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Indians have forgotten how to bat against any kind of spin


jf1gp_1

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1 hour ago, jf1gp_1 said:

Almost every batsman including Rohit and Virat look at sea when it comes to playing a spinner on a spin friendly track. 

 

Not one batsman knows how to game after game dominate spinners 

Rohit and Virat can't even play seam,gun barrel fast they will put it away based on timing(that too will fade away,infact is rapidly fading already)

 

They are duds if their is hint of movement or spin

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We were as good as we were ever. Comparing with pre IPL era cricketers makes zero sense. Spinners are doing more variations and bowling quick through air, are hiding the ball better than earlier. These things matter. In test cricket (conventional spin) we see the difference between quality of sides.

 

When in doubt, check when was the last time a SEA nation last won a test series in India.

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7 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Ability to play against the spin is gone. Forget about against the spin even into the spin we struggle. Tendulkar, Laxman used to do that on the onside. Sehwag, Azharuddin used to do that on the offside

Tendulkar had some weakness vs spin. He would struggle in drs era vs spin imo. 

 

Vvs can play but it will still be tough in drs era for him too. 

Definitely both are elightyears ahead of anyone in our team barring pant. 

 

Pant solos all of them. 

Imo pant is the most impactful and best batsman of india since Tendulkar. 

Pant may go down as one of the greatest ever.

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In every era, we used to have players which were brutal against spin (Ganguly, Sehwag, Tendulkar), and due to their impact the opposition spinners always remain defensive. Even our other batters playing alongside them were decent against spin (except Yuvi).

 

Sadly, in our current setup, we are lacking such aggressive hitters. Rohit,KL, Kohli, Rahane all are average to poor against spin. Pujara is the one who is solid but he isn't brutal thus he lacks that impact.

We tried mayank in Indian pitches and he immediately took attack to the spinners, unfortunately his overseas failures went against him.

Currently we have Pant and Iyer who are brutal against spin. But Pant is now injured for a long period and Iyer is yet to make his permanent place in the XI.

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1 hour ago, speedracer said:

Tendulkar had some weakness vs spin. He would struggle in drs era vs spin imo. 

 

Vvs can play but it will still be tough in drs era for him too. 

Definitely both are elightyears ahead of anyone in our team barring pant. 

 

Pant solos all of them. 

Imo pant is the most impactful and best batsman of india since Tendulkar. 

Pant may go down as one of the greatest ever.

 

Tendulkar struggled against ordinary spinners in the backend of his career.  In the 90s he played spin with ridiculous ease.  Qadir who was supposed to be a wizard was smashed for 4 sixes. Later at Chepauk on day 4 pitch againt Warne, he played some audacious shots against turn. He had nimble feet movement. He hardly played with pads. Having said that Sehwag was, will always be the best player against spin world has ever seen. 

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32 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Tendulkar struggled against ordinary spinners in the backend of his career.  In the 90s he played spin with ridiculous ease.  Qadir who was supposed to be a wizard was smashed for 4 sixes. Later at Chepauk on day 4 pitch againt Warne, he played some audacious shots against turn. He had nimble feet movement. He hardly played with pads. Having said that Sehwag was, will always be the best player against spin world has ever seen. 

Non drs wra though. Would be interesting to see them dance vs prime jaddu and prime ash in India. 

 

Our brutal pace bowling would be an interesting threat too. 

 

Still would obviously be better than any of the current gen batsmen. 

 

Imagine Tendulkar vvs and co supported by our goat Asian pace and spin attack of 2015-2021 and still counting. I don't see us losing in that 2003-2011 period vs anyone even away from home. 

 

Would have won 08 vs Aussies. Wouldn't have lost at home in 04. Would have beaten Aussies then. Possible win in 2003 if we had bumrah shami siraj instead of zak and agarkar etc. 

Would beat SA in 2007 away. Would have won at home vs them in 08. 

Would never lose to pak. 

 

 

Edited by speedracer
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1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said:

In every era, we used to have players which were brutal against spin (Ganguly, Sehwag, Tendulkar), and due to their impact the opposition spinners always remain defensive. Even our other batters playing alongside them were decent against spin (except Yuvi).

 

Sadly, in our current setup, we are lacking such aggressive hitters. Rohit,KL, Kohli, Rahane all are average to poor against spin. Pujara is the one who is solid but he isn't brutal thus he lacks that impact.

We tried mayank in Indian pitches and he immediately took attack to the spinners, unfortunately his overseas failures went against him.

Currently we have Pant and Iyer who are brutal against spin. But Pant is now injured for a long period and Iyer is yet to make his permanent place in the XI.

