If Ashwin goes wicketless in this test, should he be replaced by Vihari?

[R!TTER]

10 hours ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

Those 2 wickets at the end ensure that he'll keep his place for the remaining 2 tests.

Oh don't worry he will, otherwise his fans will riot on twitter, FB, outside BRat's apartment & probably ICF as well  

[Texan]

2 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Let us say Vihari makes a 50 again and Capetown is spin friendly. Will you drop Vihari again and bring in Ashwin since you admit it is impossible to remove the middle 3.

Yes, Ashwin should definitely play if spin friendly. I already said I don't want those 3 to play, but Kohli keeps playing them. As a pure batter, I am not yet completely convinced about Vihari but if he gets a good score, he should be retained and one of the 3 "muddle order can't bat can't bowl" should make way. 

[putrevus]

23 hours ago, Adamant said:

He is not the problem but it's ok to drop him when conditions aren't supporting spinners, this pitch was a deathbed for spinners.
We could have played Yadav or maybe Vihari.

Why?What has Ashwin done wrong in this test match.

 

I had problem with Ashwin when he was whining about him not playing in England series but once Jadeja is out Ashwin should play every test.

[Lord]

Ashwin did decent. Held an end which a part timer cant.

 

Failed as a batsman but then it was expected. Some specialist bats have been failing too.

 

But it shows why Jaddu was preferred

[diga]

Quote

Gaurav Sundararaman with a nugget: Wickets by Indian spinners in Jo'burg - Kumble 17, rest 0

Saw this in the cricinfo commentary... hmm 

[Clarke]

Ashwin: So you wanted a batsman to replace me ....

[rkt.india]

Absolutely useless.

[diga]

The above stat only says that you need to choose a spinner who bowls on the faster side ... Not sure why Ashwin doesnt realize this

[R!TTER]

The bottom line is many of these bowlers don't raise their game when we need them the most - Bumrah here & WTC final, CT final then Ashwin here & in Eng last time, Shami in Eng & SA last time. I'll repeat what I said in the past - we've lost more games due to our bowlers, especially in LO tourneys, as compares to the batters throughout our history!

[Real McCoy]

12 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

The bottom line is many of these bowlers don't raise their game when we need them the most - Bumrah here & WTC final, CT final then Ashwin here & in Eng last time, Shami in Eng & SA last time. I'll repeat what I said in the past - we've lost more games due to our bowlers, especially in LO tourneys, as compares to the batters throughout our history!

this is a ridiculous take. you cant expect bowlers to bail us out all the time. this is not a 200 pitch. we should have atleast scored 300 and looking at a fat lead going into the 3rd.

[vvvslaxman]

3 hours ago, R!TTER said:

The bottom line is many of these bowlers don't raise their game when we need them the most - Bumrah here & WTC final, CT final then Ashwin here & in Eng last time, Shami in Eng & SA last time. I'll repeat what I said in the past - we've lost more games due to our bowlers, especially in LO tourneys, as compares to the batters throughout our history!

 

SO basically you say they have to consistently suck like our batsmen lol

[R!TTER]

9 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

SO basically you say they have to consistently suck like our batsmen lol

I'm talking about historically bowling being our weakness, or letting us down in crucial moments! Is that not true or do you want me to list big games where essentially our bowlers lost us the game?

[ShoonyaSifar]

8 hours ago, diga said:

Saw this in the cricinfo commentary... hmm 

We are playing our 6th test at The Wanderers, won 2, never lost . Kumble played in 3 of them, Ashwin is playing his 2nd test here and we played an all seam attack in 2018. So it's basically Kumble 17 wickets, Ashwin 0 wickets. 

 

But his 46 in the 1st innings is as good as a hundred elsewhere. We'd have been toast without those runs from him.

[sensible-indian]

Issue is very simple with him reg this series.

 

His accuracy has clearly gone down.

 

When he bowls in the right areas, he is troubling the bats.

 

But he has bowled some garbage balls too every now and then releasing the pressure.

 

All in all.....moment of truth for Ash.

 

400 wickets is all fine and dandy.

 

Its what you do in SENA that matters (for ultimate glory).

 

He is in his prime.

 

He needs to deliver in this series.

