Timid mentality in test batting...

[Sandeep99]

Test match batting is always about ‘Survive and score’. Take Williamson for example. He does this so brilliantly. Sadly our one dimensional batsmen were only taught to survive and even that is not being done properly.

 

When was the last time we saw Indian batsmen nick easy singles to disrupt and alter the lengths in seaming conditions? Aggression comes in many ways not just 4s and 6s. 

Edited December 20, 2020 by Sandeep99

[chewy]

Any hint of swing, batsmen like Sehwag, Warner, Shaw are cannon fodder for decent bowlers. They look so tailenderesque

 

These type of opening batsmen who get out scoring ducks in first over in swinging conditions and put rest under pressure.

 

Fact remains, Ranji not producing Indian batsmen with half decent footwork.

 

 

[waga]

Can I just say as an Australian; as much as he gets hyped vs us, I don't care about Kohli, I don't care about pant, the only batsman that puts the fear of god in me is Pujara. He was the difference in the 2018/19 and 2017 series.  You could change any other player except what, Smith, and those series it turns out the same.  Those ugly slow big scores have, will and can win you test matches.

[BacktoCricaddict]

2 hours ago, Straight Drive said:

In last few minutes I have also decided this Pujara is useless. Maybe he scored 6000 against Kenya, Ireland Afghanistan and Zimbabwe.

 

My team for test for future.

 

Tripathi - He hits ball in air and attacks bowler , so what he gets out on zero. Even Sunny got out on zero at times. So what's the point of doing tuk tuk and getting out.

 

Sanju Samson - He is best suited for top 3 spot . Anywhere down in batting order and it's injustice for him. So he gets in.

 

Nitish Rana - We need a left handed batsman at any cost. He can bowl as well. Wow. Book his ticket.

 

KL Rahul - Averages 34. He can only improve from there. There is no downside left you see from there.

 

Hardik Pandya - He has the ability to take on best bowlers in world and even counter attack. 

 

Pant - I would like to replace Saha with Pant. That's my genuine selection though.

 

What a scary test lineup which will throw shivers in minds of great test pace bowlers. Who would like to be scored a four if not a six every over. 

 

 

What nonsense.  How could you forget Tewatia?  He hit Shane Cottrell with intent for 5 sixes.  He is X-factor and clutch factor rolled into one.     

[BacktoCricaddict]

It's not just about aggression or intent.  It's about knowing when and how to be aggressive.  It is about having a mix of aggressive and defensive players.  If everyone had gone full-on swing the bat mode, would it have been any different?   It is about partnerships.   Most importantly, it is about leadership and a clear vision for how each guy should play based on match situation, strengths and weaknesses and current form.  Intent only takes you so far.  Focus and execution are needed.  

 

From a broader perspective, it will be interesting to see how the team and BCCI responds.  Will it be more of the same or will some positive moves be made - getting more professional coaching, replacing past-prime players etc.? 

 

 

Edited December 20, 2020 by BacktoCricaddict

[express bowling]

A good test match line-up needs a mix of batsmen with strong defenses and attacking batsmen.

 

Pujara is perfectly fine ... Mayank can be careful ... but Rahane, Vihari, Saha at 5, 6, 7 are too slow as a group in the lower-middle order. 

 

When the ball gets older then a couple of batsmen are needed to up the ante.

 

It is the mix which is important. 

 

Having 5 right handed consolidators against pace bowling ... Mayank, Pujara, Rahane, Vihari and Saha ... Kohli the only inform batsman who can score fast against pace in tests ( Dasher Shaw is out of form ) means that the batting line-up is too one dimensional.

[Vickydev]

20 minutes ago, express bowling said:

A good test match line-up needs a mix of batsmen with strong defenses and attacking batsmen.

 

Pujara is perfectly fine ... Mayank can be careful ... but Rahane, Vihari, Saha at 5, 6, 7 are too slow as a group in the lower-middle order. 

 

When the ball gets older then a couple of batsmen are needed to up the ante.

 

It is the mix which is important. 

