New guy Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 (edited) People keep claiming that India was always bad overseas so the recent bad performances on away tour is no big deal. However, we had seen a marked improvement in our overseas tour after 2000s for at least 10 years. Here's a look at our performance away in that decade which caused us to be ranked no 1 http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/team/6.html?class=1;spanmax1=31+Dec+2010;spanmin1=01+Jan+2001;spanval1=span;template=results;type=team in Australia 2003-2008 8 2 3 0 3 0.666 39.73 3.36 16 705 161 in Bangladesh 2004-2010 6 5 0 0 1 - 53.41 3.94 9 610 243 in England 2002-2007 7 2 1 0 4 2.000 42.46 3.29 12 664 201 in India 2001-2010 50 24 7 0 19 3.428 41.07 3.27 90 726 76 in New Zealand 2002-2009 5 1 2 0 2 0.500 33.18 3.28 10 520 99 in Pakistan 2004-2006 6 2 2 0 2 1.000 50.60 4.02 9 675 238 in South Africa 2001-2010 7 2 4 0 1 0.500 26.60 3.22 14 459 136 in Sri Lanka 2001-2010 9 3 5 0 1 0.600 31.32 3.16 17 707 138 in West Indies 2002-2006 9 2 2 0 5 1.000 35.13 2.98 15 588 102 in Zimbabwe 2001-2005 4 3 1 0 0 3.000 36.76 3.30 7 554 234 In Australia - Played 8 - won 2- lost 3- drew 3. This included a 1-1 series tie and the controversial 2-1 loss where Kumble questioned the spirit of cricket and we got Bucknoered. No other team came even close, in the same period England played 10 matches, won 1, lost 9 Bangladesh - Played 6 - won 5 - lost 0 - drew 1 In England - Played 7 - Won 2 - lost 1 - drew 4 This included a series win in England. In New zealand - Played 5 - Won 1 - Lost 2 - Drew 2 For some time NZ was our toughest tour. However, under Dhoni we won the series 1-0 in 2009 In Pakistan - Played 6, won 2, lost 2, drew 2 In South Africa - Played 7, won 2, lost 4, drew 1 In our last series in SA we drew the series 1-1 under Dhoni In Sri Lanka - Played 9, won 3, lost 5, drew 1 Surprisingly, for a long time Sri Lanka was our biggest nemesis away from home WI - - Played 9, won 2, lost 2, drew 5 Zim - Played 4, won 4, lost 1 We surprisingly lost one test to Zim in this decade Well, the highlight would be - we were improving our overseas performance every day. We started winning in places like England, WI and NZ and drew in SA and Aus. Even when we lost the series, they were well fought with lots of draws. There was no whitewashes at all. So when after this decade, our overseas performance completely nose-dived, there was a genuine reason for concern and a big disappointment for fans who believed we had finally started competing overseas What happened post 2010? in Australia 2011-2015 8 0 6 0 2 0.000 30.09 3.22 16 475 161 in Bangladesh 2015-2015 1 0 0 0 1 0.000 77.00 4.46 1 462 - in England 2011-2014 9 1 7 0 1 0.142 25.65 3.13 18 457 94 in India 2011-2016 27 21 2 0 4 10.500 41.28 3.40 45 759 142 in New Zealand 2014-2014 2 0 1 0 1 0.000 35.51 3.76 4 438 202 in South Africa 2011-2013 3 0 1 0 2 0.000 33.73 2.88 6 421 223 in Sri Lanka 2015-2015 3 2 1 0 0 2.000 30.87 3.26 6 393 112 in West Indies 2011-2016 7 3 0 0 4 - 36.68 3.11 10 566 201 Our win loss ratio completely nose-dived with Sri Lanka being our only saving grace. 0% win loss ratio in Aus, SA, NZ. 14% in England. In previous decade all of these were above 30% and England and Australia we had close to/over 40% win-loss ratio for a decade When fans complain that our overseas record has nose-dived and then some other fans claim that we were always so bad. Some fans claim fab 4 didnt do anything overseas. I would like them to see these numbers. We were on an improvement spree overseas. We were improving every day. Our bowlers were doing good. We were starting to see results. And then suddenly we took a backward turn and nose-dived. Why? Did we lose interests in tests overall? Did we play too many matches? Did IPL have an impact (IPL started in 2008). FAB 4 on the verge of retiring/retired? If we want to improve our overseas performance, we have to find out what changed after 2010. Edited December 30, 2016 by New guy Laaloo, adi B, G_B_ and 6 others 9 Link to comment
Sidhoni Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Small correction : we won 2 and lost 1 in Eng from '00-'10. You wrotr the reverse. New guy and Rasgulla 2 Link to comment
New guy Posted December 30, 2016 Author Share Posted December 30, 2016 35 minutes ago, Sidhoni said: Small correction : we won 2 and lost 1 in Eng from '00-'10. You wrotr the reverse. I did. Thanks! Link to comment
Vilander Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 nice compilation, stick the thread somewhere so that we can point to it if someone says we were always crap overseas. sandeep and New guy 2 Link to comment
