Hatsoff to Jadeja and Ashwin - Golden combination for Indian test cricket

[Gambit]

90s Indian fans prayed for bowlers averaging less than 25, explosive wicket keepers and all-rounders like RSA had. In the last 20 years, our prayers have been answered on all counts but probably the most pivotal was the pairing of Ashwin and Jadeja (wrt to test cricket). They are four players, not two, equivalent to cheat codes. Almost all ATGs have some chink in their armour (Lillee 6 wickets in Asia, Murali averaging 45 in India/75 in Oz, Warne's average in India, Clouderson averaging 30 away from home), so big deal if these two haven't performed in some countries. They are ATGs for me.

[Bigg Brother]

Jaddu played in Lords test 2014 (just 2nd year of his test career) ,scored 68 important runs in 2nd innings and took 3 wickets in total. The pitch was green mamba. He did his best, was economical, responded to Dhoni's weird strategy standing very far behind stumps. It is beyond stupid to blame Jaddu for playing selectively. The pitch was like this, 

 

 

 

 

[sensible-indian]

@zen

 

Since you love "stats" so MUCH...

 

Batting Average of Pujara in SENA - 33

Bowling Average of Ashwin in SENA - 39

Bowling Average of Jadeja in SENA - 37

 

Zen: "Pujara is a BEAST. Ashwin & jaddu suck. Cos Pujara improved and played good knocks later. You don't understand stats."

 

Post 2018 (when we started touring SENA again post 2015)

 

Batting Average of Pujara in SENA - 35

Bowling Average of Ashwin in SENA - 30

Bowling Average of Jadeja in SENA - 33

 

And this is excluding their batting exploits. In fact, Jaddu's batting average in SENA post 2018 is higher than Pujara.

 

Zen: 

 

 

 

You are NOT good at stats or analysis or anything.

 

But you are world class at being oblivious to reality.

 

If there was an Olympic medal for that, you will surely bring glory to India. 

 

-----

 

@Vilander Not feeding the troll. Just having fun with this dude. Now watch him desperately run some stats filter and come back with more comedy gold.

[raki05]

2 hours ago, sensible-indian said:

@zen

 

Since you love "stats" so MUCH...

 

Batting Average of Pujara in SENA - 33

Bowling Average of Ashwin in SENA - 39

Bowling Average of Jadeja in SENA - 37

 

Zen: "Pujara is a BEAST. Ashwin & jaddu suck. Cos Pujara improved and played good knocks later. You don't understand stats."

 

Post 2018 (when we started touring SENA again post 2015)

 

Batting Average of Pujara in SENA - 35

Bowling Average of Ashwin in SENA - 30

Bowling Average of Jadeja in SENA - 33

 

And this is excluding their batting exploits. In fact, Jaddu's batting average in SENA post 2018 is higher than Pujara.

 

Zen: 

 

 

 

You are NOT good at stats or analysis or anything.

 

But you are world class at being oblivious to reality.

 

If there was an Olympic medal for that, you will surely bring glory to India. 

 

-----

 

@Vilander Not feeding the troll. Just having fun with this dude. Now watch him desperately run some stats filter and come back with more comedy gold.

Everytime I see a thread stretched more than 5 page than I know a certain individual has entered..

 

 

 

Edited February 21, 2023 by raki05

[coffee_rules]

11 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Gujara looked out of depth in Bangladesh lol Ashwin outbatted him and won the match from 74/7.  Scored runs only on flat pitch in the first test.  There are many instances where these 2 put their hands up. 

 

This is Ashwin's very first Test in England. Second top score in first innings. Top score in 2nd innings. Where was this guy Gujara? When the conditions are tough to bat on i would rather trust Ashwin/Jaddu over Pujara easily.

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/india-tour-of-england-2014-667693/england-vs-india-4th-investec-test-667717/full-scorecard

Jadeja+Aah is rearguard and not mainstay Their batting  is effective in a team for many other reasons than cricketing abilities. Bowlers and players are tired and pitch eased up as well. Bowlers and fielders are fresh when TO is batting. In the first test, when India reached 400, Australia dropped 3 or 4 chances during LO batting and the lower order performed better than TO. It doesn’t mean they are better batsmen , just effective as a team. But, as a fan, I value their batting as gold. Just that, these rearguards are happening too often to make us uncomfortable 

Edited February 21, 2023 by coffee_rules

[zen]

6 hours ago, sensible-indian said:

@zen

 

Since you love "stats" so MUCH...

 

Batting Average of Pujara in SENA - 33

Bowling Average of Ashwin in SENA - 39

Bowling Average of Jadeja in SENA - 37

 

Zen: "Pujara is a BEAST. Ashwin & jaddu suck. Cos Pujara improved and played good knocks later. You don't understand stats."

