Operation sindoor

[Norman]

1 minute ago, Vickydev said:

So many lives lost, the assault on Poonch is disheartening

 

Likes of @Muloghonto and @speed_thrills will call it "fair enough". 

[G_B_]

From a Pakistan POV. They have a huge geographic disadvantage. India were able to strike 100km into Punjab without much loss of life suggests that the Hq9 appears to be a flop.

 

This should surely provide India incentive to make A 200KM Pinaka and just pin targets without much fuss.

[Lord]

https://english.mathrubhumi.com/news/india/who-is-hilal-ahmed-first-indian-to-fly-rafale-key-player-in-operation-sindoor-wqjugz84

[MechEng]

22 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Nothing in their official account. I don't care about any conspiracy theorist online says with name dropping. Even if they have downed, we shouldn't care as losses are expected in any escalation. The point is of the escalation instead of sitting and dwindling thumbs sending dossiers to UN or dushman mulk.

 

Thanks. Wanted to double check from a neutral location since there is already a narrative that India is censoring their losses.

 

Anyways, high time to quit X now. The psyops is going to get filthy and harm your mind.

[rangeelaraja]

If we have lost 2 or more Rafales to Pak then they’re certainly extremely hyped up. F35s are way superior to Rafales. 

[ravishingravi]

 

[coffee_rules]

29 minutes ago, sandeep said:

They maintain a running count on the internet of their ejection seats, its gone up by 4, one of which was explicitly accounted for. 3 haven't been. Yet. 

 

Not saying that all 3 are IAF losses. But we have independent corroborating videos in Bhatinda and Pampore.  Occam's Razor says its likely to be IAF losses. 

 

Not saying we can or should assume anything. And its clearly not definitive, but its indicative.

 

Also, IAF sources were 'leaking' notifications yesterday evening that all PILOTS are safe, not all planes.  Another minor bread-crumb.

 

Guys like Nitin Gokhale, Shiv Aroor started tweeting about how equipment/asset losses are not important in this exchange, its more about the objective etc etc. 

 

There's plenty of indicative information. 

 

And again, I don't want to assert anything conclusive. And I also believe that even if we lost a plane or 2 its a small price worth paying.  Still makes the Op an overall success. 

exactly, at this point, it is more to trust the confidence of the operation , rather than speculating on the losses and doubting if the operation was credible. Losses are expected, but was it is right to attack? It is the right thing to do with the limited options we have.

 

As an aside, I don't understand why are some Indians obsessed to know how many planes India lost? It is just a statistic in the long term. 

[G_B_]

I have seen pictures of drop tanks. Not seen a footage of an actual wreck.

[G_B_]

1 minute ago, coffee_rules said:

exactly, at this point, it is more to trust the confidence of the operation , rather than speculating on the losses and doubting if the operation was credible. Losses are expected, but was it is right to attack? It is the right thing to do with the limited options we have.

 

As an aside, I don't understand why are some Indians obsessed to know how many planes India lost? It is just a statistic in the long term. 

 

disagree

 

The value of those jets is 500 million (if rafale) cumulatively. If Indian social media is to be believed, the Su30 has done a great job.

 

If you are losing 3 to 5 jets of value and you have taken out 9 terror sites and killed 26, the rate of return is not great.

 

I agree that India needed to do something. But there needs to be a probe. If numbers are such against Pakistan then what happens vs China? 

 

That too keep in mind they have been shot inside Indian territory. I can understand they were shot down over Pakistan.

 

 

 

 

[ravishingravi]

7 minutes ago, G_B_ said:

 

disagree

 

The value of those jets is 500 million (if rafale) cumulatively. If Indian social media is to be believed, the Su30 has done a great job.

 

If you are losing 3 to 5 jets of value and you have taken out 9 terror sites and killed 26, the rate of return is not great.

 

I agree that India needed to do something. But there needs to be a probe. If numbers are such against Pakistan then what happens vs China? 

 

That too keep in mind they have been shot inside Indian territory. I can understand they were shot down over Pakistan.

 

 

 

 

 

Certainly needed analysis. That's not for today. And that will certainly taken onboard by folks concerned. Fact is, this confrontation was also necessary to do a SWOT. It is good to know where you stand. What's on paper and what's on ground. But not for today. Not even for next couple of months. With each set piece we are also testing the weapons. 

Edited May 7, 2025 by ravishingravi

[randomGuy]

35 minutes ago, Vickydev said:

So many lives lost, the assault on Poonch is disheartening

This.

 

Some saying 1500-2000 dead in indian attack in pakistan today. The more the better as a lesson for pakmil.

 

A fighter jet loss, even if true, probably costs ~200 cr to build in india, is minuscule compared to the 12-15 loss of life in poonch.

[rangeelaraja]

Just now, randomGuy said:

This.

 

Some saying 1500-2000 dead in indian attack in pakistan today. The more the better as a lesson for pakmil.

 

A fighter jet loss, even if true, probably costs ~200 cr to build in india, is minuscule compared to the 12-15 loss of life in poonch.

Source ? Sounds too far fetched. 

[sandeep]

13 minutes ago, G_B_ said:

 

disagree

 

The value of those jets is 500 million (if rafale) cumulatively. If Indian social media is to be believed, the Su30 has done a great job.

 

If you are losing 3 to 5 jets of value and you have taken out 9 terror sites and killed 26, the rate of return is not great.

