What would Ashwin's legacy be as a great Indian test match spinner ?

[rangeelaraja]

Can Ashwin play test cricket until 40 like Rangana Herath ?

 

Unlike Lanka, India have plenty of options. So Ashwin's form and fitness would play a huge part in his selection, which by no means is a guarantee.

 

It is likely Ashwin will continue to dominate big time in home series while he may not be in the playing  XI on many overseas test tours. 

 

Have followed Bhajj's career closely - what he did in 2001 vs. Aus at home was stuff of legends and after that too he won us unmpteen home series.

 

Needless to say that Ashwin has been next in line with better numbers than Bhajji ( and even Kumble) and will certainly end up with alot more test wickets than Bhajji.

 

Given that Ashwin is 34, it is unlikely that he will come close to Jumbo's record, but he may still cross 500 test wickets and end up as the greatest Indian test match spinner after jumbo.

 

 

 

[Gollum]

For most of us he is already an Indian great, will make AT Indian squad of 16. Forget what padosis, nostalgiatards and inferiority complex ridden Indians say. 

 

His numbers in SENA post-2014 too have been good, sometimes need to go beyond raw stats. Swann was excellent in 2010-11 Ashes but Ashwin was even better this time, one of the most impressive bowling performances by a visiting spinner in Aus. Had he been fit for 4th test who knows he may have pipped Cummins for MOTS award, that's how impressive he was this tour. Few more wins missed like Edgbaston and Centurion where it should have been a match-winning 12fer....opportunities will come I am sure, this test series win must have given us the confidence to close out matches in SENA. 

 

I am sure he will continue to torment teams in SC, WI till late 30s  if he can stay fit so long. If he repeats his Aus performance in Eng, RSA this year he is an ATG in my book, plain and simple. Hope we always play both him and Jaddu unless we are given green mambas, that should have always been our overseas strategy since Ash/Jaddu strengthen the lower order and both offer much more than our 4th quick....and as a combo they are deadly, both benefit and complement each other beautifully when bowling in tandem. Pity that MCG 2020 was only the 3rd instance of both playing in the same XI outside Asia (previous 2 instances were a match each in 2014 Eng and 2016 WI).

 

Going forward fitness will be the main problem for him, 2016-17 hernia episode has taken a lot out of him, needs some luck to get through these next few years. Hope he gives up his national white ball dream, already achieved enough in those formats, 2 good WCs including a win, CT 2013, dominated WT20, IPL, CL etc. Play IPL and just ensure availability for selection in all tests....in fact that is what I want Jaddu to do as well, maybe after a couple of years in his case (2 years younger, much fitter, batting form), their legacy entirely depends upon red ball cricket. 

 

Ash's batting has declined but as he showed in Sydney, ability is still there. His blockathon there was more important than many 100s, hope he draws inspiration from that effort and does justice to his talent. 

Edited February 2, 2021 by Gollum

[Gollum]

Hope by the end of their careers both Jaddu and Ash cement their spots in AT Indian XI. A lower middle order of Pant, Kapil, Jaddu, Ash will be killer. 

[putrevus]

Ashwin is second best spinner from India after Kumble. He is already better than everyone else including 1970s spinners. He will end up better than Kumble as he has more variety than Kumble .He needs to stay fit.

[Gollum]

2 things that will always define him:

 

1. Proving that it is possible for offies to succeed without resorting to the dark art of chucking. I will always credit him, Swann and Lyon for keeping cricket clean, doosra via javelin throw has no business in our beautiful sport. Now for the first time in cricket history we have clampdown on chuckers (Asia Cup 2014's importance to our sport!!!), otherwise imagine Ajmal continuing like he did in that 2012 UAE (vs Eng) series, shocked even pro-Pak Sky commentators/experts back then. Just like they say Qadir revived the dying art of leg spin in the 80s, I am sure these 3 have prevented the death of clean (non-chucking) off-spin. Among these 3, special praise to Ashwin since off-spin is traditionally regarded as a defensive option (opposite of wrist spin), but he has been an attacking bowler in tests for most of his career, searching for wickets rather than waiting for errors via attrition.

 

 

2. Record against LHBs. Will be interesting to see where he finishes. But already the GOAT against LHBs, and by a huge margin. if he ends up with over 250 wickets against LHBs by the end of his career, I am sure this record will stand forever. I think in terms of difficulty to break records this will rank at the very top....like Don's average or Murali's 800 tally. 

 

Ashwin 193 (74 tests)

Murali 191 (133 tests)

Anderson 186 (156 tests)

McGrath 172 (124 tests)

Warne 172 (145 tests)

Kumble 167 (132 tests)

 

Most dismissed batsmen:

 

Warner 10 times

Cook 9 times

Stokes, Cowan 7 times

Elgar, Bravo, Karunaratne, Wade, Thirimanne, Shaun Marsh and a few more guys 6 times each, then the likes of Latham, Moeen 5x

2 legends Chanderpaul and Sangakkara dismissed 4/4 times...100% success rate 

 

Edited February 2, 2021 by Gollum

[Ankit_sharma03]

ATG without any doubt , one of india's greatest test match winner

[Majestic]

Alongside Kumble, he is India's best test spinner.

 

The best spinner of this generation and a good no.8 batsman. He is Richie Benaud of this era.

 

Kapil

Bumrah

Zak

Kumble

Ashwin

 

I propose this attack for overseas tests in my all-time XI team for India. Sir Jadeja will also be in my 16-man squad.

