50-year-old woman gang-raped, murdered in UP's Badaun; priest among three booked

[Singh bling]

https://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/2021/jan/06/50-year-old-woman-gang-raped-murdered-in-ups-badaun-priest-among-three-booked-2246243.html

 

 

[coffee_rules]

Truly despicable. They should get capital punishment 

[Gollum]

[LordPrabhzy]

Bastards need a public execution

[Laaloo]

That’s just effing sad. 

[DeepSpace]

India living up to its reputation. There is no quick solution to this. Harsh punishment will not stop future perpetrators because of the way women are viewed in Indian society especially in the lower economi class.

[putrevus]

They need to be hanged in public. Tjis is going on for too long, this so shameful..How can women live in peace in this country.

[Khota]

Capital punishment is not the solution. Women need to be viewed with utmost respect.

[someone]

More than punishment, it's basic necessities which can help...

 

The country needs more electricity, CCTVs, and thus, reduce the dark areas or vulnerable parts around. Next, from a crime taking place to actually reporting of a crime is still a challenge, given the social stigma. More protection, anonymity is needed by our law enforcements.

[Mariyam]

14 minutes ago, someone said:

More than punishment, it's basic necessities which can help...

 

The country needs more electricity, CCTVs, and thus, reduce the dark areas or vulnerable parts around. Next, from a crime taking place to actually reporting of a crime is still a challenge, given the social stigma. More protection, anonymity is needed by our law enforcements.

Have to agree with all of this!

 

Instead of even more draconian legislation, policing and basic forensic data collection has to be better. What we need is better conviction rates. Only that can induce fear.

 

In a survey carried out internally, it was found that close to 75% of the Police stations sampled did not have the technical know how or the expertise or the necessary equipment to deal with FIRs on rape cases. Vaginal swabs weren't collected. The cops asked the victim to bathe and then file an FIR! Clothes were washed etc.

All of this not due to poor training/ first response.

 

I have read a report by a TISS researcher ( hence I take it with a pinch of salt) which says that if conviction rates are not higher, ie policing/ judiciary remain as is, and laws are made more Draconian then the rapists' propensity to kill the victim increases many fold. The rapists would simply want to finish off the victim to not leave any kind of a trail. The research paper does show some empirical data to support this claim.

 

Case in point: The Hyderabad vet case, where the poor girl was burnt to death. Most people on this website hailed the cops as some sort of heroes for encountering the rapists. The same cops, form the same police station delayed the search for the girl by nearly 3-4 hours asking the girls' father and sister irrelevant questions and insinuating that she may have gone away with her lover etc. Had the cops acted on time, they may have been able to save the girl.

Edited January 7, 2021 by Mariyam

[someone]

9 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

Have to agree with all of this!

 

Instead of even more draconian legislation, policing and basic forensic data collection has to be better. What we need is better conviction rates. Only that can induce fear.

 

In a survey carried out internally, it was found that close to 75% of the Police stations sampled did not have the technical know how or the expertise or the necessary equipment to deal with FIRs on rape cases. Vaginal swabs weren't collected. The cops asked the victim to bathe and then file an FIR! Clothes were washed etc.

All of this not due to poor training/ first response.

 

I have read a report by a TISS researcher ( hence I take it with a pinch of salt) which says that if conviction rates are not higher, ie policing/ judiciary remain as is, and laws are made more Draconian then the rapists' propensity to kill the victim increases many fold. The rapists would simply want to finish off the victim to not leave any kind of a trail. The research paper does show some empirical data to support this claim.

 

Case in point: The Hyderabad vet case, where the poor girl was burnt to death. Most people on this website hailed the cops as some sort of heroes for encountering the rapists. The same cops, form the same police station delayed the search for the girl by nearly 3-4 hours asking the girls' father and sister irrelevant questions and insinuating that she may have gone away with her lover etc. Had the cops acted on time, they may have been able to save the girl.

Yes, the police suffers from both poor training and motivation. Many lack the incentive, commitment to work the details in such cases.

