India drags Pakistan to global civil aviation body after it denies airspace to PM Modi yet again

[FischerTal]

India has taken Pakistan to global civil aviation body International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) for denying the use of airspace for transit for President Ram Nath Kovind and Prime Minister Narendra Modi. 

Islamabad on Sunday announced that it will not be allowing the use of its airspace for PM Modi's plane during his visit to Saudi Arabia.

 

Reacting to the development, a government source said, "We regret the decision of the Government of Pakistan to yet again deny overflight clearance for the VVIP special flight, which is otherwise granted routinely by any normal country."

Explaining, "Overflight clearances are sought, and granted by other countries as per prescribed ICAO guidelines and India will continue to seek such overflight clearances. Separately, we have taken up the matter of such denial with the relevant international civil aviation body."

Under the charter of ICAO, unless it's war, denying the use of airspace by singling out cannot be done by any country. Pakistan can be slapped with a heavy fine.

This is the second time since the abrogation of Article 370, Pakistan has denied the use of its Airspace for PM Modi. Pakistan denied airspace when Modi was travelling to New York for United Nations General Assembly week in September. 

"Pakistan should reflect upon its decision to deviate from well established international practice, as well as reconsider its old habit of misrepresenting the reasons for taking unilateral action," a government source said. 

Pakistan has also denied the use of its airspace for President Ram Nath Kovind's plane in early September. 

Pakistan had closed its airspace on February 27 after India's counter-terror operation in Balakot on February 26 following Pulwama attack that killed more than 40 Indian security personnel. 

The closure that lasted for more than four months had caused a considerable problem for air travellers across the globe. 

 

Source: https://www.wionews.com/india-news/india-drags-pakistan-to-global-civil-aviation-body-after-it-denied-airspace-to-pm-modi-yet-again-258399

 

Right thing to do. Deal with a terror state in the only language it understands. Modi baniya bhikhari mulk ko aur bhikhari bana dega. 

[diga]

Laaton ke bhoot baaton se nahi mante... 

Edited October 28, 2019 by diga

[jf1gp_1]

2 hours ago, FischerTal said:

Right thing to do. Deal with a terror state in the only language it understands. 

I am certain liberals are going to come up with crap like ohh why are we throwing a tantrum like a toddler but i agree with you its about message which has to be passed. 

[FischerTal]

1 hour ago, jf1gp_1 said:

I am certain liberals are going to come up with crap like ohh why are we throwing a tantrum like a toddler but i agree with you its about message which has to be passed. 

at first I was wondering why GoI kept requesting Pak over and over again. Now it makes sense. It helps build a case against them.

[motomaverick]

In addition to this, there are several other things that can be done.

 

1. Stop exporting anything to them. Why the hell are we giving them life saving drugs and medicines? And why are we exporting daily essentials like tomatoes, ginger, garlic etc. to them?

 

2. Put a permanent ban on Visas to their citizens. Why should we allow their artists to earn money from Bollywood and allow them into India for their medical needs? Let them go to iron brother China instead.

 

3. Revoke IWT. Let them cry a river at the UN.

[G_B_]

i think they are asking on purpose to be fair,.. they know it will be no but they then will impose economic sanctions.

 

Truth is jets of Kovind and Modi can easily fly 7000km-8000km

[Cricketics]

Screw them now. If our airlines or any airline for that matter has to take longer route to reach any territory in India just because Pak isn't giving clearance, then that means its hurting an average India and screwing up their time and money. In that case, we shouldn't trade anything with such nation. 

[Gollum]

India doing the smart thing, PakMil falling into the same trap again and again...makes them look petty, perception battle ongoing. 

Edited October 28, 2019 by Gollum

[jf1gp_1]

40 minutes ago, Gollum said:

India doing the smart thing, PakMil falling in the same trap again and again...makes them look petty, perception battle ongoing. 

 

Even somali pirates will win a perception battled if pitted against Pakistani. Buggers have Sharif in prison, zardari in prison, musharraf on the run and talking about house arrest of abdulas 

[G_B_]

48 minutes ago, Gollum said:

India doing the smart thing, PakMil falling in the same trap again and again...makes them look petty, perception battle ongoing. 

Suspect Modi knows Imran cannot lose face and give the right to fly over.

 

 

[Gollum]

1 hour ago, G_B_ said:

Suspect Modi knows Imran cannot lose face and give the right to fly over.

 

 

Modi govt has plenty of faults but its key decision makers have figured out Pakistan unlike the Congressi cowards/traitors. Lot of pain in store for the neighbors in the coming decade. 

[MechEng]

1 hour ago, Gollum said:

Modi govt has plenty of faults but its key decision makers have figured out Pakistan unlike the Congressi cowards/traitors. Lot of pain in store for the neighbors in the coming decade. 

Yes, this is a no nonsense government when it comes to foreign policy. I quite liked how the support for Syrian Kurds and Cyprus territorial integrity was shown in response to Erdogan meddling with Kashmir issue.

