Our so called Fast Bowlers

[express bowling]

1)  Yesterday , the test match was into its 5th day, effectively 4th day because about 3 sessions were washed out.  Typically, on a standard test pitch, the first 3 days are for fast bowlers and the last 2 are for spinners, as the pitch becomes slower and cracks appear.

 

The primary responsibility yesterday , for taking wickets, lay with the spinners. The pacers had done well in the first 4 days actually. ( As did Ashwin ) The very easy pace of the last day pitch made it very difficult for everyone.  This is not a videogame and actual playing conditions should be assessed.

 

Blaming just the fast bowlers, without saying anything about the spinners, makes no sense.  If blamed, it should be both spinners and pacers.

 

2)  Yesterday was a disappointing day. But, we have to keep in mind that an entire day was washed out and results usually become very difficult in such a case . We drew the test match and did not lose it.  We are still up 1-0 in a away test tour. We should assess things in perspective.

Expecting the WI not to do well even for 1 day,  if the pitch eases out, would not be right.  The new WI batsmen batted very well and that has to be appreciated too.

 

3)  That being said, both our spinners and pacers should work with Kumble, to see what they did wrong and rectify those mistakes in the next test.

Edited August 4, 2016 by express bowling

[tweaker]

I am disappointed with Yadav performance.He is not improving with each game.If he is put under pressure,he is not able to perform better.He has good bouncer,good Yorker,but he is not using it intelligently.I would like him replaced with Thakur or Bhubaneswar in next game

[Asim]

What suddenly happened, till 18 hours ago 'indian fast' bowlers, according to indian fans, were way ahead of Pakistani fast bowlers...

[express bowling]

8 minutes ago, Asim said:

What suddenly happened, till 18 hours ago 'indian fast' bowlers, according to indian fans, were way ahead of Pakistani fast bowlers...

Fast bowlers can be better than the current lot of Pakistani pacers  but still need improvement.  Your pacers are hardly an aspirational  benchmark nowadays.

[MechEng]

Chalo, now that West Indies successfully drew the test match, hopefully expecting them to play the next test with greater enthusiasm and bring life to this series.

[SLICKR392]

3 hours ago, Asim said:

What suddenly happened, till 18 hours ago 'indian fast' bowlers, according to indian fans, were way ahead of Pakistani fast bowlers...

Indian fans? ek banda ne boldiya to, Indian fans? Sit down, bhaijaan!

 

@topic 

It wasn't a bad performance, this trio isn't working. I had absolutely no hope in that pace merchant Yadav anyway who was apparently slower than Ishant. Need 2 new seamer to partner Shami. These 2 clearly use only one head of the 2, and it's not the head above the waist. 

[mishra]

3 hours ago, express bowling said:

1)  Yesterday , the test match was into its 5th day, effectively 4th day because about 3 sessions were washed out.  Typically, on a standard test pitch, the first 3 days are for fast bowlers and the last 2 are for spinners, as the pitch becomes slower and cracks appear.

 

The primary responsibility yesterday , for taking wickets, lay with the spinners. The pacers had done well in the first 4 days actually. ( As did Ashwin ) The very easy pace of the last day pitch made it very difficult for everyone.  This is not a videogame and actual playing conditions should be assessed.
Blaming just the fast bowlers, without saying anything about the spinners, makes no sense.  If blamed, it should be both spinners and pacers.

2)  Yesterday was a disappointing day. But, we have to keep in mind that an entire day was washed out and results usually become very difficult in such a case . We drew the test match and did not lose it.  We are still up 1-0 in a away test tour. We should assess things in perspective.

Expecting the WI not to do well even for 1 day,  if the pitch eases out, would not be right.  The new WI batsmen batted very well and that has to be appreciated too.

 

3)  That being said, both our spinners and pacers should work with Kumble, to see what they did wrong and rectify those mistakes in the next test.

 

1. There wasnt any grass

2. There wasnt any variable bounce

3.There wasnt any seam movement.

4. There werent any spots on wickets with cracks

5. Pitch was slow. Slow enough for ball to come onto bat.

6. Apart from last 20-30 mins all the cracks just held together. Groundsmen did a fantastic job

 

a. Our pacers were fierce. What would have been a ball to leave was being hoit for 4. They all bowled around 140K+-%2 throughout. On day 4 they were unplayable not because of pitch but because of moisture in air. Day 5 and even moisture was gone

 

b. Too much to expect from spinners. Pitch was phatta. Some of the shots played by Windies batsmen against our spinners looked amazing. They pulled it off because pitch was just too slow. Jaddu may have been better on day 5 but he would have probably managed 1 more wicket to our list of 2 wickets.

