Pandya and Jadeja at No. 6 and 7 is a recipe for failure

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, sandeep said:

Been asking for Pandya to bat at #5 for months now.  Give him the chance to practice building an innings when the situation isn't demanding that he come in and start blasting, or come in with 5 down and match almost gone.  The guy can bat decent.  But because we don't have firepower in other batsmen, we are using a swiss army knife to do just one thing.  

 

Yes, he's probably best suited to be a #6, but by batting him for a year at #5 you find out if he can deliver in that spot.  Or at a minimum, give him the exposure and experience to further develop as a player, so when he settles back in at #6, he's got that behind him.  

 

But there are folks on this forum who still want to keep bashing the one rare half-allrounder we have.  Simply because of personal bias.

 

 

I like quite a few aspects about Pandya's batting.

-- He goes to the line of the ball and tries to play the ball under his eyes,

-- He moves his feet,

-- He plays with a straight bat when he is not pulling or cutting ( there is no slicing nonsense )

-- He has time to play quick bowling

 

One area he needs to improve in is that he is trying to hit almost every ball very hard. And this is messing up his timing.

 

I think Hardik can build an innings and can easily bat at No 5.

 

But who will bat at 6 if Pandya comes at 5  ?  No.6 is too low for Rahul and he won't be happy about it. And Iyer is not cut out for No.6.

 

 

[maniac]

32 minutes ago, sandeep said:

oh shut up you are biased because you are ghhujharati and so is Pandya. "lol lol lol".  haha.  

 

oh "don't be offended" if i repeatedly accuse you of ethnic bigotry, without basis.  while my 2 all-time favorite players are Telegu, just like me.   Its classic Trumpy projection.  

 

 

goddy is a golt ? (nice ring to it even though don’t like the word golt as it’s more dumb than offensive). Ishu is a golt?   doesn’t have a ring to it but there is another conspiracy there why I like Ishant @gattaca will explain it better

[sandeep]

6 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

I like quite a few aspects about Pandya's batting.

-- He goes to the line of the ball and tries to play the ball under his eyes,

-- He moves his feet,

-- He plays with a straight bat when he is not pulling or cutting ( there is no slicing nonsense )

-- He has time to play quick bowling

 

 

 

 

 

yep.  I have seen him play the straight drive, the cover drive, with aplomb, against top class international pace bowling.  He has the toolkit to be an effective middle order ODI batsman.  

 

6 hours ago, express bowling said:

One area he needs to improve in is that he is trying to hit almost every ball very hard. And this is messing up his timing.

 

His shot selection, innings pacing - these things clearly are a work in progress.  There are times where he ought to bide his time and look to pace himself while minimizing risk - he does attempt this method, but tends to overdo it a bit.  But this sort of nous and applied 'smartness' - to execute risk-free scoring against good bowling, using the shots that you have in your ability - is not an overnight thing.  Its something that has to be practiced, repeatedly. In match situations. 

 

In a perfect world, I would have wanted Hardik at #5 for a year+ before the last WC, so that in a crunch situation like the SemiFinal, he had been there and done that a few times.  But given the musical chairs game played in the middle order, and the 2017 decision set in stone to "accommodate" Dhoni, it was difficult to give Hardik that slot.  

 

Past is past.  There is simply no excuse not to re-construct the Indian batting unit.  This beat-down is actually a much needed blessing - Indian cricket is complacent and the "soooper" stars prefer to preserve the lucrative status quo.  Let's hope the bitch-slap in the 1st 2 ODIs is utilized appropriately by the selectors. 

 

India needs to have 2 legit spin-allround options for the 'home' ODI WC.  I don't know who can deliver in ODIs - is it Nitish Rana, Samad, Krunal, whoever.  But we need to start auditioning guys.  It look years of Sanjay Bangars and Rishi Dhawans to finally find a Pandya.  We don't have much time before the 2023 WC.

[Ankit_sharma03]

21 minutes ago, sandeep said:

. 

India needs to have 2 legit spin-allround options for the 'home' ODI WC.  I don't know who can deliver in ODIs - is it Nitish Rana, Samad, Krunal, whoever.  But we need to start auditioning guys.  It look years of Sanjay Bangars and Rishi Dhawans to finally find a Pandya.  We don't have much time before the 2023 WC.