 

Post 2018 (when we started touring SENA again post 2015)

 

Batting Average of Pujara in SENA - 35

Bowling Average of Ashwin in SENA - 30

Bowling Average of Jadeja in SENA - 33

 

And this is excluding their batting exploits. In fact, Jaddu's batting average in SENA post 2018 is higher than Pujar

 

-----

 

Ashwin & Jadeja have been exposed. There is nothing left to salvage for them so I guess you want to drag in other players like a typical sore loser 

 

The more you post, the more it display your ignorance about not only stats but also cricket. People know the difficulty of batting in the top order (#1-3), playing out the first session, in SENA. 

 

Here are the stats:

 

top order

Home or away away (home of opposition)  or neutral venue

Host country Australia  or England  or New Zealand  or South Africa

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2013

Batting position between 1 and 3

Qualifications innings batted greater than or equal to 30

Ordered by batting average (descending)

P

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
KC Brathwaite (WI)	2013-2022	19	36	0	1375	134	38.19	2877	47.79	3	8	2	153	7
DA Warner (AUS)	2013-2019	21	39	0	1445	145	37.05	1965	73.53	3	11	4	185	13
Azhar Ali (PAK)	2013-2021	23	42	3	1430	205*	36.66	3579	39.95	3	6	2	166	2
KS Williamson (NZ)	2013-2022	17	33	3	1070	166	35.66	2176	49.17	3	4	2	141	1
CA Pujara (IND)	2013-2022	38	71	2	2448	193	35.47	6473	37.81	5	14	5	299	3
M Vijay (IND)	2013-2018	20	40	0	1257	146	31.42	3031	41.47	2	7	5	161	8
FDM Karunaratne (SL)	2013-2021	21	42	1	1220	152	29.75	2472	49.35	2	6	4	150	1
KL Rahul (IND)	2014-2022	19	36	0	1054	149	29.27	2240	47.05	4	2	4	142	6
AN Cook (ENG)	2013-2018	19	36	1	1019	244*	29.11	2243	45.43	2	4	2	115	0
D Elgar (SA)	2016-2023	18	34	0	935	140	27.50	2159	43.30	3	3	4	125	1
S Dhawan (IND)	2013-2018	15	30	0	774	115	25.80	1343	57.63	1	2	2	98	2
TWM Latham (NZ)	2015-2022	16	31	1	715	84	23.83	1713	41.73	0	5	4	89	1

 

 

That is what that "33" or whatever you posted in the top order means. 

 

 

Quote

@Vilander Not feeding the troll. Just having fun with this dude. Now watch him desperately run some stats filter and come back with more comedy gold.

 

Always good to see trolls, many can be traced to a certain region, getting trolled. 

 

 

 

Edited February 21, 2023 by zen

[zen]

Btw, if I act like certain ignorant folks to post stats without even considering a decent sample size, then even Vihari outbowled these guys

 

Host country Australia  or England  or New Zealand  or South Africa

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2013

Type of bowler (by style) spin bowler

Qualifications wickets taken greater than or equal to 5

Ordered by bowling average (ascending)

 

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
GH Vihari	2018-2022	11	7	45.3	9	132	5	3/37	3/38	26.40	2.90	54.6	0	0
Kuldeep Yadav	2018-2019	2	2	40.5	7	143	5	5/99	5/99	28.60	3.50	49.0	1	0
R Ashwin	2013-2022	21	37	804.3	145	2189	61	4/55	7/121	35.88	2.72	79.1	0	0
RA Jadeja	2013-2022	19	33	684.5	129	1822	48	6/138	7/258	37.95	2.66	85.6	1	0

 

 

Kuldeep has a 5-er in just 2 innings

 

 

Edited February 21, 2023 by zen

[ungboysj]

1 hour ago, zen said:

Btw, if I act like certain ignorant folks to post stats without even considering a decent sample size, then even Vihari outbowled these guys

 

Host country Australia  or England  or New Zealand  or South Africa

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2013

Type of bowler (by style) spin bowler

Qualifications wickets taken greater than or equal to 5

Ordered by bowling average (ascending)

 

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
GH Vihari	2018-2022	11	7	45.3	9	132	5	3/37	3/38	26.40	2.90	54.6	0	0
Kuldeep Yadav	2018-2019	2	2	40.5	7	143	5	5/99	5/99	28.60	3.50	49.0	1	0
R Ashwin	2013-2022	21	37	804.3	145	2189	61	4/55	7/121	35.88	2.72	79.1	0	0
RA Jadeja	2013-2022	19	33	684.5	129	1822	48	6/138	7/258	37.95	2.66	85.6	1	0

 

 

Kuldeep has a 5-er in just 2 innings

 

 

bhai itna bada dhakkan hia to

 

do kaudi ke slogger pandya ka puja karta hia aur jo actual main great hai jadeja ashwin unki burai karta hai.