 

[Asim]

1 hour ago, SLICKR392 said:

Indian fans? ek banda ne boldiya to, Indian fans? Sit down, bhaijaan!

 

@topic 

It wasn't a bad performance, this trio isn't working. I had absolutely no hope in that pace merchant Yadav anyway who was apparently slower than Ishant. Need 2 new seamer to partner Shami. These 2 clearly use only one head of the 2, and it's not the head above the waist. 

Jin fans ki bat ho rahi hey woh smjh gaey bhaijan ap tension na lo ;)

[sandeep]

Someone made the point about spinners should have been more effective.  And they are 100% right.  Mishra and Ashwin were unable to get it done.  

 

For all of Ashwin's big talk of learning, this and that.  Wear this one on your chest like a medal.  And the Jo'burg test.  Yeah he's got a lot of 5-fers.  But when the team needs you to get a couple of breakthroughs on D5 of a test.  You didn't deliver.  

[G_B_]

no point singling them out...

 

this was a 4th day pitch (even if you consider the overs lost)... its usually when the spinners have a greater say

[beautifulgame]

no point singling them out...

 

this was a 4th day pitch (even if you consider the overs lost)... its usually when the spinners have a greater say

Problem is even on the first day with a ground hugely conductive to pacers we still relied on Ashwin to take wickets .

Our fast bowlers can't bowl unless helped by conditions .Good bowlers try to make things happen if it's unhelpful wkt but our lot just give up and bowl rubbish .

This has been our issue ever since Zaheer retired .He could get wickets by consistently working Batsmen with plans even if it's a flat wicket .The likes of Ishant and Umesh despite being 5-10 years in international cricket has zero idea what that means .

This has been our major for years .Relying on spinners to test matches on these wickets Which usually get flat over the course of match and mostly conductive to fast bowlers is never going to be successful strategy .

That's why we failed to win I Joberg NZL and now here .

Unless we find fast bowlers who can take wickets even in unhelpful conditions and flat pitches , the ambitions to win test series in countries like Aus and SA is going to remain pipe dream.Whether we play 5 bowlers or 10 bowlers .

[Tibarn]

1 hour ago, beautifulgame said:

Problem is even on the first day with a ground hugely conductive to pacers we still relied on Ashwin to take wickets .

Our fast bowlers can't bowl unless helped by conditions .Good bowlers try to make things happen if it's unhelpful wkt but our lot just give up and bowl rubbish .

This has been our issue ever since Zaheer retired .He could get wickets by consistently working Batsmen with plans even if it's a flat wicket .The likes of Ishant and Umesh despite being 5-10 years in international cricket has zero idea what that means .

This has been our major for years .Relying on spinners to test matches on these wickets Which usually get flat over the course of match and mostly conductive to fast bowlers is never going to be successful strategy .

That's why we failed to win I Joberg NZL and now here .

Unless we find fast bowlers who can take wickets even in unhelpful conditions and flat pitches , the ambitions to win test series in countries like Aus and SA is going to remain pipe dream.Whether we play 5 bowlers or 10 bowlers .

This is inaccurate. Zaheer has been as mediocre as the rest of the fast bowlers. His average and strike rate are nothing special except in NZ and Eng.

 http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/30102.html?class=1;template=results;type=bowling

This, to an extent, disproves that he could consistently get batsmen out on flat wickets. Furthermore, he was on the SA, NZ, and the previous AUS(2012) tour where he didn't do much there as well. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

Sourav ganguly-

"I think Kohli needs to use Umesh a lot better. I think he is a far better bowler than that. He only bowled 12 overs. I know when you play with five bowlers, one of them gets slightly under-bowled.

“But I think he has got to use Umesh as a wicket-taking bowler. He has got a lot of ability. But all said and done, more than the Indians, you have to give credit to the likes of Blackwood, Chase, Dowrich and Holder. They showed lot of guts, a lot of fight, they were exceptional. I have seen series turned this way. 

"I don't see any changes in the Indian team. They will go with the same side in the third Test. They are playing at St. Lucia and I think that will be a result-oriented wicket. Kohli just has to use the bowlers a bit better. Ashwin has been exceptional, Mishra has been a bit unlucky. The fast bowlers have bowled well. Kohli needs to use Umesh as an attacking bowler."

Full article- http://www.sportskeeda.com/cricket/india-vs-west-indies-2016-sourav-ganguly-points-out-flaws-virat-kohlis-strategy

 

 

[Adi_91]

59 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Sourav ganguly-

"I think Kohli needs to use Umesh a lot better. I think he is a far better bowler than that. He only bowled 12 overs. I know when you play with five bowlers, one of them gets slightly under-bowled.