putrevus Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 (edited) You have remove both Bangladesh and Zimbabwe both were minnows and those wins mask the deficiencies of this team.The link you gave is high point of their performances.They have winning record only against one team which is England where they won two tests. Mind you they faced Australia without Warne and Mcgrath during this period who knows what would their record would have been if both were present. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/team/6.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=2;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=default;spanmax1=31+Dec+2010;spanmin1=01+Jan+2001;spanval1=span;template=results;type=team It took them four years from 1996 to get to that point.Reality is they lost more tests in two series than they ever won in their whole careers. If you compare high water mark of other teams ,you can easily see Indian teams with Fab four are the poorest travellers of all greatest teams of every country in terms of performance.As a fan you can understand rebuilding and losing if it leads to greatness but during fab four era it never led to any greatness. Yes they lacked bowlers to win them matches but they never helped their bowlers either. Edited December 30, 2016 by putrevus Link to comment
express bowling Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 (edited) In the 2000s decade, we did decently in test matches outside Asia ( excluding Zimbabwe ) and had a win-loss ratio of 0.67. We won 8 tests and lost 12. With only one strike-pacer per team, that is a good achievement. We were helped by 4 or 5 good batsmen and captains at their peaks during most tours. If we can tour with a captain at his peak....2 strike-pacers.....4 good batsmen...we can achieve much more. Opposition team Australia or England or New Zealand or South Africa or West Indies Home or away away (home of opposition) Start of match date between 1 Jan 2000 and 31 Dec 2009 Totals in terms of batting team Ordered by matches won (descending) Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 1 of 1 First Previous Next Last Return to query menuCleared query menu Overall figures Team Span Mat Won Lost Tied Draw W/L Ave RPO Inns HS LS India 2000-2009 35 8 12 0 15 0.666 35.49 3.21 65 705 99 http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=2;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;orderby=won;spanmax2=31+Dec+2009;spanmin2=01+Jan+2000;spanval2=span;team=6;template=results;type=team Edited December 30, 2016 by express bowling Mosher, sandeep, AuxiliA and 1 other 4 Link to comment
New guy Posted December 30, 2016 Author Share Posted December 30, 2016 (edited) 17 minutes ago, putrevus said: You have remove both Bangladesh and Zimbabwe both were minnows and those wins mask the deficiencies of this team.The link you gave is high point of their performances.They have winning record only against one team which is England where they won two tests. Mind you they faced Australia without Warne and Mcgrath during this period who knows what would their record would have been if both were present. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/team/6.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=2;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=default;spanmax1=31+Dec+2010;spanmin1=01+Jan+2001;spanval1=span;template=results;type=team It took them four years from 1996 to get to that point.Reality is they lost more tests in two series than they ever won in their whole careers. If you compare high water mark of other teams ,you can easily see Indian teams with Fab four are the poorest travellers of all greatest teams of every country in terms of performance.As a fan you can understand rebuilding and losing if it leads to greatness but during fab four era it never led to any greatness. Yes they lacked bowlers to win them matches but they never helped their bowlers either. What has Warne ever done against our team that we keep bringing it up? Australia was invincible at home during that period. Ad because of our lack of bowling we batted out a lot of draw which we should have won with better bowlers. We have lost the art of drawing too after that period You talk about greatness but the greatest Australian team of all time lost in India. Somehow that is never held against them Edited December 30, 2016 by New guy AuxiliA, gattaca and sandeep 3 Link to comment
putrevus Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 (edited) 16 minutes ago, New guy said: What has Warne ever done against our team that we keep bringing it up? Australia was invincible at home during that period. Ad because of our lack of bowling we batted out a lot of draw which we should have won with better bowlers. We have lost the art of drawing too after that period Warne might not have done anything great against India but he sure would have been better than Stuart Mcagill or Brad Hogg. During that time every other country had their weaker teams except Srilanka. You do not need art of drawing matches if team is going for wins and loses some in the processes every fan would sign up for it. People have short memories when they were screaming about England series losses in 2014, fab four era when they were starting were whitewashed in Australia 1999 ,lost 0-2 in South Africa in 1997 (66 and 100 all out in Durban). Compare them with new guys who were competitive in all series and tests except England . Indian Bowling especially fast bowling was better during 2001-2009. Edited December 30, 2016 by putrevus Link to comment
