How did Indian batting fail in relatively easier batting conditions?

[kohli]

1 hour ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

It was pathetic batting plus not even the will to change anything. Same batting order, they could have tried Jadeja at 3/4/5, Rahane at 3, Pujara at 5, Kohli himself could have come at 3, promoting Pant higher up - something to see if it works. But going by the 3 match excuse, the team had given up even before they landed

 

I did defend Pujara during the match. But no longer. The current WTC cycle has ended, as the new cycle begins, he should be on the bench vs England. But doing that would mean asking for accountability which has to start from the captain and coach first. So in effect, not much will change like after the 2019 WC SF surrender.

Good point.during ganguly captaincy whenever dravid was out of form they send vvs at 3 and dravid at 5 or 6

[Ankit_sharma03]

2 hours ago, kohli said:

Why india didn’t try rahane at no 3 & pujara at no 5 or drop pujara and play rahul at 5 , vihari at no 6. 

 

Cause it cant be just an experiment, this has to worked on for a time. If team decide this, they ll have to work a lot of things out

 

• Rahane has become way more loose , he is unreliable as any (ill say put him up n give the resposibilty of captaincy , he ll work hard n value his wkt more)
• Rahul himself has many issues against moving ball now
• Vihari has a short ball issue and vihari at 6 means jaddu out

[Nikhil_cric]

Our  batting is not good enough. Plain and simple. We can talk about tailenders not scoring enough runs and bowlers not swinging the ball etc. and even combinations a d those things do matter but the top 5 ate the biggest issue. 

When Rohit Sharma is your test opener in England, that shows the lack of batting resources in the country .

[rollingstoned]

It's concerning that they have all collectively forgotten how to construct a long innings which doesn't have that much to do with competence. You can be sure that Kohli, Rahane, Rohit, etc are in danger of giving it away if they play a few quiet overs where the bowler is bowling well. Even on pattas i don't think we will cross 400 that easily without contributions from the LO like in the Gabba test and Ahmedabad.

[R!TTER]

1 minute ago, Nikhil_cric said:

When Rohit Sharma is your test opener in England, that shows the lack of batting resources in the country .

Do you know the avg of openers in Eng since 2017-18 onwards? Barring the one off test wonders Conway I bet no one avg over 40 across 5 tests, or more! Not a fan of Sharmaji outside Asia but he's been India's best opener since Vijay retired 

[R!TTER]

5 minutes ago, rollingstoned said:

we will cross 400 that easily without contributions from the LO like in the Gabba test and Ahmedabad.

That's an issue across teams, even NZ without CDG, KJ, Southee, Wagner(?) would've folded under 200 easily! I'll add the caveat though that many of our experienced players throw it away after being set, like RGS or Rahane 

 

Kohli is a *wit, so no point hammering this point about him but more importantly Pujara is just spiraling himself out of (test) contention 

Edited June 24, 2021 by R!TTER

[Gambit]

Yes, batting did not deliver but I have a different gripe. A lot has been written about our recent pace bowling riches and the diversity of the attack, most of which is justified. In cricket history, great pace bowling attacks have defended low totals (100-150) in the 4th innings. Since the 1990s, we've seen the 2Ws do this to NZ and England, WI do this to England and India, Australia do this to England, South Africa to Australia and so on. Our spinners have done this on numerous occasions at home. 

 

Javagal Srinath did this single handedly to South Africa on a dust bowl. Why couldn't these three have bowled their hearts out and intelligently to have atleast got New Zealand to wobble before Ashwin came on? I am very underwhelmed with their performance, especially given the significance of the match. 

[goose]

3 minutes ago, Gambit said:

Yes, batting did not deliver but I have a different gripe. A lot has been written about our recent pace bowling riches and the diversity of the attack, most of which is justified. In cricket history, great pace bowling attacks have defended low totals (100-150) in the 4th innings. Since the 1990s, we've seen the 2Ws do this to NZ and England, WI do this to England and India, Australia do this to England, South Africa to Australia and so on. Our spinners have done this on numerous occasions at home. 

 

Javagal Srinath did this single handedly to South Africa on a dust bowl. Why couldn't these three have bowled their hearts out and intelligently to atleast got New Zealand to wobble before Ashwin came on? I am very underwhelmed with their performance, especially given the significance of the match. 

That's my gripe too. Ishant sent down 4 overs on the final day while the game was still on. India cannot beat Eng unless he is replaced.

[ShoonyaSifar]

2 minutes ago, Gambit said:

Yes, batting did not deliver but I have a different gripe. A lot has been written about our recent pace bowling riches and the diversity of the attack, most of which is justified. In cricket history, great pace bowling attacks have defended low totals (100-150) in the 4th innings. Since the 1990s, we've seen the 2Ws do this to NZ and England, WI do this to England and India, Australia do this to England, South Africa to Australia and so on. Our spinners have done this on numerous occasions at home. 

 

Javagal Srinath did this single handedly to South Africa on a dust bowl. Why couldn't these three have bowled their hearts out and intelligently to atleast got New Zealand to wobble before Ashwin came on? I am very underwhelmed with their performance, especially given the significance of the match. 