 

Having 5 right handed consolidators against pace bowling ... Mayank, Pujara, Rahane, Vihari and Saha ... Kohli the only inform batsman who can score fast against pace in tests ( Dasher Shaw is out of form ) means that the batting line-up is too one dimensional.

Yes numbers 5,6,7 are the big issues. Even in yesterday's debacle these guys didnt really have to face banana seam movement and should have consolidated for the poor start. Every team has a bad start when the ball is moving.. its the lower MO which should rebuild. We have mugs there

[Straight Drive]

2 hours ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

 

What nonsense.  How could you forget Tewatia?  He hit Shane Cottrell with intent for 5 sixes.  He is X-factor and clutch factor rolled into one.     

My bad. How the hell did I forget Tewatia. He should also be in the test team. Hits big sixers. He is being wasted.

[Straight Drive]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

A good test match line-up needs a mix of batsmen with strong defenses and attacking batsmen.

 

Pujara is perfectly fine ... Mayank can be careful ... but Rahane, Vihari, Saha at 5, 6, 7 are too slow as a group in the lower-middle order. 

 

When the ball gets older then a couple of batsmen are needed to up the ante.

 

It is the mix which is important. 

 

Having 5 right handed consolidators against pace bowling ... Mayank, Pujara, Rahane, Vihari and Saha ... Kohli the only inform batsman who can score fast against pace in tests ( Dasher Shaw is out of form ) means that the batting line-up is too one dimensional.

Sir, here nobody wants a balanced approach. Ghuma balla laga chakka is what everyone wants in test cricket. There is one batsman apart from Kohli we have averaging over 48. One who is not influenced by IPL , T20i and ODI cricket. Strike rate has become flavor of these times than the batting average.  And many want him to play that brand of cricket. As if we do not have enough of those type of players already. 

 

 

[GeeGaw]

I didn’t think it was possible to put together a worse test lineup than we saw the other day, but you may have achieved that difficult feat. 

[rtmohanlal]

14 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

Sehwag and Pujara?

 

What did Sehwag do in SENA? What's the use of Sehwag like batsman in such conditions? 

 

Pujara has won series in Aus, test in SA.

 

If we are looking for gun player on turners and SC, Pujara is again doing that role.

 

Sehwag averages 33 in SENA that after playing multiple series on tracks where batsmen from both sides scored 400-600 for fun. He scored century against likes of Brad Williams, Lee, Bracken on flat decks? 

 

If he had play on same tracks where Pujara has played most of the time in SENA, he would be averaging 20.

 

That mythical attacking batting of Sehwag in SENA made him walking wicket there.

Pujara averages below 32 in 4 of 'SENA + WI' . It is only  in AUS that he has a 50+ avg: that too courtesy that 1 mammoth series in 2018. 

Sehwag averaged above 46 in AUS & WI( 2  out of 5)

 

Again Sehwag is an opener  which is a bit more difficult. Again, the comparison of Pujara should be with Dravid & not with  Sehwag. It is there that Pujara pales a lot in   comparison there by underlying  the reason for the pathetic record in  SENA  in 2010-2020.

 

Pujara has been far off adequate for that  no:3  position .  Even after 10  years , to have such pathetic average in 'SENA + WI ' and still in the team  ....... should have been  dropped a lot earlier.

[rtmohanlal]

12 hours ago, waga said:

Can I just say as an Australian; as much as he gets hyped vs us, I don't care about Kohli, I don't care about pant, the only batsman that puts the fear of god in me is Pujara. He was the difference in the 2018/19 and 2017 series.  You could change any other player except what, Smith, and those series it turns out the same.  Those ugly slow big scores have, will and can win you test matches.

Pujara has  played 11 series in 'SENA + WI'  and as of now playing the 12th. Of these   it is only 2 times that he has averaged above 50. So '2 out of 11' . Just because  he won '1 series out of 11'  doesn't mean   he is a match winner.

[Ankit_sharma03]

at the end its about getting runs which ever method works for you. 

