstow- 104 Root-86 Morgan-89 Stokes- 94 Buttler-117 Moeen- 105 In this batting line up only Root and Buttler can be dangerous. Root was comfortable against kul-cha, and Buttler is the most dangerous LoI player around. Others are just headless chicken against quality bowling. velu 1
Clarke Posted January 27, 2019 Posted January 27, 2019 There are flat tracks that nullify all good bowling. Bowlers have off days as well. There will be those days where we end up chasing 350+ where Dhoni/Rayudu/Pandey become massive liabilities. UrmiSinhaRay and velu 1 1
profster Posted January 27, 2019 Posted January 27, 2019 (edited) If we bat first and put up 315-325 on a flat pitch then I expect the scoreboard pressure of chasing and no respite from dew etc. to add 15-25 runs in our favour. I like our chances. Our nightmare is the CT 2017 Final and the CWC 2015 SF scenarios of a bowling failure on a flat pitch and chasing 315+. Then, I think it is upto the top 3 to take us home. How many of you think that this middle order is capable of pulling off a chase of 325 from 115/3 after 20 overs with Rohit, Dhawan and Kohli back in the hut? That said, our reputation for chasing and the beast mode of Kohli and past deeds of Dhoni might make a defensive captain to ask us to bat first (like Azhar did against SL in CWC 1996 SF on a fresh Eden Gardens wicket). But then, our own overconfident captain might win the toss and chose to bat just like he did against Pakistan in the CT 2017 Final :-( Edited January 27, 2019 by profster Tendulkar1996, velu and UrmiSinhaRay 2 1
jf1gp_1 Posted January 27, 2019 Posted January 27, 2019 I am going to mix two finals. Aussie team which won WC 15 if were chasing 338 in CT final, could they have recovered from 3/33 ? Basically could Clarke, Watson , maxwell, Haddin and faulkner make 300 in 42 overs ( point where our top 3 had gone). While it would have been tough but they had the line which could still Chase it down which we don’t . Point is while we may not need 350 type batting line up every game , if we did need one like in that match then we don’t have it. velu 1
Nikola Posted January 27, 2019 Posted January 27, 2019 4 minutes ago, jf1gp_1 said: I am going to mix two finals. Aussie team which won WC 15 if were chasing 338 in CT final, could they have recovered from 3/33 ? Basically could Clarke, Watson , maxwell, Haddin and faulkner make 300 in 42 overs ( point where our top 3 had gone). While it would have been tough but they had the line which could still Chase it down which we don’t . Point is while we may not need 350 type batting line up every game , if we did need one like in that match then we don’t have it. We were 76/1 when dhawan threw his wicket not 3/33
profster Posted January 27, 2019 Posted January 27, 2019 12 minutes ago, Nikola said: We were 76/1 when dhawan threw his wicket not 3/33 CWC 2015 SF was a winnable match and we had a good start to the chase. Australia didn't bat us out of the match like they did in the CWC 2003 Final. sandeep 1
R!TTER Posted January 27, 2019 Posted January 27, 2019 Yes & this is why you don't chase biggish totals in WC (same reason why fielding first in CT final was beyond stupid from Kohli!) the pressure is just too much. Even Aus haven't chased 300+ in WC KO, in fact I don't recall a single instance of that feat. But as you said we did have a good, slow start after which Dhawan & Sharma threw away their wickets & Kohli flopped. Dhoni pulled the shutters & the game was done by overs 25-30 - we were never really in the game after Dhawan got out. As good as the top 3 are today 300 is not our cup of tea in a WC KO game, you need nerves of carbyne & 99/100 times other teams will also fail at such junctures. UrmiSinhaRay and profster 1 1
Nonbeliever Posted January 27, 2019 Posted January 27, 2019 No.. There is a world cup every 5 years. So no hurry. profster and UrmiSinhaRay 1 1
GautiMaan Posted January 27, 2019 Posted January 27, 2019 To win the world cup you need to have all bases covered. What if we are chasing 300 and lose a few wickets at the top,the current line up will limp to 250 at best. UrmiSinhaRay and putrevus 1 1
jf1gp_1 Posted January 27, 2019 Posted January 27, 2019 2 hours ago, Nikola said: We were 76/1 when dhawan threw his wicket not 3/33 http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/8037/scorecard/1022375/india-vs-pakistan-final-icc-champions-trophy-2017
putrevus Posted January 27, 2019 Posted January 27, 2019 Again match lost due to Dhoni and co's ineptness https://www.cricbuzz.com/live-cricket-scorecard/18956/ind-vs-nz-1st-odi-new-zealand-tour-of-india-2017
mishra Posted January 27, 2019 Posted January 27, 2019 (edited) If Thala is allowed to manage 3+ spinners, we will always defend 300 on any pitch against any team unless our openers give away 85-100 runs in first 10 overs Edited January 27, 2019 by mishra
Straight Drive Posted January 27, 2019 Posted January 27, 2019 300 runs is no more a winning total on the grounds in England along with the impact of two balls rules and field restrictions as well as power play options. 350 though is too much of a ask in every match. We might score a couple of 350's though in this WC. If we have 330 on-board , then with Bumrah and the two spinners, we should be safe. I would say 320 is a must to feel safe, 350 will be a unrealistic ask in every match.
flamy Posted January 27, 2019 Author Posted January 27, 2019 England is a bat-heavy team. We are not England, and need not try to be them.
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