 

And if he fails this series, he has no one but himself to blame.

 

If we have a good total to defend, I won't be surprised seeing him do well in the 4th innings.

 

Lets see.

Edited January 4, 2022 by sensible-indian

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, R!TTER said:

I'm talking about historically bowling being our weakness, or letting us down in crucial moments! Is that not true or do you want me to list big games where essentially our bowlers lost us the game?

 

Semi final we just had to chase 200 total. Pakistan chased slightly bigger total against the same NZ side relaitvely easily.  In the final on a flat patta wicket we lost 3 wickets for almost nothing. First of all you don't bowl first in a final unless you are confident of chasing any total. In TC final we got shot out for 217 & 170. We bowled them out for 249. How is it bowlers fault?  We expect our bowlers to bowl out opposition for under 200 every time all over the world. Not gonna happen. The same NZ attack that kicked our ass 6 times in a row is struggling to take wickets against Bangladesh that has no Shakib Al Hasan.  

[R!TTER]

Any decent bowling attack won't concede nearly 350 in the finals of a tournament! It's absurd your finding a justification for that, what about 2018 Eng 1st test when Curran flayed us all over the park? Brisbane 2014/15 down under when we had Oz under the ropes, entire 2011 Eng tour, same for 2011/12 Oz tour? Yeah granted the last 2-4 years the batting has been our weakspot but you're still overestimating our bowling achievements over the past decade or so 

[putrevus]

3 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Semi final we just had to chase 200 total. Pakistan chased slightly bigger total against the same NZ side relaitvely easily.  In the final on a flat patta wicket we lost 3 wickets for almost nothing. First of all you don't bowl first in a final unless you are confident of chasing any total. In TC final we got shot out for 217 & 170. We bowled them out for 249. How is it bowlers fault?  We expect our bowlers to bowl out opposition for under 200 every time all over the world. Not gonna happen. The same NZ attack that kicked our ass 6 times in a row is struggling to take wickets against Bangladesh that has no Shakib Al Hasan.  

Conditions for Semifinals and Pakistan match were very different.It was swinging like crazy early in the day when India batted in semifinals.

 

Test against Bangladesh and Indian tests against NZ were played in totally different conditions.

[Lord]

3 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

Any decent bowling attack won't concede nearly 350 in the finals of a tournament! It's absurd your finding a justification for that, what about 2018 Eng 1st test when Curran flayed us all over the park? Brisbane 2014/15 down under when we had Oz under the ropes, entire 2011 Eng tour, same for 2011/12 Oz tour? Yeah granted the last 2-4 years the batting has been our weakspot but you're still overestimating our bowling achievements over the past decade or so 

 

anyone can concede big score in ODI pattas in any game.

 

Curran flayed them apart and got them to a mighty total of 180

 

Dhoni era doesnt count.Nobody claims our bowlers were good then

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, R!TTER said:

Any decent bowling attack won't concede nearly 350 in the finals of a tournament! It's absurd your finding a justification for that, what about 2018 Eng 1st test when Curran flayed us all over the park? Brisbane 2014/15 down under when we had Oz under the ropes, entire 2011 Eng tour, same for 2011/12 Oz tour? Yeah granted the last 2-4 years the batting has been our weakspot but you're still overestimating our bowling achievements over the past decade or so 

 

For curran flaying us all over you have to thank Gabbar. He put down an easy catch and was laughing.  You just have to search matches across different series. Almost entire Indian batting has been missing series after series in SENA except sometimes in SENA.  2011/12 tour we lost wickets to Moeen Ali if i am right by playing fattu shots against him. In the last 5 yeasr out of 89 times we have bowled out a side 40 times under 200.  During the same period India got bowled out under 200, 22 times out of 59 times.  Bowling average and Batting average clearly reflect on that.

 

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

13 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Conditions for Semifinals and Pakistan match were very different.It was swinging like crazy early in the day when India batted in semifinals.

 

Test against Bangladesh and Indian tests against NZ were played in totally different conditions.

 

I know about NZ conditions. Batting gets better as the game goes on. NZ made 348. We got rolled over under 200 runs. 3rd innings. No excuse for failing  6 times in a row.