“But I think he has got to use Umesh as a wicket-taking bowler. He has got a lot of ability. But all said and done, more than the Indians, you have to give credit to the likes of Blackwood, Chase, Dowrich and Holder. They showed lot of guts, a lot of fight, they were exceptional. I have seen series turned this way. 

"I don't see any changes in the Indian team. They will go with the same side in the third Test. They are playing at St. Lucia and I think that will be a result-oriented wicket. Kohli just has to use the bowlers a bit better. Ashwin has been exceptional, Mishra has been a bit unlucky. The fast bowlers have bowled well. Kohli needs to use Umesh as an attacking bowler."

Full article- http://www.sportskeeda.com/cricket/india-vs-west-indies-2016-sourav-ganguly-points-out-flaws-virat-kohlis-strategy

 

 

Dada makes a good point. I felt that Kohli underused Umesh in both the innings, maybe the attacking Blackwood was the reason. But, still he should have showed some more belief in Umesh since he was playing.

[Vilander]

was a heavy roller used prior to day 5 and kept in wraps. 

[sandeep]

Ganguly - one of the most limited captains in terms of on-field tactics giving advice to Virat.  All gangu would have done is have spin on one end and pace on the other.  and then nothing.  

[mishra]

4 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Ganguly - one of the most limited captains in terms of on-field tactics giving advice to Virat.  All gangu would have done is have spin on one end and pace on the other.  and then nothing.  

As Warne said. Its not about batting or bowling. Allways make it 1 vs 11. Current team hasnt got guys to make it 1 vs 11. Apart from Kohli and Mishra who could be hear swearing, everyone else played like gentleman and expecting to be guided.

 

Dada would have picked fight with batsmen, Verbally abused the players. Would have used bowlers better. Would have done some homework. Saying that, Dada had luxury of one of the best players of the game who could instantly feed back what is needed.

 

Kohli hasnt got anyone to give onfiled/strategy advise

[sandeep]

4 minutes ago, mishra said:

As Warne said. Its not about batting or bowling. Allways make it 1 vs 11. Current team hasnt got guys to make it 1 vs 11. Apart from Kohli and Mishra who could be hear swearing, everyone else played like gentleman and expecting to be guided.

 

Dada would have picked fight with batsmen, Verbally abused the players. Would have used bowlers better. Would have done some homework. Saying that, Dada had luxury of one of the best players of the game who could instantly feed back what is needed.

 

Kohli hasnt got anyone to give onfiled/strategy advise

Dada also had the option of one of the best part-time all-sorts spinner ever, who made some seriously under-rated contributions to some famous test wins.  

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p3HaKOZRDo

 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

46 minutes ago, mishra said:

As Warne said. Its not about batting or bowling. Allways make it 1 vs 11. Current team hasnt got guys to make it 1 vs 11. Apart from Kohli and Mishra who could be hear swearing, everyone else played like gentleman and expecting to be guided.

 

Dada would have picked fight with batsmen, Verbally abused the players. Would have used bowlers better. Would have done some homework. Saying that, Dada had luxury of one of the best players of the game who could instantly feed back what is needed.

 

Kohli hasnt got anyone to give onfiled/strategy advise

Under Dada we had the mohali draw 

Yes sourav , dhoni, rahul, kumble all had seniors to advice him. Kohli most senior man is Ishant

Rest all are as exp as him and most not even half

 

But i agree with that umesh needs to be used in more attacking way, im not up for the idea of not giving Umesh the new ball. If ishant has to bowl the containing line then please bowl him as 1st change

Edited August 5, 2016 by Ankit_sharma03

[maniac]

4 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Under Dada we had the mohali draw 

Yes sourav , dhoni, rahul, kumble all had seniors to advice him. Kohli most senior man is Ishant

Rest all are as exp as him and most not even half

 

But i agree with that umesh needs to be used in more attacking way, im not up for the idea of not giving Umesh the new ball. If ishant has to bowl the containing line then please bowl him as 1st change

You bring an ATGX1 fast bowlers to advise a bowler....at the end of the day a bowler has to pitch the ball in the right area.

 

McGrath practice with a coin is already legendary......Forget Wasim or Waqar,take someone like Malinga who is 2 notches below,can nail the perfect yorker 9/10 times because of constant practice.

 

Sreeshanth had one of the best seam positions ever for a fast bowler but he was all over the place.....Umesh has a good outswinger which explains his drifting down the leg side because he just cannot pitch the ball in the right area....Ishant can swing the ball in and extract awkward bounce but he is constantly short and wide......the inherent skills are there but why can't these mofos practice their stock ball and develop some patience