 

really senseless person

[vvvslaxman]

 

[vvvslaxman]

6 players there!! India plays with 14 players every match at home That is why they are invincible despite having crappy top order

[vvvslaxman]

This is excluding their batting

 

 

Edited February 21, 2023 by vvvslaxman

[zen]

3 hours ago, ungboysj said:

bhai itna bada dhakkan hia to

 

do kaudi ke slogger pandya ka puja karta hia aur jo actual main great hai jadeja ashwin unki burai karta hai.

 

really senseless person

 

keep your fake greats that need tailored conditions to perform with you and take your hate elsewhere ... 

[vvvslaxman]

https://www.sportskeeda.com/cricket/news-nathan-lyon-ravichandran-ashwin-ian-chappell-australian-spinner-s-bowling-exploits-ind-vs-aus-test-series

 

"Nathan Lyon is not Ravichandran Ashwin" - Ian Chappell on the Australian spinner's bowling exploits in IND vs AUS Test series

Chappell added:

 

Ravichandran Ashwin and Ravindra Jadeja have bowled a lot in India and know exactly what to do here. If you look at Ashwin, he is a very fine bowler, and it doesn't matter where he bowls. He bowls extremely well in Australia as well. He is also very smart and works on exactly what to do.

"Jadeja doesn't vary too much. He has learned a few things and improved his bowling. He has got the skill set which is perfect for India. The two of them work together."

[Vilander]

8 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

 

This is epic man. 

[Gollum]

5fers, 4fers, 3fers, 100s vs 90s, what's the big difference? Look at the impact, match situation, context etc. For instance taking wickets against the tail when match is all but sealed (or imminent declaration, dull draw) isn't the same as taking out top batsmen when something is at stake....that's why blindly posting stats has no meaning.

 

Ashwin set up the match in first innings in both the Adelaide and MCG (in fact day one first hour) tests, that our batsmen weren't able to capitalize in Adelaide, and gazillion dropped catches when we had them at 120/7 didn't help. Jaddu brought us back from the dead with his bowling in 1st innings in SCG (this whole series against Aussie first  XI). Ashwin vs Eng on day 1 in Edgbaston, or in Cape Town 2018. Just because they were 4fers and not 5fers does it matter? Sometimes batsmen failed to step up, or catchers didn't support (eg. 8-9 dropped catches in those 2 innings of Cape Town test), how does the blame fall on those who did their jobs?

 

Similarly Jaddu with his 100 in Eng (after they rolled over our top order), his 55 in MCG (must have played 150 balls) when match was precariously placed, or Ashwin's epic SCG blockathon to save the match on final day, stats don't always capture everything. Iyer's 4th innings knock in Bangladesh recently was only 20 odd but only those who followed that phase of play would be able to appreciate what he did that day. 

Edited February 22, 2023 by Gollum

[zen]

21 minutes ago, Gollum said:

5fers, 4fers, 3fers, 100s vs 90s, what's the big difference? Look at the impact, match situation, context etc. For instance taking wickets against the tail when match is all but sealed (or imminent declaration, dull draw) isn't the same as taking out top batsmen when something is at stake....that's why blindly posting stats has no meaning.

 

Ashwin set up the match in first innings in both the Adelaide and MCG (in fact day one first hour) tests, that our batsmen weren't able to capitalize in Adelaide, and gazillion dropped catches when we had them at 120/7 didn't help. Jaddu brought us back from the dead with his bowling in 1st innings in SCG (this whole series against Aussie first  XI). Ashwin vs Eng on day 1 in Edgbaston, or in Cape Town 2018. Just because they were 4fers and not 5fers does it matter? Sometimes batsmen failed to step up, or catchers didn't support (eg. 8-9 dropped catches in those 2 innings of Cape Town test), how does the blame fall on those who did their jobs?

 

Similarly Jaddu with his 100 in Eng (after they rolled over our top order), his 55 in MCG (must have played 150 balls) when match was precariously placed, or Ashwin's epic SCG blockathon to save the match on final day, stats don't always capture everything. Iyer's 4th innings knock in Bangladesh recently was only 20 odd but only those who followed that phase of play would be able to appreciate what he did that day. 

 

Good points but stats is about overall big picture ... Certain things are common across most cricketers and in every game there is something or the other happening. If you look at any cricketer who has played long enough, he would have something interesting. Vihari too for e.g. Rahane despite his relatively poor overall record esp. in the last few years, on what he is judged, he has a 100 in Melbourne. Currently, KL is a hot topic but he has 100s (his moments) too. 

 

It cannot be like for these two, because they do well in bankable conditions (probably not even helping to develop Indian cricket), they are looked differently. While some players, esp. batsmen, who have to pay the price for playing on turners, impacting their averages (for e.g. Iyer failed in trying to play an unnatural game, SKY debut is seen as a failure because he happened to play on a turner versus a relatively sporting pitch where he could have been more successful. SKY may not even get another chance). And then in SENA, these batsmen have to take on a different challenge. 