putrevus Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 26 minutes ago, New guy said: What has Warne ever done against our team that we keep bringing it up? Australia was invincible at home during that period. Ad because of our lack of bowling we batted out a lot of draw which we should have won with better bowlers. We have lost the art of drawing too after that period You talk about greatness but the greatest Australian team of all time lost in India. Somehow that is never held against them Australian team won a series in India with fab four in 2004, what else you need from a team they won everywhere both in ODIs and tests. Link to comment
MCcricket Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 2010 to 2014 Dhoni effect took place n we played bad, before that n after that we were good, plz post records in which Dhoni is captain. Infact if you leave aside SA India might be the best tourer as far as performances abroad if you leave the period where Dhoni was captain after 2000 Rasgulla 1 Link to comment
MCcricket Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2139790-cricket-statistics-ms-dhonis-test-record-as-india-captain-away-from-home India's Test Record Away From Home Under Notable Captains Captain M W D L Win % Sourav Ganguly 28 11 7 10 39% Rahul Dravid 17 5 8 4 29% MS Dhoni 25 6 8 11 24% Nawab of Pataudi 13 3 0 10 23% Bishan Bedi 14 3 3 8 21% Kapil Dev 14 2 9 3 14% Sunil Gavaskar 18 2 10 6 11% Mohammad Azharuddin 27 1 16 10 4% Sachin Tendulkar 13 0 7 6 0% ESPN Cricinfo As shown in the table above, only adi B and express bowling 2 Link to comment
Jimmy Cliff Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Quote What happened post 2010? Most of our stalwarts declined/retired (Viru, Gambo, RD, SRT, VVS, Zak) at roughly the same time which is a recipe for a disaster. Link to comment
BeautifulGame Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 That drawn series in Australia ,they had a bowling attack of Brad willams Macgill and Bracken. We really should have won that series .That was our best chance to win in Australia , we had 5 of our greatest players in that XI,arguably at their peak, and yet we still messed up. Also even the 2008 series we screwed up ourselves .Not playing Sehwag in the first 2 tests , opening with Dravid to accommodate Yuvi , it was a mess . Yes we had a decent time in that period from 2000-2009 but that was our greatest team ffs .We could pick our All time XI today ,5-6,even 7 players from that era would walk into it .We underachieved awfully both home and away.We even failed to beat England and Pakistan at home during that period .Only credible away series win was that one in England and later New Zealand . For the team we had we horribly underachieved .The amount of time our great batsmen failed when crucial time in the series was ridiculous for the ability they had.We had absolutely no business losing that MCG test for example.Neither should have lost the series to Pakistan in 2006. No point glossing over and hyping up a mediocre record by a great team which should have achieved far more. putrevus and sarchasm 1 1 Link to comment
Gambit Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 13 hours ago, putrevus said: You have remove both Bangladesh and Zimbabwe both were minnows and those wins mask the deficiencies of this team.The link you gave is high point of their performances.They have winning record only against one team which is England where they won two tests. Mind you they faced Australia without Warne and Mcgrath during this period who knows what would their record would have been if both were present. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/team/6.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=2;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=default;spanmax1=31+Dec+2010;spanmin1=01+Jan+2001;spanval1=span;template=results;type=team It took them four years from 1996 to get to that point.Reality is they lost more tests in two series than they ever won in their whole careers. If you compare high water mark of other teams ,you can easily see Indian teams with Fab four are the poorest travellers of all greatest teams of every country in terms of performance.As a fan you can understand rebuilding and losing if it leads to greatness but during fab four era it never led to any greatness. Yes they lacked bowlers to win them matches but they never helped their bowlers either. That is unnecessarily harsh and inaccurate. Were you expecting a notoriously poor away team like India to start winning series overnight? What the team with the big 4 achieved was this - doubled the number of tests won in Australia and drew a series, won first test and overall 2 tests in South Africa and achieved first series drawn for India, won first test and first series in Pakistan, drew a series and won a series in England after 20 years, won a series in NZ after 1960s, won a test in WI after some 25 years and then won a series. If this isn't substantial progress (that too without having a single ATG bowler), then maybe your expectations were to win every series during the decade. Coming to Australia, despite being the greatest team of all time, they lost to India in 2001 DESPITE India being without Srinath and Kumble (India's best bowlers) for almost all of the series. And since we are nitpicking and you are highlighting the absence of great players to downplay results here you go: in 2004 against Australia, the big 4 did not play together in ANY of the 4 tests. So maybe we should just discount that win by Australia. In fact, when Tendulkar did play, Australia won 1 and lost 1, so maybe the series count should be 1-1 according to your reasoning. Jimmy Cliff, Laaloo, sarchasm and 1 other 4 Link to comment