[MechEng]

Congress' soft attitude towards Pakistan is a symptom of liberal altruism. While altruism is indeed a noble virtue, in the real world you need to keep your guard up and be alert.

[Muloghonto]

2 hours ago, MechEng said:

Congress' soft attitude towards Pakistan is a symptom of liberal altruism. While altruism is indeed a noble virtue, in the real world you need to keep your guard up and be alert.

Altruism to the enemy is not a noble virtue, it’s basic evolution fail in surviving. 

[mishra]

9 hours ago, motomaverick said:

In addition to this, there are several other things that can be done.

 

3. Revoke IWT. Let them cry a river at the UN.

I agree with point 3. We must somehow achieve it. Even if it takes 10-20 years to build a case, but Government should start making a case about it. 
For example, it should keep giving water shortage and advisories more aggressively and regularly. Let the world know that India hasn’t got water for its own population.

[sandeep]

8 hours ago, Cricketics said:

Screw them now. If our airlines or any airline for that matter has to take longer route to reach any territory in India just because Pak isn't giving clearance, then that means its hurting an average India and screwing up their time and money. In that case, we shouldn't trade anything with such nation. 

Pakistani govt, military, and even bulk of folks are 2 faced hypocrites.  Business with India?  Won't sign WTO status agreement.  Transit for Afghan-India business? Won't allow it.  Airspace?  More petty trash.   But suddenly when it comes to cricket, and wanting Indian money, they want India to play with them - "keep sports and politics separate". 

 

Beghairat.

[sandeep]

2 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

Altruism to the enemy is not a noble virtue, it’s basic evolution fail in surviving. 

Both - altruism, as well as punitive actions, should be targeted appropriately.  It is in the interests of survival and thriving, to target altruism at certain aspects of the Pakistani populace.  This is not to justify Congress' pussy capitulation to pakistani terrorist blackmail - the current hard-line on security taken by the govt - firm, immediate retaliation by the Indian state in the face of terror attacks - is much needed and effective. 

 

The communication between the states of India and Pakistan has broken down - diplomatic back and forth, demarche etc were meaningless. They are talking to each other in deeds - India, via balakot, a370, surgical strikes etc - is sending a loud message that the old business as usual of hiding behind "non-state actors" is not going to be tolerated.  And that Indian govt feels strong enough, and is committed, to impose its will, this side of the LoC.  Pakistan, via its hue and cry, is signaling its desperation and its desire to not settle for the status quo.  But for all the shrieking propaganda, and the LoC skirmishes - they are also demonstrating that they now know what the cost will be if a "non state actor" strikes against India. 

 

I am no Modi fan, but on his Pakistan policy, he has to be given credit.  This govt, has successfully shrunk the operating space for Pakistan to play its "non state actor" cards.  They have called the nuclear bluff on punitive retaliation.  Twice now.  It was long overdue. 

 

And for what its worth, I expect the Indian govt, to slowly keep tightening the vise, and reduce its tolerance lower and lower for what Pakistan can do.  Let them shriek and say what they want.  They will be judged and responded to, based on their actions.

[Muloghonto]

19 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Both - altruism, as well as punitive actions, should be targeted appropriately.  It is in the interests of survival and thriving, to target altruism at certain aspects of the Pakistani populace.  This is not to justify Congress' pussy capitulation to pakistani terrorist blackmail - the current hard-line on security taken by the govt - firm, immediate retaliation by the Indian state in the face of terror attacks - is much needed and effective. 

 

The communication between the states of India and Pakistan has broken down - diplomatic back and forth, demarche etc were meaningless. They are talking to each other in deeds - India, via balakot, a370, surgical strikes etc - is sending a loud message that the old business as usual of hiding behind "non-state actors" is not going to be tolerated.  And that Indian govt feels strong enough, and is committed, to impose its will, this side of the LoC.  Pakistan, via its hue and cry, is signaling its desperation and its desire to not settle for the status quo.  But for all the shrieking propaganda, and the LoC skirmishes - they are also demonstrating that they now know what the cost will be if a "non state actor" strikes against India. 

 

I am no Modi fan, but on his Pakistan policy, he has to be given credit.  This govt, has successfully shrunk the operating space for Pakistan to play its "non state actor" cards.  They have called the nuclear bluff on punitive retaliation.  Twice now.  It was long overdue. 

 

And for what its worth, I expect the Indian govt, to slowly keep tightening the vise, and reduce its tolerance lower and lower for what Pakistan can do.  Let them shriek and say what they want.  They will be judged and responded to, based on their actions.

I disagree that altruism serves any purpose towards an enemy that has crossed all lines. They have attacked us in 4 wars, bombed our parliament via non state actors and have openly threatened to nuke us. The point of no return has long been crossed. The ram has touched the gate, no mercy. We have no use for altruism towards Pakistan anymore till we neutralize it completely, meaning break it up. 

