Duncan Fletcher, the unsung hero

[WC2011INDIA]

https://www.news18.com/cricketnext/news/india-vs-england-fletcher-should-be-credited-for-shaping-current-indian-pace-attack-nick-compton-1857283.html

 

 

[GolGappe]

What a crock of English shite.

 

Worst coach in India's cricket history.

 

How the heck Dhoni and Fletcher were allowed to  carry on after all those  poor overseas results is beyond me.

 

Shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as Wright and Kirsten.

[rkt.india]

4 minutes ago, GolGappe said:

What a crock of English shite.

 

Worst coach in India's cricket history.

 

How the heck Dhoni and Fletcher were allowed to  carry on after all those  poor overseas results is beyond me.

 

Shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as Wright and Kirsten.

Kirsten was just their at the right time.  When it was time to build a team, he left.

Edited August 28, 2018 by rkt.india

[SK_IH]

18 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Kirsten was just their at the right time.  When it was time to build a team, he left.

trust one of biggest opportunist, the hard work after the world cup exit was done by seniors in conjunction with Chandu Borde and Lalchand Rajput. Thereafter highly motivated Dhoni took over.What did Kirsten brought to the table apart from throwdowns and pre match sex theories iirc

[Unleashed]

Nick Compton should * off. All the credit goes to Kohli and Kohli only. These bowlers would've looked half their usual self if Dhoni was the captain.

 

Also never forget that it was Duncan Fletcher which decided to play Vinay Kumar at WACA.

[Trichromatic]

30 minutes ago, Unleashed said:

Nick Compton should * off. All the credit goes to Kohli and Kohli only. These bowlers would've looked half their usual self if Dhoni was the captain.

 

Also never forget that it was Duncan Fletcher which decided to play Vinay Kumar at WACA.

These are due to systematic changes at grassroot levels of Indian cricket, not because of Kohli.

[speedheat]

45 minutes ago, Unleashed said:

Nick Compton should * off. All the credit goes to Kohli and Kohli only. These bowlers would've looked half their usual self if Dhoni was the captain.

 

Also never forget that it was Duncan Fletcher which decided to play Vinay Kumar at WACA.

Agree, kohli should get the credit, he had massive role in this, all our pacers are bowling fastish to fast to fast medium under his captaincy and we all know what happened under pathetic dhoni.

Edited August 28, 2018 by speedheat

[Unleashed]

1 hour ago, Trichromatic said:

These are due to systematic changes at grassroot levels of Indian cricket, not because of Kohli.

Grassroots changes have got * all to do with Ishant, Shami, Bhuvi. Infact let's see the stats. Dhoni retired from captaincy on 30th Dec 2014(http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/story/814975.html), so I'm posting the stats from 1st Jan 2015 and before that.

Ishant

filtered

2007-2014

61

526

31*

9.06

0

187

7/74

37.30

6

13

0

-28.23

filtered

2015-2018

24

73

11

4.86

0

62

5/51

28.70

2

4

0

-23.84

Ishant bowling average pre-kohli is 37. With Kohli it's 28.

 

Bhuvi

filtered

2013-2014

11

343

63*

24.50

0

28

6/82

30.25

2

4

0

-5.74

filtered

2015-2018

10

209

33

19.00

0

35

5/33

22.77

2

4

0

-3.77

 

Bhuvi bowling average pre kohli is 30. With Kohli its 22.

 

Shami

filtered

11

150

51*

11.53

0

41

5/47

37.90

1

1

0

-26.36

filtered

2015-2018

22

266

30

14.00

0

77

5/28

25.42

2

6

0

-11.42

 

Shami bowling average pre kohli is 38. With Kohli it's 25.

 

 

[Khota]

BS article. Duncan was better than Shastri but that is not saying much. even I am better than Shastri.

[raki05]

From Duncan Fletcher to Drunken Shastri travesty of Indian cricket..

[MechEng]

Believe it or not, IPL has played a big role in Indian pace revolution. It's not that T20 cricket helped us, the peer group you get in IPL plays a big role in learning good habits, Ishant Sharma has been a different bowler ever since he has played alongside Dale Steyn.