Ankit_sharma03 Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 13 hours ago, MCcricket said: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2139790-cricket-statistics-ms-dhonis-test-record-as-india-captain-away-from-home India's Test Record Away From Home Under Notable Captains Captain M W D L Win % Sourav Ganguly 28 11 7 10 39% Rahul Dravid 17 5 8 4 29% MS Dhoni 25 6 8 11 24% Nawab of Pataudi 13 3 0 10 23% Bishan Bedi 14 3 3 8 21% Kapil Dev 14 2 9 3 14% Sunil Gavaskar 18 2 10 6 11% Mohammad Azharuddin 27 1 16 10 4% Sachin Tendulkar 13 0 7 6 0% ESPN Cricinfo As shown in the table above, only Ganguly won 1 test each in Wi,Aus,Eng, SL, Pak rest would be against Bang n Zimb. Link to comment
Ankit_sharma03 Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 12 hours ago, Jimmy Cliff said: Most of our stalwarts declined/retired (Viru, Gambo, RD, SRT, VVS, Zak) at roughly the same time which is a recipe for a disaster. Also Viru, gambo, bhajji, Zaheer shud have been the senior core of the team coz Dravid, VVS, Srt were about to retire and as next generation they shud have taken the responsibilty but their failure Left the team in a mess. Now this team has a good senior core of Kohli, Ashwin, Shami, Vijay, rahane and somewhat ishant n pujara to. Link to comment
Cricketics Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 I like saying that we were crap overseas to point out to my elders that they lived in the era when India really sucked over seas. The years you covered in the stats in OP, are part of my era and probabaly for most people here. So basically I believe we grew up in that time when Indian team mostly has only improved, especially overseas. Yes, we might have seen the odd 1999 0-3 Aus tour etc when we were not even teenagers, and saw some bad NZ tours, but for me we sucked overseas before I was old enough to understand the game Link to comment
putrevus Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 (edited) On 12/31/2016 at 0:12 AM, Gambit said: That is unnecessarily harsh and inaccurate. Were you expecting a notoriously poor away team like India to start winning series overnight? What the team with the big 4 achieved was this - doubled the number of tests won in Australia and drew a series, won first test and overall 2 tests in South Africa and achieved first series drawn for India, won first test and first series in Pakistan, drew a series and won a series in England after 20 years, won a series in NZ after 1960s, won a test in WI after some 25 years and then won a series. If this isn't substantial progress (that too without having a single ATG bowler), then maybe your expectations were to win every series during the decade. Coming to Australia, despite being the greatest team of all time, they lost to India in 2001 DESPITE India being without Srinath and Kumble (India's best bowlers) for almost all of the series. And since we are nitpicking and you are highlighting the absence of great players to downplay results here you go: in 2004 against Australia, the big 4 did not play together in ANY of the 4 tests. So maybe we should just discount that win by Australia. In fact, when Tendulkar did play, Australia won 1 and lost 1, so maybe the series count should be 1-1 according to your reasoning. Is Kumble an ATG bowler and when fans of one of the Fab4 make him to be an all time best batsman you expect better results. The number of collapses and losses which Fab4 had even when their bowlers delivered is the problem.When your batting line up stacks up stats wise with best in world you expect more from them. Even Srilanka with just Rangana Herath won a test in SA with lot less resources and fab4 won just one extra test with so much greater resources and chances. No one expected them to win 16 tests on trot or win multiple world cups. But to expect win multiple tests across in some nations is not too much to ask. Heck they even failed to reach semis in 2 of three world cups and were bounced out by lowly Bangladesh. It took an all time great innings for Aussies to lose in 2001.When was India such a force to reckon when they traveled.If you think lack of bowling was the only reason for India not winning more tests overseas then we must have seen totally different matches. I as a fan totally understand lack of success from 1960s to 1990s when they had very meager resources but that was not case during fab4 era .Going forward if Indian team under Kohli or anyone else does not win series overseas then it will be total failure, as a fan I would be totally disappointed. Edited January 1, 2017 by putrevus Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now