The story of how Morarji Desai got Nishaan-e-Pakistan

[coffee_rules]

 

Edited October 1, 2021 by coffee_rules

[coffee_rules]

 

[coffee_rules]

 

[coffee_rules]

I had read parts of it, but this story is plausible. Many say he was a CIA agent that’s how US got our atomic scientists like Homi Jehangir Bhabha killed by CIA, costing our nuclear program go back in years.

 

IK Gujral too was involved in outting RAW agents in Iran

[Mariyam]

I don't know anything about this topic.

However, this general trend is worrisome.

Some unverified guy on twitter writes incriminating stuff.

There are no links or sources mentioned to corroborate these claims.

People who politically stand to benefit from these claims forward this around as if it's gospel.

 

This kind of stuff is fan fiction at best.

 

[sandeep]

2 hours ago, Mariyam said:

However, this general trend is worrisome.

Some unverified guy on twitter writes incriminating stuff.

There are no links or sources mentioned to corroborate these claims.

People who politically stand to benefit from these claims forward this around as if it's gospel.

beat me to saying just this. 

 

Twitter is fertile ground for such stuff - I mean a lot of us laugh at our resident conspiracy sucker, but a lot of 'normal' folks can get sucked into such "information" that fits their confirmation bias.

[Real McCoy]

he probably got his award for drinking his own piss. must have made the padosis laugh quite a bit so they gave the award. piss-n-drink award

[mishra]

3 hours ago, Mariyam said:

I don't know anything about this topic.

However, this general trend is worrisome.

Some unverified guy on twitter writes incriminating stuff.

There are no links or sources mentioned to corroborate these claims.

People who politically stand to benefit from these claims forward this around as if it's gospel.

 

This kind of stuff is fan fiction at best.

 

There is no smoke without fire. There was a article about how Pakistan nuclear programme was red flagged by some European nations agency and Dr AQ khan was stealing secrets working in Eurooe but CIA told STFU and took over evrything. Including ensuring AQ khan returns to Pakistan. people can google it. 
 

Morarji simply mentioned that he knows what Pakistan was upto with location where they were doing it and some intricate detals. I think after that all Pakmil ISI did was vetted each and every person in that small secret rural locality and iirc it was local barber who was first one to be identified as raw agent. After that it was standard procedure and every agent was caught.

Hence Gandhian Morarji was if not antinational then biggest  fool to have ever become PM of India. 

Edited October 1, 2021 by mishra

[coffee_rules]

I said plausible as there is a lot of such chatter. Yes, Conspiracy theory till now.  But this Gandhian philosophy has screwed us a lot with Nehru as well. Indian leaders don't do FP well. Even Vajpayee went on a bus to Lahore and then Kargil happened. Modi invites Sharif to his inauguration, it never ceases.

Edited October 1, 2021 by coffee_rules

[ravishingravi]

5 hours ago, Mariyam said:

I don't know anything about this topic.

However, this general trend is worrisome.

Some unverified guy on twitter writes incriminating stuff.

There are no links or sources mentioned to corroborate these claims.

People who politically stand to benefit from these claims forward this around as if it's gospel.

 

This kind of stuff is fan fiction at best.

 

 

When institutions lose credibility, the word on street carries more traction. 

[Jimmy Cliff]

Quote

 

A jury in Chicago ruled yesterday that Seymour M. Hersh, the investigative journalist, did not libel former Prime Minister Morarji Desai of India when he described him as a paid informer for the Central Intelligence Agency.

 

After six hours of deliberations, the jury held that Mr. Desai had not shown that Mr. Hersh's assertion was false, or that it was written with reckless disregard for the truth. To win a libel suit, a public figure must show not only that the offending statement is false, but also that the writer either knew it to be false or did not care whether it was true or not. The verdict came six and a half years after the former Indian official filed his $50 million suit against Mr. Hersh in Federal District Court in Chicago.

 

In his 1983 book, ''The Price of Power: Kissinger in the Nixon White House,'' Mr. Hersh wrote that Mr. Desai, India's Prime Minister from 1977 to 1979, received $20,000 a year from the C.I.A. during the Johnson and Nixon administrations in exchange for information on Indian foreign policy and domestic politics. Mr. Hersh based his claim on information supplied by six confidential sources.

 

Mr. Desai, now 94 years old, had called the accusations ''sheer madness'' and ''a scandalous and malicious lie.'

 

'

U.S. Journalist Cleared of Libel Charge by Indian

[Jimmy Cliff]

 

 

 

 

@Real McCoy .

[Real McCoy]

1 hour ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

 

 

 

 

@Real McCoy .

its rich for susu to talk . he himself is rumored to be an american agent

[randomGuy]

Listen to this from 9 mins to 15 mins. Doval was involved in this.