Kohli had given up. You could see it in the body language. Ishant started with a gingerly run up, started at innocuous 80 mph and with the new ball we hardly attacked. And then post tea, suddenly an out of sorts Bumrah was bowling, Shami who bowled a brilliant last over did not bowl for next 10 overs. That's where the game was finally done

[asterix]

Deliberate throwing away of wickets at certain intervals. 
All the targets and the time was already discussed to autopilot the test till the last 30 mins.

 

I’d said on day 4 only that India will be bowled out within an hour after the Lunch session. I was bit off the mark and they did got all out approximately an hour before tea. They had to get out at that time any more delay would’ve resulted in a draw and that was not ICC wanted and BCCI agreed for. 

 

If you see, when Jadeja and Pant were going strong, immediately message was conveyed to them at the drinks break. Both immediately perished after they break. 
 

You see Jaddu leaving all the short pitch balls will somehow Knick another short ball to keeper and wonder it was a ‘lapse of concentration’. It was that drinks break message at work not that Wagner being persistent. 
 

You think Rahane knicking one from the hip to keeper, Pujara & Kohli knicks are lapses of concentration? Who are they fooling? Effing bunch of fixers. They’ve now started fixing test matches too…

[Lord]

9 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

Kohli had given up. You could see it in the body language. Ishant started with a gingerly run up, started at innocuous 80 mph and with the new ball we hardly attacked. And then post tea, suddenly an out of sorts Bumrah was bowling, Shami who bowled a brilliant last over did not bowl for next 10 overs. That's where the game was finally done

spinners never bowled in tandem IIRC

[ShoonyaSifar]

8 minutes ago, Lord said:

spinners never bowled in tandem IIRC

Of course even though there was some turn. But captain pathetic gave up

[coffee_rules]

Because we don’t have Test specialists. All are bloody IPL stars, with no Test cricket temperament , even Pujara was picked by CSK has lost his mojo 

Edited June 24, 2021 by coffee_rules

[addicted4444]

Mental weakness percolating from the top. 

 

Of the last 5 tests India played overseas, 2 had massive batting collapses in the 3rd innings. Both were captained by Kohli. 
 

The remaining 3 matches had India showing otherworldly mental strength to win 2 and draw 1, and all 3 were captained by Rahane. 

[Lone Wolf]

Constructing the inns is a lost art.  These guys don't play domestic cricket..  So not surprising. 

 

However the problem is not this.  Picking in form players even if they are stroke makers should be encouraged.  Someone like Sundar who was in red hot form after a glorious debut at Gabba & match winning knocks on tough pitches at home vs Eng warrants a place in the side over non performing seniors like Pujara. 

 

India loses low scoring games mostly overseas...  Where not constructing the inns but critical quick runs matter.  A batsman who has good defence & solid array of strokes should be shoe in into the side. 

 

Also remain flexible in Batting order in low scoring games & don't go by method.  Use of left right combos is essential. 

 

Tailender runs matter.  Horses for courses type policy should be used.  Bumrah should be told to at least swing like a madman with the bat.  Play Golf etc.  He is worse than Chris Martin.

 

 

 

[NareshK]

Someone got the stupid idea (im guessing Kohli) that they had to go for a win and most of the batsmen played at deliveries they shouldnt have as the conditions didnt allow for free scoring. 

 

On final day, the chance of India winning was remote as there were not enough overs to bowl NZ out. Should have batted for a draw.

 

If at all, they had plans to enforce a result, they should have promoted Pant up the order, if he clicked and scored a lot of runs, then could have thought about a win and if he had got out, should have played for a draw.

[asterix]

^ They we’re not going for runs… they got out deliberately. 
 

Those balls on which they all got out were not unplayable.

[Redk84]

Think Kohli should not have gone in towards the end of Day 3...was probably an ego thing and maybe lack of trust in the rest of the team. Overall tactic should have been to protect your wicket on an easier pitch, which it was by the time we were batting.

 

Pant counter-attack was refreshing although scary at times and it was a noticeable change in tactic after lunch which went against what was actually working beforehand. Atleast if Jadeja/Pant carried on with their pre-lunch stance there could have been 10-20 more runs or NZ bowlers not building up momentum to skittle out the rest. 

 

Just did not take advantage of the moments in the game (what few we had). Didn't give ourselves a chance to be in the driving seat in the match, always playing catchup.

 

Overall Pujara does have to be questioned if he is there to be a rock, he is made of mud at the moment and it doesn't take long for him to be dusted off...both of Rahane's dismissals were disappointing seeing as he got in, as were the rest of them to be fair.

 

Not going to lambast the lower order as much but Shami apart, the bowlers need to find atleast some sort of way to contribute. Too many fine margins that distinguish the best we are falling short in at the moment

 

[Lord]

Our women's team showed far more character in that match v England

[coffee_rules]

Indian mainstay batting has sucked for last two years. It was masked by bowling who were saving their asses. Whenever bowling failed, teams looks ordinary. Mainly because Pujara and Kohli are failing and Rahane is inconsistent and gives away wicket at most times of need, the aberration in Mel was because he was dropped a couple of times