 

 

Edited February 22, 2023 by zen

[Vijy]

25 minutes ago, Gollum said:

5fers, 4fers, 3fers, 100s vs 90s, what's the big difference? Look at the impact, match situation, context etc. For instance taking wickets against the tail when match is all but sealed (or imminent declaration, dull draw) isn't the same as taking out top batsmen when something is at stake....that's why blindly posting stats has no meaning.

 

Ashwin set up the match in first innings in both the Adelaide and MCG (in fact day one first hour) tests, that our batsmen weren't able to capitalize in Adelaide, and gazillion dropped catches when we had them at 120/7 didn't help. Jaddu brought us back from the dead with his bowling in 1st innings in SCG (this whole series against Aussie first  XI). Ashwin vs Eng on day 1 in Edgbaston, or in Cape Town 2018. Just because they were 4fers and not 5fers does it matter? Sometimes batsmen failed to step up, or catchers didn't support (eg. 8-9 dropped catches in those 2 innings of Cape Town test), how does the blame fall on those who did their jobs?

 

Similarly Jaddu with his 100 in Eng (after they rolled over our top order), his 55 in MCG (must have played 150 balls) when match was precariously placed, or Ashwin's epic SCG blockathon to save the match on final day, stats don't always capture everything. Iyer's 4th innings knock in Bangladesh recently was only 20 odd but only those who followed that phase of play would be able to appreciate what he did that day. 

vishy's 90 is regarded as one of the ATGs despite not being a 100.

[vvvslaxman]

54 minutes ago, Gollum said:

5fers, 4fers, 3fers, 100s vs 90s, what's the big difference? Look at the impact, match situation, context etc. For instance taking wickets against the tail when match is all but sealed (or imminent declaration, dull draw) isn't the same as taking out top batsmen when something is at stake....that's why blindly posting stats has no meaning.

 

Ashwin set up the match in first innings in both the Adelaide and MCG (in fact day one first hour) tests, that our batsmen weren't able to capitalize in Adelaide, and gazillion dropped catches when we had them at 120/7 didn't help. Jaddu brought us back from the dead with his bowling in 1st innings in SCG (this whole series against Aussie first  XI). Ashwin vs Eng on day 1 in Edgbaston, or in Cape Town 2018. Just because they were 4fers and not 5fers does it matter? Sometimes batsmen failed to step up, or catchers didn't support (eg. 8-9 dropped catches in those 2 innings of Cape Town test), how does the blame fall on those who did their jobs?

 

Similarly Jaddu with his 100 in Eng (after they rolled over our top order), his 55 in MCG (must have played 150 balls) when match was precariously placed, or Ashwin's epic SCG blockathon to save the match on final day, stats don't always capture everything. Iyer's 4th innings knock in Bangladesh recently was only 20 odd but only those who followed that phase of play would be able to appreciate what he did that day. 

 

 

Besides Ashwin is not even a regular in SENA

 

Since Ashwin's debut

 

India in England 16 tests  Ashwin 7 tests

India in NZ           4 tests  Ashwin 1 test

India in SA            8 tests  Ashwin 6 tests

India in OZ          16 tests  Ashwin 10 tests

 

out of 44 tests he has played only 24 tests. Barely over 50%.  India's strategy switched to 4+1 a reason why we are doing very well there.  We don't even need spinners overseas. Generally we are greeted with seamers track, bouncy track mostly. Jaddu mainly plays as an all rounder.  For the record Jaddu's batting average in England is more than Gujara and Rahane.

[speedracer]

6 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

 

Besides Ashwin is not even a regular in SENA

 

Since Ashwin's debut

 

India in England 16 tests  Ashwin 7 tests

India in NZ           4 tests  Ashwin 1 test

India in SA            8 tests  Ashwin 6 tests

India in OZ          16 tests  Ashwin 10 tests

 

out of 44 tests he has played only 24 tests. Barely over 50%.  India's strategy switched to 4+1 a reason why we are doing very well there.  We don't even need spinners overseas. Generally we are greeted with seamers track, bouncy track mostly. Jaddu mainly plays as an all rounder.  For the record Jaddu's batting average in England is more than Gujara and Rahane.

Ash is poor only in SA. Good in aus. Good in England. 

Ok in nz. Pitches don't suit him there. 

[vvvslaxman]

3 hours ago, speedracer said:

Ash is poor only in SA. Good in aus. Good in England. 

Ok in nz. Pitches don't suit him there. 

 

Even in SA his record would have been better but for dropped catches. Anyway Kookaburra balls are not that effective on those pitches. Even current world T20 India's spin force is not being effective. Seamers are doing the damage mostly.