 

Prevention is the main solution. Majority of the crimes are opportunists , so better infrastructure, lighting conditions can help. Yet, prevention should not be about the freedom and movement of individual women.

[BacktoCricaddict]

25 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

Have to agree with all of this!

 

Instead of even more draconian legislation, policing and basic forensic data collection has to be better. What we need is better conviction rates. Only that can induce fear.

 

In a survey carried out internally, it was found that close to 75% of the Police stations sampled did not have the technical know how or the expertise or the necessary equipment to deal with FIRs on rape cases. Vaginal swabs weren't collected. The cops asked the victim to bathe and then file an FIR! Clothes were washed etc.

All of this not due to poor training/ first response.

 

I have read a report by a TISS researcher ( hence I take it with a pinch of salt) which says that if conviction rates are not higher, ie policing/ judiciary remain as is, and laws are made more Draconian then the rapists' propensity to kill the victim increases many fold. The rapists would simply want to finish off the victim to not leave any kind of a trail. The research paper does show some empirical data to support this claim.

 

Case in point: The Hyderabad vet case, where the poor girl was burnt to death. Most people on this website hailed the cops as some sort of heroes for encountering the rapists. The same cops, form the same police station delayed the search for the girl by nearly 3-4 hours asking the girls' father and sister irrelevant questions and insinuating that she may have gone away with her lover etc. Had the cops acted on time, they may have been able to save the girl.

Given all this, how confident can we be that the suspects whom the police identified are the actual perpetrators?  We understandably get angry and ask for the death penalty, or, as you said praise the police for "encountering" the suspects and killing them, but unless things are done correctly and honestly, we can never be sure who the perpetrator was.  Killing some suspect may bring closure to the public, but it only amplifies the wrongdoing by ending the life of someone who may not have committed the crime.  It may bring solace to the family of the victim to see someone pay for the crime, but will it bring peace to the soul of the victim?    

 

In the US, an organization called the Innocence Project investigates these cases and has helped overturn numerous wrongful convictions that were based on lying or mistaken witnesses.  I attended a speech by one of these exonerated criminals - he was on death-row for 19 years for a murder he did not commit.  He was lucky that they found DNA evidence to overturn his conviction, and was able to go back to his family.  Many such people's convictions are overturned, but I am sure many others are not and innocent people are put to death.  The result is that now there are 2 victims and the actual criminal is roaming free. 

 

  

 

 

Edited January 7, 2021 by BacktoCricaddict

[coffee_rules]

Agree that the crime prevention efforts have to be doubled, but a deterrent is needed for potential perps. Rapes won't stop overnight with that law. But one case where they do good analysis and give wide media coverage (not from HR activists against death penalty) from pro-death penalty opinions will work to deter or minimize the crime. 

[BacktoCricaddict]

@Mariyam

 

Here's a perfect illustration why I am vehemently opposed to the death penalty.  

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https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/05/arkansas-executed-ledell-lee-dna.html

On April 20, 2017, Ledell Lee was executed by the state of Arkansas for murder, with Lee insisting to the end that he was innocent of the crime. A new test of DNA evidence in the case, which the state refused to do before executing him, points to a different suspect than Lee. Lee was put to death four years ago as part of a rush in which Arkansas tried to execute eight people in 11 days, so that the state could use scarce lethal injection drugs before they expired. In that mad dash, four men were executed, three had their executions stayed, and one was granted clemency. Lee was one of the four put to death after Neil Gorsuch, in his first vote as a member of the Supreme Court, joined a 5–4 ruling to allow the execution to proceed. Even then, Lee’s case was considered one of the most seriously flawed, with a distinct chance that the state would be putting an innocent man to death.

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To quote a Dr. David Miles from twitter:

"No justice system is infallible. There are many good arguments against the death penalty, but not being able to correct miscarriages of justice is, for me, still the most powerful and unanswerable argument against executing people."