 

Exactly this is what ppl dont get. 

11 players make a team and everyone has a role .  

We need a second all rounder who is good with bat but when someone lik dube fails ppl question the role rather looking for next option. 

That role vacancy remains, look for next player but dont change the role.

 

Ppl cant get over old school thoughts which is why most dont even knw the meaning of bits n pieces, hacks and specialist . 

 

A player is good at right position, just becoz someone is a specialist doesnt make him good at every position. Ponting is better then symonds at 3 , but at 6 symonds is better.

Quite a few on icf have been advocating manish , gill even rahane a few in place of pandya. Now they might be better then him up the order but the minute they bat in lower middle batsman they fall mighty short of pandya. Yet ppl refuse to get this and want and easy way - label players and thats it. Railu katta keh do, hack bol do, bits n pieces bol do kaam khatam. 

This is the basic diff between champions ipl side and avg ones. Good sides buy players for certain roles and avg one buys big names.

 

Leaving fans aside this is what our TM dont get which is why right players arent identified , their strength and weakness arent assesed hence all the mess. 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Ankit_sharma03

[sandeep]

14 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Leaving fans aside this is what our TM dont get

Nope.  They get it.  Its just not in their financial interest to pursue it.

[zen]

Great performances by both SDP and Jadeja 

 

View overall figures [change view]

Primary team India

Opposition team Australia

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Nov 2020

Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 50

Ordered by batting average (descending)

Page 1 of 1

Showing 1 - 7 of 7

Overall figures

Player	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
HH Pandya	3	3	1	210	92*	105.00	183	114.75	0	2	0	15	6
V Kohli	3	3	0	173	89	57.66	186	93.01	0	2	0	14	3
RA Jadeja	3	3	1	115	66*	57.50	98	117.34	0	1	0	6	6
S Dhawan	3	3	0	120	74	40.00	136	88.23	0	1	0	17	0
KL Rahul	3	3	0	93	76	31.00	92	101.08	0	1	0	5	5
MA Agarwal	2	2	0	50	28	25.00	44	113.63	0	0	0	6	1
SS Iyer	3	3	0	59	38	19.66	59	100.00	0	0	0	7	0

 

[bowl_out]

/thread

[Ankit_sharma03]

well well looks like they read this with manju interview 

[Straight Drive]

Pandya and Jadeja are two who can bat and bowl on their days. It's becoming a good pair. Without Jadeja, Pandya would not have got to build a partnership and vice versa. They form a decent lower middle order batting pair.

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

Jadeja will have a bunch of series where he isn't really contributing with bat or ball. People call for his head. Then he plays one innings and people are convinced the team needs him. Then he plays a bunch of series where he isn't really contributing with bat or ball.

Rinse and repeat. People enjoy being tortured at this point.

[rkt.india]

On 12/1/2020 at 4:58 AM, sandeep said:

 

yep.  I have seen him play the straight drive, the cover drive, with aplomb, against top class international pace bowling.  He has the toolkit to be an effective middle order ODI batsman.  

 

 

His shot selection, innings pacing - these things clearly are a work in progress.  There are times where he ought to bide his time and look to pace himself while minimizing risk - he does attempt this method, but tends to overdo it a bit.  But this sort of nous and applied 'smartness' - to execute risk-free scoring against good bowling, using the shots that you have in your ability - is not an overnight thing.  Its something that has to be practiced, repeatedly. In match situations. 

 

In a perfect world, I would have wanted Hardik at #5 for a year+ before the last WC, so that in a crunch situation like the SemiFinal, he had been there and done that a few times.  But given the musical chairs game played in the middle order, and the 2017 decision set in stone to "accommodate" Dhoni, it was difficult to give Hardik that slot.  

 

Past is past.  There is simply no excuse not to re-construct the Indian batting unit.  This beat-down is actually a much needed blessing - Indian cricket is complacent and the "soooper" stars prefer to preserve the lucrative status quo.  Let's hope the bitch-slap in the 1st 2 ODIs is utilized appropriately by the selectors. 