[coffee_rules]

11 hours ago, Real McCoy said:

its rich for susu to talk . he himself is rumored to be an american agent

Or a Chinese agent for sure, guy has list all his marbles and credibility

[Jimmy Cliff]

45 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Or a Chinese agent for sure, guy has list all his marbles and credibility

 

Originally a Rockefeller agent with his Harvard links. Rockefeller loved Mao so Susu is fond of them too. 

 

 

[rangeelaraja]

Morarji Desai was a chela of  "Mahatma"  Gandhi and inherited his pacifist tendencies - as did scores of other "leaders" of Gandhi's time.

 

This pacifist behavior has only done harm to India and precipitated our  nature as a soft state.

 

MK Gandhi is the most overhyped and cowardly high profile political figure in our history. It is a disgrace to call him a leader.

 

He taught us to be pacifist and meek in the face of violent aggression.

 

This hypocrite urged non-violence measures for freedom struggle - while justifying the British using millions of Indian soldiers in armed combat against Germans in WWII. 

 

While the West praised him profusely for leading a non-violent 'revolution - the West never practiced non-violence themselves.  

 

History has shown only 1 thing consistently - the powerful and mighty have always been victors, while the weak and meek have been subjugated. 

 

Brute force has always trumped morals. 

 

That is why the barbaric Afghan warlords, Uzbeks and Turks invaded India. And that is why Europe colonized the world through brute force.

 

Give me a SC Bose or Sardar Patel anyday over MK Gandhi. I feel ashamed that MK Gandhi is worshipped by many in India.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 3, 2021 by rangeelaraja

[Lone Wolf]

14 hours ago, rangeelaraja said:

Morarji Desai was a chela of  "Mahatma"  Gandhi and inherited his pacifist tendencies - as did scores of other "leaders" of Gandhi's time.

 

This pacifist behavior has only done harm to India and precipitated our  nature as a soft state.

 

MK Gandhi is the most overhyped and cowardly high profile political figure in our history. It is a disgrace to call him a leader.

 

He taught us to be pacifist and meek in the face of violent aggression.

 

This hypocrite urged non-violence measures for freedom struggle - while justifying the British using millions of Indian soldiers in armed combat against Germans in WWII. 

 

While the West praised him profusely for leading a non-violent 'revolution - the West never practiced non-violence themselves.  

 

History has shown only 1 thing consistently - the powerful and mighty have always been victors, while the weak and meek have been subjugated. 

 

Brute force has always trumped morals. 

 

That is why the barbaric Afghan warlords, Uzbeks and Turks invaded India. And that is why Europe colonized the world through brute force.

 

Give me a SC Bose or Sardar Patel anyday over MK Gandhi. I feel ashamed that MK Gandhi is worshipped by many in India.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

While I agree with everything..  In hindsight Bose would have been terrible for India.  I can Imagine Allied powers punishing India for supporting Japan.  Bose probably would have been either Killed or worse. 

Kashmir would have been given to Pakistan eyes closed & Radcliffe line would look a lot different. 

Nehru's soft power helped us initially..  Until of course his China misadventure & ultra aggressive actions without any sort of planning later in 1962

[rangeelaraja]

1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said:

While I agree with everything..  In hindsight Bose would have been terrible for India.  I can Imagine Allied powers punishing India for supporting Japan.  Bose probably would have been either Killed or worse. 

Kashmir would have been given to Pakistan eyes closed & Radcliffe line would look a lot different. 

Nehru's soft power helped us initially..  Until of course his China misadventure & ultra aggressive actions without any sort of planning later in 1962

 

 

Absolutely not. 

 

If you are weak and don't show a willingness to punish anyone who feels they can violate your motherland at will with impunity - you are anyways setting up yourself to be slapped around.

 

Inspite being a much greater and older civilization - we have much to learn from Vietnam in terms of fighting external aggression and challenges to sovereignty.

 

Chinese were beaten to pulp and utterly humiliated in 1979 by Vietnam. The casualties the Chinese suffered in 1979 against Vietnam were 2 times more than the casualties Pak has suffered in all its wars with India combined. 

 

Bose was much like Ho Chin Minh, although he died before the 1979 war with China - it was the attitude he fostered helped them win the Vietnam war and then later beat the hell out of Chinicoms.

 

And the best part about his impact would have been a totally changed national mindset to external aggression.

 

Had we beaten China black and blue in 1962  in a protracted war- our psyche against them would have been much different and it would have happened had Bose been our leader.

 

The  ( negative ) differential between our national strength and China's national strength at the moment is much less than the ( positive) power differential that we have against Pakistan.