Indian bowlers don't have that natural god gifted flair to bowl fast like West Indies of 80s or Pakistan of 90s, but the global nutrition experts and coaches did train our bowlers fitness wise to bowl fast.

[eternalhope]

It is more due to the fast bowling culture which has developed in the last 20 years. Days are not far where we will move to the next level and produce express bowlers regularly. With those sheer number of people, it is bound to happen once the culture is there. 

 

Off course everyone would like to claim credit, but if I have to point to one thing - it is the penetration of TV to all the remote corners of the country - of which the IPL also is the offshoot.

[gattaca]

6 hours ago, raki05 said:

From Duncan Fletcher to Drunken Shastri travesty of Indian cricket..

With Duncan we got blanked in England and Australia. Have to say we did better and competitive this time in England.

[gattaca]

1 hour ago, eternalhope said:

It is more due to the fast bowling culture which has developed in the last 20 years. Days are not far where we will move to the next level and produce express bowlers regularly. With those sheer number of people, it is bound to happen once the culture is there. 

 

Off course everyone would like to claim credit, but if I have to point to one thing - it is the penetration of TV to all the remote corners of the country - of which the IPL also is the offshoot.

I don’t think we need express bowlers they don’t have long careers. We want people to bowl with high speeds of 145-147. That should be enough. 

[Vilander]

16 hours ago, Unleashed said:

Grassroots changes have got * all to do with Ishant, Shami, Bhuvi. Infact let's see the stats. Dhoni retired from captaincy on 30th Dec 2014(http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/story/814975.html), so I'm posting the stats from 1st Jan 2015 and before that.

Ishant

filtered

2007-2014

61

526

31*

9.06

0

187

7/74

37.30

6

13

0

-28.23

filtered

2015-2018

24

73

11

4.86

0

62

5/51

28.70

2

4

0

-23.84

Ishant bowling average pre-kohli is 37. With Kohli it's 28.

 

Bhuvi

filtered

2013-2014

11

343

63*

24.50

0

28

6/82

30.25

2

4

0

-5.74

filtered

2015-2018

10

209

33

19.00

0

35

5/33

22.77

2

4

0

-3.77

 

Bhuvi bowling average pre kohli is 30. With Kohli its 22.

 

Shami

filtered

11

150

51*

11.53

0

41

5/47

37.90

1

1

0

-26.36

filtered

2015-2018

22

266

30

14.00

0

77

5/28

25.42

2

6

0

-11.42

 

Shami bowling average pre kohli is 38. With Kohli it's 25.

 

 

eye opening.

 

[Trichromatic]

16 hours ago, Unleashed said:

Grassroots changes have got * all to do with Ishant, Shami, Bhuvi. Infact let's see the stats. Dhoni retired from captaincy on 30th Dec 2014(http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/story/814975.html), so I'm posting the stats from 1st Jan 2015 and before that.

Ishant

filtered

2007-2014

61

526

31*

9.06

0

187

7/74

37.30

6

13

0

-28.23

filtered

2015-2018

24

73

11

4.86

0

62

5/51

28.70

2

4

0

-23.84

Ishant bowling average pre-kohli is 37. With Kohli it's 28.

 

Bhuvi

filtered

2013-2014

11

343

63*

24.50

0

28

6/82

30.25

2

4

0

-5.74

filtered

2015-2018

10

209

33

19.00

0

35

5/33

22.77

2

4

0

-3.77

 

Bhuvi bowling average pre kohli is 30. With Kohli its 22.

 

Shami

filtered

11

150

51*

11.53

0

41

5/47

37.90

1

1

0

-26.36

filtered

2015-2018

22

266

30

14.00

0

77

5/28

25.42

2

6

0

-11.42

 

Shami bowling average pre kohli is 38. With Kohli it's 25.

 

 

1. Ishant's average has been consistently dropping since Aug 2011.

 

year 2014		8	14	346.0	60	1192	38	7/74	9/162	31.36	3.44	54.6	3	0
year 2015		7	12	159.0	42	441	14	5/54	8/86	31.50	2.77	68.1	1	0
year 2016		5	9	115.0	26	316	11	2/30	3/59	28.72	2.74	62.7	0	0
year 2017		6	12	179.3	35	528	14	3/37	5/80	37.71	2.94	76.9	0	0
year 2018		6	11	162.0	25	495	23	5/51	6/97	21.52	3.05	42.2	1	0

 

3 five wicket hauls in 2014 and that's where his good bowling performances became consistent. Last year he averaged 38 with ball. Ishant started on this curve much earlier and found his consistency during Dhoni's captaincy only. 