 

I agree that India needed to do something. But there needs to be a probe. If numbers are such against Pakistan then what happens vs China? 

 

That too keep in mind they have been shot inside Indian territory. I can understand they were shot down over Pakistan.

 

 

 

 

agree that losing planes is "not great" but thats a post-mortem for a later date. 

 

of course they are shot down over our territory. Missiles dont care about lines on a map. BVR range determines vulnerability.  It is what it is.  IAF is behind the curve on quality, quantity - hopefully there is accountability later on about why Pak was so successful in hitting our planes.

[mishra]

41 minutes ago, G_B_ said:

Whatever the position is, India needs to clarify on the jets in detail once operation Sindoor is over. 

 

Most foreign media like Rueters are creating a narrative that India has paid a price (ranging from 3 to 5)  for these strikes. Local papers like The Hindu aid in this.

 

India has only 36 rafale. If GoI can show all 36 are present then it kills a lot of speculation on the spot. 

 

I think a Mirage 2000 may have been lost. This is my gut feeling. It still needs to be investigated how they were able to shoot a jet from inside Indian territory.

 

Maybe some of the knowledgeable posters can clarify, why we continue to use the airforce in strikes given that the geographic distances are not that much. Why not use land based Brahmos with a limited payload. I am trying to understand. Army seems to be limited to retaliatory artillery strikes.

They don’t need to react to unverified reports and Pakistani claims. Its just psyops. It also gives Pakistani a way to get out of this war hysteria on their side

[sandeep]

54 minutes ago, putrevus said:

You don't have to agree my views but stop being a moron by getting personal.

 

I never asked you to agree with me. 

how exactly did I get personal?  I guess you want to dodge the question since it was pointed enough to expose your particular "agenda". 

 

btw, you're the pathetic one who's resorting to name-calling.  This isn't a kiddie school yard. You're an adult. Demonstrate the ability to disagree and have a discussion without being a retard.

 

 

Edited May 7, 2025 by sandeep

[coffee_rules]

19 minutes ago, G_B_ said:

 

disagree

 

The value of those jets is 500 million (if rafale) cumulatively. If Indian social media is to be believed, the Su30 has done a great job.

 

If you are losing 3 to 5 jets of value and you have taken out 9 terror sites and killed 26, the rate of return is not great.

 

I agree that India needed to do something. But there needs to be a probe. If numbers are such against Pakistan then what happens vs China? 

 

That too keep in mind they have been shot inside Indian territory. I can understand they were shot down over Pakistan.

 

 

 

 

Yes, the cost analysis will be a concern for the IAF, GoI, but for laymen, we need to first have confidence  on if we did the right thing to attack. Who knows what Goi does to prepare looking at downed data. I seriously doubt if we lost Rafales. I don't think even India thinks it is ready for a war with China. 

 

Having said that, I will very much rule out India accepting they lost any planes. From a National Security pov, they can never release such data in the name of transparency. Why should it be transparent in that matter? Showng weaknesses is detrimental to future war efforst.

Edited May 7, 2025 by coffee_rules

[sandeep]

10 minutes ago, ravishingravi said:

 

Certainly needed analysis. That's not for today. And that will certainly taken onboard by folks concerned. Fact is, this confrontation was also necessary to do a SWOT. It is good to know where you stand. What's on paper and what's on ground. But not for today. Not even for next couple of months. With each set piece we are also testing the weapons. 

yep, better that we lost a couple of jets against greenbros, than getting completely annihilated in a future skirmish with the PLAA.  IAF has been a laggard in modernizing for decades. I see it as a silver lining that their flaws and failures get spotlighted.

[raki05]

53 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Ghode ki mooh se suno..

 

 

Lol Stalin, Owaisi showing all their deshbhakti now…. Owaisi is on a mission looks like he will hog all hindu votes also from kangress in next assembli election.

[sandeep]

2 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Yes, the cost analysis will be a concern for the IAF, GoI, but for laymen, we need to first have confidence  on if we did the right thing to attack. Who knows what Goi does to prepare looking at downed data. I seriously doubt if we lost Rafales. I don't think even India thinks it is ready for a war with China. 

our army and air force keep getting "surprised".  even by a much weaker adversary in Pak.  THere was very little accountability after 2019 and the loss of our jet and pilot.  In fact IAF Chief publicly made excuses like 'if only we had Rafales we'd have shown them'. what BS.  I mean, if you need to catalogue shopping and use that as an excuse for failure against a senemy like Pak, shame on you. 

 

And now again, gaping flaws in our air defense tactics have possibly been taken advantage of, and cost us some machines.  I still say, cheap lesson learnt, but only if we actually learn from it and start addressing the issues.

[G_B_]

3 minutes ago, mishra said:

They don’t need to react to unverified reports and Pakistani claims. Its just psyops. It also gives Pakistani a way to get out of this war hysteria on their side

As i said, let the operation be over.

 

Pakistan simply cannot deny (like uri etc) india has struck 100km inside their territory. Its accepted.

 

Unlike 2019 when they captured abhinandan they also have no direct proof that jets were downed given indian jets have not left indian territory. They can only claim.

 

So this has been designed by Iaf to ensure Pakistan can claim but not verify.

 

However, ultimately we can overwhelm pakistan. We cannot do so with china. So if losses have happened this needs to be asked why.