 

Yet Pak has postured itself in such a way that they will respond with tit for tat for any aggression we initiate.  And yet they initiate aggression and proxy war against us - a lot more than we against them.   

 

Why can't we do the same against China ? It is that STINK of a mindset from Nehru's time - that comes in the  way.

 

We still hear bull sh*t like  " Vasudeva Kutumbham " , Bharat  " Vishwa Guru"  and other tripe. 

 

The reality of the world is Jiski Lathi uski bhains - always has been.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 3, 2021 by rangeelaraja

[Lone Wolf]

9 hours ago, rangeelaraja said:

 

 

Absolutely not. 

 

If you are weak and don't show a willingness to punish anyone who feels they can violate your motherland at will with impunity - you are anyways setting up yourself to be slapped around.

 

Inspite being a much greater and older civilization - we have much to learn from Vietnam in terms of fighting external aggression and challenges to sovereignty.

 

Chinese were beaten to pulp and utterly humiliated in 1979 by Vietnam. The casualties the Chinese suffered in 1979 against Vietnam were 2 times more than the casualties Pak has suffered in all its wars with India combined. 

 

Bose was much like Ho Chin Minh, although he died before the 1979 war with China - it was the attitude he fostered helped them win the Vietnam war and then later beat the hell out of Chinicoms.

 

And the best part about his impact would have been a totally changed national mindset to external aggression.

 

Had we beaten China black and blue in 1962  in a protracted war- our psyche against them would have been much different and it would have happened had Bose been our leader.

 

The  ( negative ) differential between our national strength and China's national strength at the moment is much less than the ( positive) power differential that we have against Pakistan.

 

Yet Pak has postured itself in such a way that they will respond with tit for tat for any aggression we initiate.  And yet they initiate aggression and proxy war against us - a lot more than we against them.   

 

Why can't we do the same against China ? It is that STINK of a mindset from Nehru's time - that comes in the  way.

 

We still hear bull sh*t like  " Vasudeva Kutumbham " , Bharat  " Vishwa Guru"  and other tripe. 

 

The reality of the world is Jiski Lathi uski bhains - always has been.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

While I don't know how Sino Vietnam fits in there...  But if you deeply follow the whole scenario you would realise it was a long term Chinese victory.  They simply don't mind losing men in order to achieve their objective.  Throughout the war, there were no more than 125,000 to 200,000 Chinese soldiers who participated in their invasion of Vietnam which had 100,000 to 175,000 soldiers and military in its northern border. Long term, it was a Chinese success: Vietnam abandoned its campaign on Cambodia having failed to totally quash out the Khmer Rouge, Soviet intervention didn't materialize until the day it dissolved, and it lost its possessions of the Spratlys to China.

US killed a lot of Vietnamese in their own campaign & lost a lot less...  But lost the war.  Geography plays its part as it was a full blown invasion of Vietnam like Chinese did a few years later.  And they failed to achieve their objective. 

 

Another case in point is Indo Pak war of 1965...  Both Pakistan & India had almost similar numbers...  Indian troops were also stationed on Chinese border as well. 

The mountainous section of Kashmir was heavily fought...  Haji Peer Pass was captured by India after herioc attempts.  Pakistan's advance was halted.  Pakistan had made a move along Akhnoor in Jammu in order to cut J&K from rest of India & occupied some portion along the bordering area. 

India responded under Shastri to relieve the pressure from Kashmir into a full blown invasion into Pakistani Punjab its Golden goose.  Ultimately Under pressure from the west Cease fire was called.  And occupied lands were retuned back from both sides.  India had made far more gains than Pakistan but would have to give back Haji peer pass so that Pakistan will leave bordering places of Akhnooor region so that in future Jammu won't be threatened. 

From neutral POV it emerged as a Indian victory coz Pakistan's mission in Kashmir was a failure. 

Pak had a superior Air force & mechanized infantry at the time & India's win in 1965 paved the way for what happened in 1971. 

 

While there's no realistic scenario where we would have beaten China in 1962 with that outdated weaponry & in experienced Air force which had no idea how to fight a mountain war.   We learned a lot from Kargil War as how difficult it is to fight a mountain war.   This helped us in recent Indo China skirmish & our troop deployment.  Remember Aksai Chin was lost due to that same reason prior to 1962 & we didn't even fought a war there in 1962..  All the conflict happened in Eastern Ladakh. 

After the loss in 1962 we managed to access our security situation better & prepared for some sort & which helped us in 1965 in Kashmir defence. 

In 1967 under newly elected Indira Gandhi we gave a bloody nose to Chinese in Nathu la.   A future Chinese conquest of Sikkim was killed right there.   Strong leadership & planning is what we needed earlier.