[zen]

52 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

 

 

An average of 38 in the top order in SENA is very good 

 

Opposition team Australia  or England  or New Zealand or South Africa

Home or away away (home of opposition)

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2013

Batting position between 1 and 3

Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 1000

Ordered by batting average (descending)

Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s   CJL Rogers (AUS) 2013-2015 13 24 1 1028 173 44.69 2025 50.76 3 5 1 147 1   CA Pujara (INDIA) 2013-2020 26 48 1 1783 193 37.93 4521 39.43 5 7 4 206 3   DA Warner (AUS) 2013-2019 21 39 0 1445 145 37.05 1965 73.53 3 11 4 185 13   KC Brathwaite (WI) 2013-2020 17 32 0 1179 134 36.84 2462 47.88 2 7 2 133 6   Azhar Ali (PAK) 2013-2020 21 40 3 1299 205* 35.10 3287 39.51 3 5 2 150 2   M Vijay (INDIA) 2013-2018 20 40 0 1257 146 31.42 3031 41.47 2 7 5 161 8   FDM Karunaratne (SL) 2013-2019 19 38 1 1087 152 29.37 2284 47.59 1 6 4 126 1   AN Cook (ENG) 2013-2018 19 36 1 1019 244* 29.11 2243 45.43 2 4 2 115

 

 

Pujara not only has competed with the best in the world but also is way ahead of other Ind batsmen in top order in SENA

Primary team India

Opposition team Australia  or England or New Zealand or South Africa

Home or away away (home of opposition)

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2013

Batting position between 1 and 3

Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 500

Ordered by batting average (descending)

Page 1 of 1

Showing 1 - 4 of 4

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
CA Pujara	2013-2020	26	48	1	1783	193	37.93	4521	39.43	5	7	4	206	3
M Vijay	2013-2018	20	40	0	1257	146	31.42	3031	41.47	2	7	5	161	8
S Dhawan	2013-2018	15	30	0	774	115	25.80	1343	57.63	1	2	2	98	2
KL Rahul	2014-2019	12	22	0	513	149	23.31	960	53.43	2	0	3	69	3

 

 

 

On the other hand in the MO 

Opposition team Australia  or England or New Zealand or South Africa

Home or away away (home of opposition)

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2013

Batting position between 4 and 7

Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 1000

Ordered by batting average (descending)

Page 1 of 1

Showing 1 - 7 of 7

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
SPD Smith (AUS)	2013-2019	17	31	3	1792	211	64.00	3042	58.90	6	9	1	213	17
V Kohli (INDIA)	2013-2020	28	55	1	2589	169	47.94	4679	55.33	10	9	4	305	4
JE Root (ENG)	2013-2020	20	36	3	1527	226	46.27	3013	50.68	2	12	1	172	4
AD Mathews (SL)	2013-2018	15	29	3	1143	160	43.96	2221	51.46	3	6	0	137	10
BA Stokes (ENG)	2013-2020	16	29	0	1256	258	43.31	1968	63.82	3	4	1	160	25
AM Rahane (INDIA)	2013-2020	26	50	3	1733	147	36.87	3485	49.72	3	10	4	210	8
Asad Shafiq (PAK)	2013-2020	22	41	0	1254	137	30.58	2343	53.52	3	8	5	157	6

 

 

Atm, Ind's batting relies heavily on two batsmen - Pujara in the top order and Kohli in the MO

Edited December 21, 2020 by zen

[kosingh]

7 minutes ago, zen said:

 

An average of 38 in the top order in SENA is very good 

 

Opposition team Australia  or England  or New Zealand or South Africa

Home or away away (home of opposition)

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2013

Batting position between 1 and 3

Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 1000

Ordered by batting average (descending)

Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s   CJL Rogers (AUS) 2013-2015 13 24 1 1028 173 44.69 2025 50.76 3 5 1 147 1   CA Pujara (INDIA) 2013-2020 26 48 1 1783 193 37.93 4521 39.43 5 7 4 206 3   DA Warner (AUS) 2013-2019 21 39 0 1445 145 37.05 1965 73.53 3 11 4 185 13   KC Brathwaite (WI) 2013-2020 17 32 0 1179 134 36.84 2462 47.88 2 7 2 133 6   Azhar Ali (PAK) 2013-2020 21 40 3 1299 205* 35.10 3287 39.51 3 5 2 150 2   M Vijay (INDIA) 2013-2018 20 40 0 1257 146 31.42 3031 41.47 2 7 5 161 8   FDM Karunaratne (SL) 2013-2019 19 38 1 1087 152 29.37 2284 47.59 1 6 4 126 1   AN Cook (ENG) 2013-2018 19 36 1 1019 244* 29.11 2243 45.43 2 4 2 115

 

 

Pujara not only has competed with the best in the world but also is way ahead of other Ind batsmen in top order in SENA

Primary team India

Opposition team Australia  or England or New Zealand or South Africa

Home or away away (home of opposition)

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2013

Batting position between 1 and 3

Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 500

Ordered by batting average (descending)

Page 1 of 1

Showing 1 - 4 of 4

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
CA Pujara	2013-2020	26	48	1	1783	193	37.93	4521	39.43	5	7	4	206	3
M Vijay	2013-2018	20	40	0	1257	146	31.42	3031	41.47	2	7	5	161	8
S Dhawan	2013-2018	15	30	0	774	115	25.80	1343	57.63	1	2	2	98	2
KL Rahul	2014-2019	12	22	0	513	149	23.31	960	53.43	2	0	3	69	3

 

 

 

 

I must be reading this wrong- how is Steve Smith not on your list. 

edit never mind. 1,2,3 only

Edited December 21, 2020 by kosingh

[rtmohanlal]

1 hour ago, zen said:

 

An average of 38 in the top order in SENA is very good 

 

Opposition team Australia  or England  or New Zealand or South Africa

Home or away away (home of opposition)

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2013

Batting position between 1 and 3

Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 1000

Ordered by batting average (descending)

Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s   CJL Rogers (AUS) 2013-2015 13 24 1 1028 173 44.69 2025 50.76 3 5 1 147 1   CA Pujara (INDIA) 2013-2020 26 48 1 1783 193 37.93 4521 39.43 5 7 4 206 3   DA Warner (AUS) 2013-2019 21 39 0 1445 145 37.05 1965 73.53 3 11 4 185 13   KC Brathwaite (WI) 2013-2020 17 32 0 1179 134 36.84 2462 47.88 2 7 2 133 6   Azhar Ali (PAK) 2013-2020 21 40 3 1299 205* 35.10 3287 39.51 3 5 2 150 2   M Vijay (INDIA) 2013-2018 20 40 0 1257 146 31.42 3031 41.47 2 7 5 161 8   FDM Karunaratne (SL) 2013-2019 19 38 1 1087 152 29.37 2284 47.59 1 6 4 126 1   AN Cook (ENG) 2013-2018 19 36 1 1019 244* 29.11 2243 45.43 2 4 2 115

 

 

Pujara not only has competed with the best in the world but also is way ahead of other Ind batsmen in top order in SENA

Primary team India

Opposition team Australia  or England or New Zealand or South Africa

Home or away away (home of opposition)

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2013

Batting position between 1 and 3

Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 500

Ordered by batting average (descending)

Page 1 of 1

Showing 1 - 4 of 4

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
CA Pujara	2013-2020	26	48	1	1783	193	37.93	4521	39.43	5	7	4	206	3
M Vijay	2013-2018	20	40	0	1257	146	31.42	3031	41.47	2	7	5	161	8
S Dhawan	2013-2018	15	30	0	774	115	25.80	1343	57.63	1	2	2	98	2
KL Rahul	2014-2019	12	22	0	513	149	23.31	960	53.43	2	0	3	69	3

 

 

 

On the other hand in the MO 

Opposition team Australia  or England or New Zealand or South Africa

Home or away away (home of opposition)

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2013

Batting position between 4 and 7

Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 1000

Ordered by batting average (descending)