[sandeep]

14 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

I disagree that altruism serves any purpose towards an enemy that has crossed all lines. They have attacked us in 4 wars, bombed our parliament via non state actors and have openly threatened to nuke us. The point of no return has long been crossed. The ram has touched the gate, no mercy. We have no use for altruism towards Pakistan anymore till we neutralize it completely, meaning break it up. 

I'm less interested in what the Pakistani state did in the past, than I am in what they do in the present and future.  What is the utopian ideal outcome that is the Indian interest?  I'd say that a "normal" Pakistan state that interacts with India as a normal neighboring state - zero terror, plenty of business etc. 

 

But it is not realistic to imagine that the current Pakistan state will magically transform itself into such a state. So the Indian govt is tasked with working towards managing the current reality, while attempting to push events in a direction that will lead to preferred outcomes.  Short of the utopian ideal, the objective ought to be to reduce the risk of terrorist attacks, not just today but in the future.  The best - and arguably the only - way to attain that outcome, is to have the Pakistani state act in its self-interest - i.e. define its self-interest in such a way that it will, out of its own volition, stop enabling terrorists, and ideally combat them.  

 

A policy of targeted altruism, directed against the "general" Pakistani public, has the potential to provide multiple pay-offs for India.  It will act as a continuous and self-reinforcing marketing message, reducing the recruiting pool for possible Ajmal Kasabs.  A climate of mutual hatred between India and Pakistan, serves to do the exact opposite.  

 

A policy of targeted altruism, also increases the ability of improved communication and influence over the next generation of Pakistani leadership - whether they are corrupt or clean, civilian or military.  If the Indian state and society foolishly decide to copy the Pakistani hate-filled mindset of hostile bigotry, it is not helping the ultimate agenda of the Indian state.  It is in fact, counterproductive.  

 

Do keep in mind, that I am not out here advocating mindless "aman ki aasha" nonsense.  I am 110% fully supportive of pro-active firing on the LoC against PakMil.  1000% supportive of punitive action against the PakMil - of the post-Uri and post-Pulwama kind, even in the absence of such provocations.  But simultaneously, we can be smart enough to keep the levers of targeted altruism active, in pursuit of the ultimate objective of achieving peace and security on the sub-continent.  

[Muloghonto]

Just now, sandeep said:

I'm less interested in what the Pakistani state did in the past, than I am in what they do in the present and future

Those who do not remember history are bound to repeat it. What Pakistan did in the past is very much relevant for the now and the future, as this past is only 70 years old. 

Just now, sandeep said:

.  What is the utopian ideal outcome that is the Indian interest?  I'd say that a "normal" Pakistan state that interacts with India as a normal neighboring state - zero terror, plenty of business etc. 

Broken up Pakistan which is denuclearized and it’s various pieces are hostile to each other. 

Just now, sandeep said:

But it is not realistic to imagine that the current Pakistan state will magically transform itself into such a state. So the Indian govt is tasked with working towards managing the current reality, while attempting to push events in a direction that will lead to preferred outcomes.  Short of the utopian ideal, the objective ought to be to reduce the risk of terrorist attacks, not just today but in the future.

Agreed. Which is why I say , no mercy, the ram has touched the wall. We dismembered them once, we have to do it again. 

Just now, sandeep said:

  The best - and arguably the only - way to attain that outcome, is to have the Pakistani state act in its self-interest - i.e. define its self-interest in such a way that it will, out of its own volition, stop enabling terrorists, and ideally combat them.  

Tried that. Failed. Their self interest is not borne out of a democratic society but that of a parasitic military industrial complex that uses its own people like slaves to further ya own agenda. Dismemberment is the only credible option left on the table. 

Just now, sandeep said:

A policy of targeted altruism, directed against the "general" Pakistani public, has the potential to provide multiple pay-offs for India.  It will act as a continuous and self-reinforcing marketing message, reducing the recruiting pool for possible Ajmal Kasabs.  A climate of mutual hatred between India and Pakistan, serves to do the exact opposite.  

False. The Pakistani public has been brainwashed by its military complex that we are all coward Hindus and it’s their manifest destiny to rule us. Any altruistic actions will be seen through this lens of submissive behaviour of the Hindus. Which is why when we did try to act altruistically under MMS, they escalated, which is the natural response of those hostile to us and will attribute our nicesess to submissiveness than altruism. 

Just now, sandeep said:

A policy of targeted altruism, also increases the ability of improved communication and influence over the next generation of Pakistani leadership - whether they are corrupt or clean, civilian or military.  If the Indian state and society foolishly decide to copy the Pakistani hate-filled mindset of hostile bigotry, it is not helping the ultimate agenda of the Indian state.  It is in fact, counterproductive.  

We have virtually no chance of influencing their military to be friendly towards us, as their entire power in their country is predicated on hostility towards us. In this regard, PakMils aggressive stance towards us is perfectly in their self interest and logical. To think that they will act against their own interests due to our altruism is illogical and naive.