 

To quote a highly intelligent poster on ICF ;-): 

"In a civil society, the wrongful killing of even one person in the hands of the law is unacceptable."

Edited May 7, 2021 by BacktoCricaddict

[Vilander]

Selective use of sharia might help here. May be just the beheading part if crime is proved. 

[Khota]

1 hour ago, Vilander said:

Selective use of sharia might help here. May be just the beheading part if crime is proved. 

Sharia does not work. Countries having sharia keep their women covered and treat them like cattle.

[Vilander]

3 hours ago, Khota said:

Sharia does not work. Countries having sharia keep their women covered and treat them like cattle.

Sure.. But let's behead the scum that did this.. 

[Khota]

5 hours ago, Vilander said:

Sure.. But let's behead the scum that did this.. 

As @Mariyam pointed out, existing laws should be used upto full extent.

[BacktoCricaddict]

A rare victory, albeit partial, for justice:

 

https://innocenceproject.org/julius-jones-death-row-oklahoma-what-to-know/

 

Oklahoma’s Pardon and Parole Board voted 3-1 to recommend clemency for Julius Jones on Nov. 1. The recommendation to commute Mr. Jone’s death sentence to life in prison with the possibility of parole now goes to Oklahoma Gov. Kevin Stitt for consideration. Mr. Jones is still scheduled to be executed on Nov. 18.  Monday’s recommendation from the board reaffirmed its recommendation following a previous hearing on Sept. 13, 2021.

 

---

Julius Jones has been on death row in Oklahoma for 19 years for a 1999 murder he’s always said he had no part in. Mr. Jones, who is represented by federal attorneys Dale Baich and Amanda Bass, was convicted and sentenced to death at the age of 19 and has now spent half his life in prison, waiting to be executed for a crime that new and compelling evidence suggests he didn’t commit.

More than 6.3 million people, and counting, have signed a petition supporting Mr. Jones in his fight to prove his innocence in the killing of Paul Howell, a businessperson, in Edmond, Okla.,

 

[BacktoCricaddict]

https://innocenceproject.org/for-23-years-prosecutors-illegally-hid-evidence-that-could-have-exonerated-rodney-reed/

 

Prosecutors at Rodney Reed’s 1998 trial illegally concealed statements from Stacey Stites’s co-workers showing that Mr. Reed and Ms. Stites knew each other and were romantically involved, according to a Request for Grant of Application for Writ of Habeas Corpus filed at the 21st Judicial District Court in Bastrop County, Texas and the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals early this morning. Mr. Reed’s Application also states that the State illegally suppressed statements from Ms. Stites’s neighbors about loud domestic violence arguments between Ms. Stites and her fiancé, Jimmy Fennell, a police officer who was the prime suspect in Ms. Stites’s murder for nearly a year.

Mr. Reed’s Request for Grant of Application for Writ of Habeas Corpus can be viewed here: https://tinyurl.com/49r7e7mx

Under the U.S. Supreme Court case Brady vs. Maryland (1963), the State had an affirmative duty to turn over all evidence that was favorable to Mr. Reed’s defense. Instead, the State hid the evidence pointing to Mr. Reed’s innocence for more than two decades.

“The prosecution’s concealment of statements from Stacey Stites’s co-workers and neighbors is a textbook example of a Brady violation. The constitutional violation is as crystal clear as the remedy: Rodney Reed’s conviction and death sentence must be overturned,” said Jane Pucher, Senior Staff Attorney at the Innocence Project, and one of Mr. Reed’s attorneys.

“The constitutional violation is as crystal clear as the remedy: Rodney Reed’s conviction and death sentence must be overturned.”

At trial, prosecutors repeatedly told Mr. Reed’s jury — falsely — that investigators “talked to all these people, and not one of them … ever said she was associated with that defendant. Ever. They weren’t dating according to anyone, there weren’t friends, they weren’t associates.”

 

Like it's been stated before:

"In a civil society, the wrongful killing of even one person in the hands of the law is unacceptable."