Umesh or Ishant as 3rd Seamer in South Africa

[wanted_desi]

Bhuvi and Shami are going to be first choice bowlers in South Africa. Team management is going to take call on who would they prefer, Ishant or Umesh as third seamer.  I do know that Ishant has been bowling exceptionally well recently. He has always been great against Ranji Quality batsmen, currently SriLanka team is at par with average Ranji Trophy team. I really wouldn't buy much into it.  I always find Australia conditions are bit similar to South Africa. Players from each side never struggle in each others conditions. Umesh has done really well on pitches that offer little bit bounce: Perth/Brisbane/Melbourne and failed in Sydney and Adelaide. He deserves a go in South Africa ahead of mighty Ishant, who again will struggle to get wickets against a top side. 

 

Umesh Record in Australia:

2011 Tour:

7 Wickets in Melbourne 

5 Wicket in One Inning at Perth

Failed in Sydney and Adelaide 

 

2015 Tour:

5 Wickets in Brisbane

5 Wickets in Melbourne

Failed in SYdney

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ishant Record in Australia:

2008 Tour:

3 Wicket at Perth

Failed in Sydney 

3 Wickets in Adelaide 

 

2011 Tour:

2 Wickets in Melbourne 

1 Wicket in Perth

Failed in Sydney and Adelaide

 

2015 Tour:

6 Wickets in Brisbane

2 Wickets in Melbourne

Failed in Adelaide 

 

2014 TOur of South Africa 

5 Wickets in Johensburgg

0 Wickets in Durban

[sarcastic]

Ishant will start out as the 3rd seamer and if he continues to perform like he is doing at the moment, he will make it his place for sure!!!

[wanted_desi]

2 minutes ago, sarcastic said:

Ishant will start out as the 3rd seamer and if he continues to perform like he is doing at the moment, he will make it his place for sure!!!

His average against Australia this year was 60. He was unable to buy a wicket. Performance against a minnow like team SriLanka shouldn't confirm his selection against a tough team like South Africa. 

[maniac]

Hands down Ishant....sad for Umesh though but Bhuvi absolutely tore through the competition to get ahead and Shami is still our best bowler.

 

 Shaami is still very brittle but an injury to him we should get Bumrah in....time for Umesh to move down the pecking order but still good enough to be in the scheme of things.

[sarcastic]

2 minutes ago, wanted_desi said:

His average against Australia this year was 60. He was unable to buy a wicket. Performance against a minnow like team SriLanka shouldn't confirm his selection against a tough team like South Africa. 

But most are convinced that Umesh has regressed terribly after his highs of Australia. Ishant has also shown remarkable improvement in his bowling. It is not only the opposition but he actually became much better with his line and length and seam position. 

 

I am sure the management will pick Ishant over Umesh for the first test. But if he fails, he will be replaced by Umesh!!!. 

[Gollum]

Ishant for the 1st test. He offers better control but at the same time can also have moments where he can get 3-4 quick wickets. Besides his height and bounce will add variety into the attack. BK-Shami-Ishant-Pandya-Jadeja is the way to go in test 1. 

[adi B]

Sad to see umesh struggling but surely bhuvi,shami,ishant should be the top 3 choices for the first test. If ishant fails he should be replaced with umesh

[maniac]

1 minute ago, adi B said:

Sad to see umesh struggling but surely bhuvi,shami,ishant should be the top 3 choices for the first test. If ishant fails he should be replaced with umesh

I would say Bumrah has earned his shot first. This is the problem we keep going back to the guy we dropped whenever the guy who replaced him fails...Sure Umesh is not totally out of the loop...and is a good  enough backup

[Ankit_sharma03]

As of now Ishant , he looks in good rhythm

[Cricketics]

Honestly don’t care. Both should be behind Bumrah. I would start with Bumrah.

[maniac]

3 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

Honestly don’t care. Both should be behind Bumrah. I would start with Bumrah.

Ishant has been taking wickets that’s what matters...I might get killed by beetle and newguy for saying this but In the mid innings when conditions have evened out Umesh at times looks more threatening and bowls a few jaffas over Bhuvi but at the end of the Bhuvi has cashed in every opportunity and is taking “wickets” that’s what matters.

 

I think Bumrah is next in the pecking order for now after Shami,Bhuvi and Ishu but the top 3 have not done anything wrong to be dropped.