Page 1 of 1

Showing 1 - 7 of 7

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
SPD Smith (AUS)	2013-2019	17	31	3	1792	211	64.00	3042	58.90	6	9	1	213	17
V Kohli (INDIA)	2013-2020	28	55	1	2589	169	47.94	4679	55.33	10	9	4	305	4
JE Root (ENG)	2013-2020	20	36	3	1527	226	46.27	3013	50.68	2	12	1	172	4
AD Mathews (SL)	2013-2018	15	29	3	1143	160	43.96	2221	51.46	3	6	0	137	10
BA Stokes (ENG)	2013-2020	16	29	0	1256	258	43.31	1968	63.82	3	4	1	160	25
AM Rahane (INDIA)	2013-2020	26	50	3	1733	147	36.87	3485	49.72	3	10	4	210	8
Asad Shafiq (PAK)	2013-2020	22	41	0	1254	137	30.58	2343	53.52	3	8	5	157	6

 

 

Atm, Ind's batting relies heavily on two batsmen - Pujara in the top order and Kohli in the MO

what ever it suits you.... for me it is  very simple ......  Pujara deserves credit for the last AUS series performance. Despite that ,  his country wise averages in  SENA + WI is far off from 'adequate' .That shows as to how much  poor and inconsistant he has been thru out a 10+ year career.  Averaging 20 in NZL & WI , 29 in ENG, 31  in  SAF.

51  in AUS  hugely boosted   by 1 series performance. How much poor and inconsistant a batsman can be?

 

Another loser is Rahane who needs to kicked out ASAP .

 

No wonder we could win only 1  series in SENA  in this  decade despite  having comparatively far better bowling  unit strength .

[rtmohanlal]

1 minute ago, rtmohanlal said:

what ever it suits you.... for me it is  very simple ......  Pujara deserves credit for the last AUS series performance. Despite that ,  his country wise averages in  SENA + WI is far off from 'adequate' .That shows as to how much  poor and inconsistant he has been thru out a 10+ year career.  Averaging 20 in NZL & WI , 29 in ENG, 31  in  SAF.

51  in AUS  hugely boosted   by 1 series performance. How much more poorer and inconsistant a batsman can be?

 

Another loser is Rahane who needs to kicked out ASAP .

 

No wonder we could win only 1  series in SENA  in this  decade despite  having comparatively far better bowling  unit strength .

 

[ShoonyaSifar]

Take Pujara out and we will struggle even at home. For someone playing only tests and who isn't particularly liked by Kohli, who dropped him for slow scoring, he has done quite well matching the superstar Kohli run for run in matches won in this decade. When he fails, team generally struggles as his cushion of blunting the new ball isn't available to the middle order. 

 

And then joker Kohli does stupid things like not letting him play in the D/N practice match. That's criminal leadership aimed only at hurting his Test rival.

[rtmohanlal]

3 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

Take Pujara out and we will struggle even at home. For someone playing only tests and who isn't particularly liked by Kohli, who dropped him for slow scoring, he has done quite well matching the superstar Kohli run for run in matches won in this decade. When he fails, team generally struggles as his cushion of blunting the new ball isn't available to the middle order. 

 

And then joker Kohli does stupid things like not letting him play in the D/N practice match. That's criminal leadership aimed only at hurting his Test rival.

this  is a misconception....  we have batsmen like Jadeja & Pant( whose main  discipline is not batting) who averages 50+ in domestic,  That shows there are enough replacements in domestic who can easily replace Pujara and be as successful if not more at home. Pujara has been a  failure abroad as far as SENA results go by . 

[ShoonyaSifar]

3 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

this  is a misconception....  we have batsmen like Jadeja & Pant( whose main  discipline is not batting) who averages 50+ in domestic,  That shows there are enough replacements in domestic who can easily replace Pujara and be as successful if not more at home. Pujara has been a  failure abroad as far as SENA results go by . 

Okay, I agree Pujara is worthless. Let's have our T20 team play tests as well.