 

2. Umesh Yadav

*MS Dhoni	2011-2014	10	18	305.0	36	1247	40	5/93	7/103	31.17	4.08	45.7	1	0
*V Kohli	2015-2018	25	50	646.0	131	2127	55	4/32	6/71	38.67	3.29	70.4	0	0

 

3. Shami

year 2013		4	8	124.1	15	445	17	5/47	9/118	26.17	3.58	43.8	1	0
year 2014		7	13	287.5	44	1109	24	4/70	6/219	46.20	3.85	71.9	0	0
year 2015		1	2	34.3	3	145	6	5/112	6/145	24.16	4.20	34.5	1	0
year 2016		10	19	271.1	52	779	29	4/66	6/116	26.86	2.87	56.1	0	0
year 2017		5	10	137.5	34	446	19	4/100	6/134	23.47	3.23	43.5	0	0
year 2018		6	11	167.1	29	588	23	5/28	6/74	25.56	3.51	43.6	1	0

 

Did well in start under Dhoni, didn't find conditions to his liking in 2014 and then showcased his talent again later. I see only 2014 as an outlier in his career. Then he struggled in England and still struggling in this series with average of 40. Aus were flat pitches and we haven't played in Aus recently. 

 

4. Bhuvi 

year 2013		6	11	104.0	18	341	9	3/31	3/60	37.88	3.27	69.3	0	0
year 2014		5	7	172.5	45	506	19	6/82	6/103	26.63	2.92	54.5	2	0
year 2015		1	2	42.0	5	168	1	1/46	1/168	168.00	4.00	252.0	0	0
year 2016		4	7	85.4	24	195	13	5/33	6/46	15.00	2.27	39.5	2	0
year 2017		3	6	86.3	27	231	11	4/8	8/96	21.00	2.67	47.1	0	0
year 2018		2	4	67.0	22	203	10	4/87	6/120	20.30	3.02	40.2	0	0

 

His improvement curve started much earlier and anyone who followed his career knows that he was good swing bowler who started gaining pace by himself. 

 

You're giving credit to Kohli for his performance when he dropped Bhuvi after being best bowler in first test in SA? 

 

Statement you're looking for is - Bhuvi has been doing well despite Kohli's captaincy, not because of Kohli's captaincy.

[raki05]

3 hours ago, gattaca said:

With Duncan we got blanked in England and Australia. Have to say we did better and competitive this time in England.

Series is still to get over, last time also we won 1 match.

[Unleashed]

3 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

1. Ishant's average has been consistently dropping since Aug 2011.

 

year 2014		8	14	346.0	60	1192	38	7/74	9/162	31.36	3.44	54.6	3	0
year 2015		7	12	159.0	42	441	14	5/54	8/86	31.50	2.77	68.1	1	0
year 2016		5	9	115.0	26	316	11	2/30	3/59	28.72	2.74	62.7	0	0
year 2017		6	12	179.3	35	528	14	3/37	5/80	37.71	2.94	76.9	0	0
year 2018		6	11	162.0	25	495	23	5/51	6/97	21.52	3.05	42.2	1	0

 

3 five wicket hauls in 2014 and that's where his good bowling performances became consistent. Last year he averaged 38 with ball. Ishant started on this curve much earlier and found his consistency during Dhoni's captaincy only. 