[sandeep]

58 minutes ago, wanted_desi said:

His average against Australia this year was 60. He was unable to buy a wicket. Performance against a minnow like team SriLanka shouldn't confirm his selection against a tough team like South Africa. 

Its not just about statistics.  Ishant bowled really well at Banglore against Australia, and played an important role in India winning that crucial test after the loss at Pune.   

 

We have all seen Ishant's poor performances plenty of times in the past, but to resort to cliches, he's really bowling "good areas" right now, and has always been a reliable workhorse.  If he can keep bowling with his improved seam position, he'll be a handful in SA, given the available bounce, and his height and type of bowling.  

 

Umesh can do well in SA also, and shouldn't be ruled out on the basis of a couple of tests against SL in Indian conditions - but on form and rhythm, I'd say Ishant edges Umesh for T1 right now.  

 

[sandeep]

10 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

Honestly don’t care. Both should be behind Bumrah. I would start with Bumrah.

I have a feeling that Bumrah will get his chance by T2 with Shami pulling up with another "niggle".  

[express bowling]

My choice for SA tests as of today

 

1. Shami

 

2.  and   3.      Any two among Bumrah, Bhuvi and Ishant based on pitch and conditions

 

 

Edited December 5, 2017 by express bowling

[Temujin Khaghan]

a moment's silence for all the catches dropped off Umesh's bowling by our glorious slip cordon. 

sometimes a bowler needs just a single opening to give him the confidence boost to end the day with a 5fer. 

so the loss caused to Umesh in mere numbers of catches dropped is not accurately quantifiable. the damage done to him is immense. 

but the morons who dropped catches will sleep well knowing that their places in the team are safe as long as they keep scoring runs.

[goose]

One of the reasons sides keep losing away is a failure to aggressively pursue a horses for course policy for away conditions. Forget the form book and forget reputations built on home. When you see the sights of Morkel, Cummins, and Broad roughing up our batsmen, the line and length (at best) floaters sent down by Ishant will look woefully inadequate. He looks ok now in games where spin is taking a decent amount of wickets and he compares favourably with opposition seamers. This is a LONG away season. The XI that plays must not only be the best right now but also have the capacity to grow with each test. I'd have Umesh alongside Shami as my two front line bowlers. Yadav is the best looking Indian fast bowler i have seen (i don't mean handsome clearly he is not that). Clearly i have missed a lot of cricket. Why the love for Bhuvi now, doesn't he need swinging conditions to be effective? Look at the Ashes, the English are rueing the absence of a rookie like Wood and realising how ineffective Broad, Woakes, and Anderson are in Oz (nothwithsanding the lateral movement due to the evening day/night session).

Edited December 5, 2017 by goose

[Shunya]

Ishant. He is the workhorse since years. He is in good form as well. 

[goose]

Last time i checked you need 20 wickets to win a test not 1 workhorse.

[Shunya]

15 minutes ago, goose said:

Last time i checked you need 20 wickets to win a test not 1 workhorse.

He is bowling well currently. Don't see much difference between the two. Ishant brings more consistency which will be helpful as 3rd pacer in the lineup. And if he has a burst like lords win, better for us.

[sandeep]

18 minutes ago, goose said:

Last time i checked you need 20 wickets to win a test not 1 workhorse.

A bowling unit is only as strong as its weakest link.   Ishant would be a weak link as a front-line pacer, not as the 3rd seamer.  An inconsistent Umesh in one of his bad days or months, can potentially cost us the series.   And its not as if Ishant floats up friendly medium-pace - there's not much difference between his and Umesh's pace at this point.  Umesh used to be quicker than him back in the day, but has dialed down his top pace in his quest for consistency and accuracy - which did seem to be the case in the home series against NZ and Aus.  

 

Our chronic problem in taking 20 wickets away from home - i.e. without spinners doing the bulk of the damage - is the lack of that 3rd and 4th bowling option to maintain pressure.  How many times over the last 20 years have we seen our team claw their way into positions of temporary advantage, only to let it slip away to a key lower order or middle order partnership?  Its all because of strike bowlers running out of gas, and the lack of quality in the #3 and 4 bowlers to get the job done.  Umesh, in his current form, carries the risk of doing just that.  Ishant doesn't.   Look at his statistics away from home, in the last 2 years or so.   You will be surprised.

 

Edited December 5, 2017 by sandeep