 

Edited February 3, 2021 by Majestic

[Majestic]

17- man squad as India all time XI:-

 

1.Gavaskar

2.Sehwag

Gambhir( left hander)

 

3.Dravid

4.Tendulkar

5.Kohli

Pujara

VVS

 

6.Dhoni

Pant

 

Jadeja

8.Ashwin

9.Kumble

 

7.Kapil

10. Zak

11.Bumrah

Shami

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

https://www.icc-cricket.com/rankings/mens/player-rankings/test/all-time-bowling

 

Only India to figure in the all time top 20 rankings much like how Virat Kohli is the only one to figure in the top 20 all time great ranking.

[rkt.india]

8 hours ago, Gollum said:

2 things that will always define him:

 

1. Proving that it is possible for offies to succeed without resorting to the dark art of chucking. I will always credit him, Swann and Lyon for keeping cricket clean, doosra via javelin throw has no business in our beautiful sport. Now for the first time in cricket history we have clampdown on chuckers (Asia Cup 2014's importance to our sport!!!), otherwise imagine Ajmal continuing like he did in that 2012 UAE (vs Eng) series, shocked even pro-Pak Sky commentators/experts back then. Just like they say Qadir revived the dying art of leg spin in the 80s, I am sure these 3 have prevented the death of clean (non-chucking) off-spin. Among these 3, special praise to Ashwin since off-spin is traditionally regarded as a defensive option (opposite of wrist spin), but he has been an attacking bowler in tests for most of his career, searching for wickets rather than waiting for errors via attrition.

 

 

2. Record against LHBs. Will be interesting to see where he finishes. But already the GOAT against LHBs, and by a huge margin. if he ends up with over 250 wickets against LHBs by the end of his career, I am sure this record will stand forever. I think in terms of difficulty to break records this will rank at the very top....like Don's average or Murali's 800 tally. 

 

Ashwin 193 (74 tests)

Murali 191 (133 tests)

Anderson 186 (156 tests)

McGrath 172 (124 tests)

Warne 172 (145 tests)

Kumble 167 (132 tests)

 

Most dismissed batsmen:

 

Warner 10 times

Cook 9 times

Stokes, Cowan 7 times

Elgar, Bravo, Karunaratne, Wade, Thirimanne, Shaun Marsh and a few more guys 6 times each, then the likes of Latham, Moeen 5x

2 legends Chanderpaul and Sangakkara dismissed 4/4 times...100% success rate 

 

You have to judge his record against RHBs, not LHBs to judge his bowling. Off spinners are natural matchups against LHBs.

[Majestic]

1 hour ago, vvvslaxman said:

https://www.icc-cricket.com/rankings/mens/player-rankings/test/all-time-bowling

 

Only India to figure in the all time top 20 rankings much like how Virat Kohli is the only one to figure in the top 20 all time great ranking.

That's more of a peak ranking rathar than all-time.

[gakgupta]

9 hours ago, rangeelaraja said:

Can Ashwin play test cricket until 40 like Rangana Herath ?

 

Unlike Lanka, India have plenty of options. So Ashwin's form and fitness would play a huge part in his selection, which by no means is a guarantee.

 

It is likely Ashwin will continue to dominate big time in home series while he may not be in the playing  XI on many overseas test tours. 

 

Have followed Bhajj's career closely - what he did in 2001 vs. Aus at home was stuff of legends and after that too he won us unmpteen home series.

 

Needless to say that Ashwin has been next in line with better numbers than Bhajji ( and even Kumble) and will certainly end up with alot more test wickets than Bhajji.

 

Given that Ashwin is 34, it is unlikely that he will come close to Jumbo's record, but he may still cross 500 test wickets and end up as the greatest Indian test match spinner after jumbo.

 

 

 

Pls dont forget his batting exploits  

 

He is definitely in the top 5 test allrounder of India

[Gollum]

8 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

You have to judge his record against RHBs, not LHBs to judge his bowling. Off spinners are natural matchups against LHBs.

Then why don't other offies have similar record, close to 3 LHB wickets per test?

[Serpico]

He had a very good tour to Australia. If he can have similar tours to England and South Africa later this year, he can be considered as our best match winner. This is very important year to him, hope he improves his fitness

[Majestic]

How does he compare with Kumble?

 

Kumble had a great series in Australia 2003 too and he was pivotal in drawing that series vs ATG Australian batting lineup and he had no pacers to assist. 

 

Aside of that, Kumble was great in 2003 England, 1992 SA and in West Indies too.

[Sandeep99]

2nd greatest after Kumble already, May end up as the greatest ever if he has a good series in England and South Africa later this year.

[SrinjayDutta]

6 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

https://www.icc-cricket.com/rankings/mens/player-rankings/test/all-time-bowling

 

Only India to figure in the all time top 20 rankings much like how Virat Kohli is the only one to figure in the top 20 all time great ranking.

that is simply peak performance rating right? Not a very good measure overall. definitely in batting there would be at least 2-3 in the top 20 from india.

[Adamant]

Greatest ever Indian Spinner. 

 

1.Ashwin

2.Kumble

3.Bedi

[putrevus]

11 hours ago, Majestic said:

How does he compare with Kumble?

 

Kumble had a great series in Australia 2003 too and he was pivotal in drawing that series vs ATG Australian batting lineup and he had no pacers to assist. 

 

Aside of that, Kumble was great in 2003 England, 1992 SA and in West Indies too.

How was Kumble great in England. The biggest knock on Kumble is he faced England team when it was at it weakest but was unable to do much.Kumble to large extent was HTB who was ineffective even in SL.Ashwin if does well in England and SA will be far better bowler than Kumble.

[Majestic]

12 minutes ago, putrevus said:

How was Kumble great in England. The biggest knock on Kumble is he faced England team when it was at it weakest but was unable to do much.Kumble to large extent was HTB who was ineffective even in SL.Ashwin if does well in England and SA will be far better bowler than Kumble.

Read again what I said. 2003 England. That was good team.

 

And Sl was basically strongest during his era and he bowled to them on pattas. I will put both in same league.