Jaiswal

Patidar

Sarfraz

Bharat 

Sundar

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In limited over cricket I'll put it down to lack of innovation...  Our players don't play reverse sweeps,  lap shots or even conventional sweeps to target to make the spinner try something different. 

 

Hence quicker through the air spinners like Shadab,  Nawaz,  Theekshana Hasranga or Zampa trouble us. 

England diapatches these quicker spinners coz of wide array of strokes these guys have. 

Root is so talented he would be called 360 degree or Abdv in India. 

Forget about Ben Duckett who is Maxwell on steroids with his reverse sweeps. 

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I have seen India struggle in SL against spin with Tendulkar, Dravid, etc. Usually, only Sehwag stood up and his assaults allowed others to settle in as well. 
 

At a test in Mumbai, Michael Clark took 6 wkts iirc (one of the reasons I don’t rate Indian spinners much as their records are heavily influenced by turners). 
 

Nicke Boje spun SA to a series win in India iirc. Talking about SA, India collapsed against Harris in SA too. 
 

Turners are not ideal for cricket (once in a while if there is such a pitch, it is understandable). 

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On 1/28/2023 at 9:11 AM, vvvslaxman said:

 

Tendulkar struggled against ordinary spinners in the backend of his career.  In the 90s he played spin with ridiculous ease.  Qadir who was supposed to be a wizard was smashed for 4 sixes. Later at Chepauk on day 4 pitch againt Warne, he played some audacious shots against turn. He had nimble feet movement. He hardly played with pads. Having said that Sehwag was, will always be the best player against spin world has ever seen. 

Qadir was smashed by all Indians, he was left out of side in 1987 in Bangalore on a Bunsen burner , that itself shows how much value Qadir had against any Indian side.So don't take too much stock of Tendulkar hitting Qadir in a exhibition match,same thing with Warne, he never had much success against India.

 

Tendulkar was okay against spin.But as you rightly said Sehwag is  the best player of spin ever from any country.Lara comes second.

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People are not getting the point here I think. Indians even ATG batsmen have struggled against average spinners on dustbowls which is a fact.

 

however on flat pitches (not yesterdays pitch obviously) our batsmen used to destroy part time spinners or even good spinners especially in LOIs. I have seen Dhoni, Raina etc take down even Murali in LOIs.

 

these days bar 1-3 players everyone is meek vs even part time bowlers.

 

Iyer, Tripathi and to some extent Hooda play spinners with disdain like old school Indian players.

 

Rayudu was another  guy who  could destroy good spinners.

 

Pandya early on but after his first big back injury has lost that ability even though his hitting against pace somewhat improved.

 

SKY is SKY. Doesn’t have any weaknesses except his high risk game.

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30 minutes ago, maniac said:

People are not getting the point here I think. Indians even ATG batsmen have struggled against average spinners on dustbowls which is a fact.

 

however on flat pitches (not yesterdays pitch obviously) our batsmen used to destroy part time spinners or even good spinners especially in LOIs. I have seen Dhoni, Raina etc take down even Murali in LOIs.

 

these days bar 1-3 players everyone is meek vs even part time bowlers.

 

Iyer, Tripathi and to some extent Hooda play spinners with disdain like old school Indian players.

 

Rayudu was another  guy who  could destroy good spinners.

 

Pandya early on but after his first big back injury has lost that ability even though his hitting against pace somewhat improved.

 

SKY is SKY. Doesn’t have any weaknesses except his high risk game.

 

There are different types of treacherous pitches. One is unplayable. Other one is playable but difficult, Then slightly difficult slow turner  Current crop will fail in all.  The threshold is seriously low for the current crop.

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40 minutes ago, maniac said:

People are not getting the point here I think. Indians even ATG batsmen have struggled against average spinners on dustbowls which is a fact.

 

however on flat pitches (not yesterdays pitch obviously) our batsmen used to destroy part time spinners or even good spinners especially in LOIs. I have seen Dhoni, Raina etc take down even Murali in LOIs.

 

these days bar 1-3 players everyone is meek vs even part time bowlers.

 

Iyer, Tripathi and to some extent Hooda play spinners with disdain like old school Indian players.

 

Rayudu was another  guy who  could destroy good spinners.

 

Pandya early on but after his first big back injury has lost that ability even though his hitting against pace somewhat improved.

 

SKY is SKY. Doesn’t have any weaknesses except his high risk game.


The OP is specifically talking about “Almost every batsman including Rohit and Virat look at sea when it comes to playing a spinner on a spin friendly track. 

 

In the recent series against SL, a team that depends on its spinners, on “flat pitches”, SL spinners in general were more or less ineffective. 
 

Edited by zen
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