 

India needs to have 2 legit spin-allround options for the 'home' ODI WC.  I don't know who can deliver in ODIs - is it Nitish Rana, Samad, Krunal, whoever.  But we need to start auditioning guys.  It look years of Sanjay Bangars and Rishi Dhawans to finally find a Pandya.  We don't have much time before the 2023 WC.

An alrounder won't suddenly drop for them. They will have to be exact about what they want and plan. Selectors need to identify such players with alround ability from u19, u23 and ranji trophy level. Bring them all together in a camp, talk to them what as a selector pu expect from them,communicate with them, have coaches work in their skills, pick some of them in A teams, observe others in domestic cricket and after whoever is doing pick them for team India. We have two fast bowling alrounders Abhimanyu Singh Rajput from Baroda, Darshan Nalkande from from Vidarbha both young, there are spin alrounders like Samad, Abhishek, Ninad Rathva. You need a concrete plan. 

[Sooda]

I hope Hardik is at 4 in the T20Is. It means Iyer at 5, which is low for him, but the potential scores that can be racked up with HP coming in at 4 is too good to be ignored

[sandeep]

15 minutes ago, Sooda said:

I hope Hardik is at 4 in the T20Is. It means Iyer at 5, which is low for him, but the potential scores that can be racked up with HP coming in at 4 is too good to be ignored

Don't think of T20 batting order in terms of "#4 and #5".  It has to be driven by match situation - with Hardik, you want him to bat around the 13th over or so - that way, the bowling team is likely to have a couple of overs of spin to finish before the 'death', and as we know, he has the potential to rip apart most spinners and get us those 20 run overs.  So if we are 100/1 in 11 overs, you may want to send him in.  Or if we are 20/2 or even 3 down by the 8th over, you hold him back.  He's one of the best sluggers we have - for T20, you don't want him to switch gears and all that - you want him set free to attack.  

 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

 

 

correct they do bat at very diff positions which is what kaif n yuvi did for him and he backed them knowing they are tough position where its very diff to be consistent

 

[SK_IH]

Indian limited overs side will remain incomplete until we find player similar to this freak or Buttler. Such inventivenes & penchant for scoring in different areas is needed to offset bowler's plans. Ofcourse they will not be consistent but if one can deliver 40 of 20 balls it's enough.

I think SKY can play that role in the Indian team, not seen him play reverse sweeps but he definitely is a innovative batsman. WTF is the purpose of carrying Manish Pandey with squad 

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 hour ago, SK_IH said:

Indian limited overs side will remain incomplete until we find player similar to this freak or Buttler. Such inventivenes & penchant for scoring in different areas is needed to offset bowler's plans. Ofcourse they will not be consistent but if one can deliver 40 of 20 balls it's enough.

I think SKY can play that role in the Indian team, not seen him play reverse sweeps but he definitely is a innovative batsman. WTF is the purpose of carrying Manish Pandey with squad 

 

indian fans cant value such players...even if we had maxi he wud have been abused day in day out, fans look for consistency in such player when their sole purpose is impact

[sandeep]

1 hour ago, SK_IH said:

Indian limited overs side will remain incomplete until we find player similar to this freak or Buttler. Such inventivenes & penchant for scoring in different areas is needed to offset bowler's plans. Ofcourse they will not be consistent but if one can deliver 40 of 20 balls it's enough.

I think SKY can play that role in the Indian team, not seen him play reverse sweeps but he definitely is a innovative batsman. WTF is the purpose of carrying Manish Pandey with squad 

 

I was talking SKY as a T20 option back in 2016 timeframe, back then he was even more of a sweep and flick batsman - he has now rounded his game out more.  

 

Problem for SKY is that specialist batsmen slots are clogged in T20I team.  And selectors don't select T20 players for the T20 team - they use T20 squad to 'reward' good ODI type batsmen first.  

[AuxiliA]

2 hours ago, SK_IH said:

 

 

That's looks like a switch hit not a reverse sweep, hence the power. Btw isn't that illegal? 

[sandeep]

10 minutes ago, AuxiliA said:

 

That's looks like a switch hit not a reverse sweep, hence the power. Btw isn't that illegal? 

 No it isn't.

[AuxiliA]

1 minute ago, sandeep said:

 No it isn't.

 

Ok. But that's a switch hit, right?