 

2. Umesh Yadav

*MS Dhoni	2011-2014	10	18	305.0	36	1247	40	5/93	7/103	31.17	4.08	45.7	1	0
*V Kohli	2015-2018	25	50	646.0	131	2127	55	4/32	6/71	38.67	3.29	70.4	0	0

 

3. Shami

year 2013		4	8	124.1	15	445	17	5/47	9/118	26.17	3.58	43.8	1	0
year 2014		7	13	287.5	44	1109	24	4/70	6/219	46.20	3.85	71.9	0	0
year 2015		1	2	34.3	3	145	6	5/112	6/145	24.16	4.20	34.5	1	0
year 2016		10	19	271.1	52	779	29	4/66	6/116	26.86	2.87	56.1	0	0
year 2017		5	10	137.5	34	446	19	4/100	6/134	23.47	3.23	43.5	0	0
year 2018		6	11	167.1	29	588	23	5/28	6/74	25.56	3.51	43.6	1	0

 

Did well in start under Dhoni, didn't find conditions to his liking in 2014 and then showcased his talent again later. I see only 2014 as an outlier in his career. Then he struggled in England and still struggling in this series with average of 40. Aus were flat pitches and we haven't played in Aus recently. 

 

4. Bhuvi 

year 2013		6	11	104.0	18	341	9	3/31	3/60	37.88	3.27	69.3	0	0
year 2014		5	7	172.5	45	506	19	6/82	6/103	26.63	2.92	54.5	2	0
year 2015		1	2	42.0	5	168	1	1/46	1/168	168.00	4.00	252.0	0	0
year 2016		4	7	85.4	24	195	13	5/33	6/46	15.00	2.27	39.5	2	0
year 2017		3	6	86.3	27	231	11	4/8	8/96	21.00	2.67	47.1	0	0
year 2018		2	4	67.0	22	203	10	4/87	6/120	20.30	3.02	40.2	0	0

 

His improvement curve started much earlier and anyone who followed his career knows that he was good swing bowler who started gaining pace by himself. 

 

You're giving credit to Kohli for his performance when he dropped Bhuvi after being best bowler in first test in SA? 

 

Statement you're looking for is - Bhuvi has been doing well despite Kohli's captaincy, not because of Kohli's captaincy.

There's been loads of cases in previous years where our bowlers have deteriorated after playing 2 years of international cricket. There've been a lot of memes about Indian pacebowlers starting with a bang and then becoming trundlers, therefore the "improvement curve" point is fairly useless when talking in context of Indian bowlers. 

It's hilarious how you actually said that improvement at grassroots level is the reason behind the improvement of our current fast bowlers? Do you even know what grassroots actually means? Improvement at grassroots levels is the reason behind the emergence of Mavi, Nagarkotti.

[Trichromatic]

3 minutes ago, Unleashed said:

There's been loads of cases in previous years where our bowlers have deteriorated after playing 2 years of international cricket. There've been a lot of memes about Indian pacebowlers starting with a bang and then becoming trundlers, therefore the "improvement curve" point is fairly useless when talking in context of Indian bowlers. 

It's hilarious how you actually said that improvement at grassroots level is the reason behind the improvement of our current fast bowlers? Do you even know what grassroots actually means? Improvement at grassroots levels is the reason behind the emergence of Mavi, Nagarkotti.

And you believe Mavi and Nagarkoti are recent sudden changes.

 

Indian pace bowling has been upgrading continuously for last 15 years.

 

First we moved on from regular trundlers to bunch of decent pacers like Zak, Sreesanth, RP Singh, Pathan who won us tests everywhere unlike their predecessors. But this upgrade had hits and misses. 

 

Next gen sustained pace for more than 2 years and has now started showing bowling accumen.

 

Next generation after this will be better with sustained pace, better bowling knowledge and lower averages.

 

But keep believing these are just sudden miraculous changes in last 3 years because of captain while conveniently hard work of people behind scene for last 15 years.

[express bowling]

Combination of Kohli and Shankar Basu, the fitness trainer for our national team, have a lot to do with the improvement of our fast bowling unit in test matches from mid-2015.  The strength, endurance  and fitness training put in place have worked wonders regarding our pacers sustaining intensity and pace throughout the day. 

 

Bharat Arun has played a part too. The training system including workload management, for our national team fast bowlers now is very scientific.

 

Facilities and coaches at the NCA have also had a role to play regarding training and rehabilitation of pacers during non-match times.

 

Regarding the issue of lots of good quality young quick bowlers coming up in India nowadays, the biggest factors are  ----    the Emergence of fast bowling culture in India including fitness and gym culture ... top quality training methods, coaches  and infrastructure in India now including the NCA ... our exchange program with Australia ... our economic strength as a country in the last few years which is making the youngsters confident and providing infrastructure too.