Indian cricketers who have benefitted from this debacle.

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, Adi_91 said:

 

Not bowling in the Syed Mushtaq Ali Trophy and in the IPL may hit Khaleel's chances a bit. Ruturaj and Iyer are likely coming in this NZ series.

 

With such resources available in Indian cricket, all we need is a calm captain who backs his players. I believe this has been the reason we have become a choker off late.

 

 

Build a resourceful team like you can bat anyone anywhere. Bowl anyone any time. Gauti built a KKR team like that. This year CSK had a team like that. Even associate sides have tailender hitters. Our side is predictable.

[Suhaan]

11 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Eng's big hitters are all very consistent too. 

 

We don't have such talent. Guys like Dube/Parag etc come off very rarely

Dube and Parag aren't fit enough to make 10-12 xi of a random club

[zen]

9 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Eng's big hitters are all very consistent too. 

 

We don't have such talent. Guys like Dube/Parag etc come off very rarely

They were not consistent when they started out. Gradually, Eng created that system. 

 

And I as I said, consistency comes from the group where in a random order 2-3 make the impact (not individuals which stems from Ind’s stats padding culture).
 

In Ind, when Sehwag started, he was seen as an irresponsible player (many were asking for Jaffar, Chopra, etc.). When Dhoni started, many wanted Karthik, and so on. 
 

Now the same guys are writing against today’s high strike rate players.

[Lord]

7 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

 

Build a resourceful team like you can bat anyone anywhere. Bowl anyone any time. Gauti built a KKR team like that. This year CSK had a team like that. Even associate sides have tailender hitters. Our side is predictable.

 

that is lack of talent problem

 

Gauti and MS can go to foreigners to fill spots.

[ShoonyaSifar]

11 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

that was the period we got Dhoni,Irfan. Also that wasn't a result of WC loss as it came in 2007

Dhoni and Irfan came in before that period. Irfan in 2003-04 and Dhoni in 2004-05. 2005. In the 2005-06 period we tried Uthappa, Raina, Venu Gopal Rao, JP Yadav, Sreesanth, Munaf, RP Singh, Gambhir got a proper run.

 

[The Realist]

If talentless hacks like Dube and mental fragilities like Samson are the answer then Ind cricket is in even a more darker place than imagined. Not exactly young either.

 

Its pathetic indictment on Kohli that he has left no real young or emerging talent to transition towards because he always favoured oldies over youth.

 

And that is now gonna make building for the future that much harder.

 

Kohli has not only won nothing but left nothing to build on.

 

 

[addicted4444]

8 hours ago, AKane said:

Agreed to all but the fast bowlers.

 

I will believe it when I see it regularly happen. The odds of the trundlers being persisted with are high. Even in tests if Bumrah, Shami and Ishant are fit - no matter who is coach and captain, you will see those three line up. Or else at most Bhuvaneshwar.

 

I would love to be wrong and have Siraj, Tyagi, Prasidh and Umran line up. It is not going to happen. Chahar, Sakaria and co are more likely with one of Siraj, Tyagi or Prasidh thrown in as a bone to the fans.

Bumrah bowler excellently. Not only is he a no brainer inclusion, he would be a no brainer inclusion in any team in this World Cup. 
 

Its difficult for any bowler to take wickets when they have no runs to defend and the remaining 4 bowlers scare nobody. 

Edited November 8, 2021 by addicted4444

[addicted4444]

7 hours ago, zen said:

They were not consistent when they started out. Gradually, Eng created that system. 

 

And I as I said, consistency comes from the group where in a random order 2-3 make the impact (not individuals which stems from Ind’s stats padding culture).
 

In Ind, when Sehwag started, he was seen as an irresponsible player (many were asking for Jaffar, Chopra, etc.). When Dhoni started, many wanted Karthik, and so on. 
 

Now the same guys are writing against today’s high strike rate players.

Well said. The English team appears consistent because they have a lot of effective players. So even if one fails, no one remembers because someone else backs them up. 
 

Furthermore, the fact that the openers know, for example, that even if they fail there is enough batting afterwards for it to not matter allows them to play freely and without pressure and increases their odds of success. 
 

The Indian openers have no such luxury. 
 

To be honest, I have criticized Rohit’s inclusion in the past, but a player like Rohit can be a massive asset to a team. Unfortunately our team does not think strategically. Rohit’s great flaw is that he takes a few deliveries to get going. England would

have taken Rohit and paired him with someone who was a massive hitter on the other end, so Rohit could settle in by simply taking singles and giving the other batter strike for the first few overs and letting them do damage. 
 

And if/when that batter got out, he would have been settled enough to go after the ball himself. 
 

Instead, the Indian brain(less) trust pairs Rohit with KL Rahul who is also a very similar style player and needs a few deliveries to get going. You can have either Rohit or Rahul open in a T20.  You cannot have them both open. 

[NameGoesHere]

I was considering opening a thread but this is as good a place as any.

 

It is my contention that at the 20:20 international level our players seem to have lost their hunger.  Their primary focus - financial and sporting accomplishment wise - has become the IPL.  Not just that,  at some level INDIVIDUAL success or failure in that tournament (directly connected to financial and other rewards) is now equal to if not more than team accomplishment.  We are therefore seeing a collection of satisfied ‘superstars’ thrown together rather than a team of talented cricketers hungry to do well.   The flip side of that is that there will be comparatively few repercussions for failing -  there’s always the next IPL season where I’m sure we’ll be bigging up these guys again. 
 

One of the big learning for me in that fantastic last away tour of Australia was not just our Test bench was strong, but we had reserve players who were really desperate to do well.  I did not see that desire in this T20 Wc team.  I know it’s easy to take potshots at the IPL but this has started to worry me.  

 

 

 

 

Edited November 8, 2021 by NameGoesHere

[AKane]

2 hours ago, NameGoesHere said:

One of the big learning for me in that fantastic last away tour of Australia was not just our Test bench was strong, but we had reserve players who were really desperate to do well.  I did not see that desire in this T20 Wc team.  I know it’s easy to take potshots at the IPL but this has started to worry me.  

 

 

 

 

 

Absolutely - We won the Gabba test with Siraj, Shardul and Natarajan bowling ( Saini unfortunately got hurt ). Impossible to prove but I don't think we win that match with Bumrah, Shami and Ishant bowling even disregarding Shardul's partnership with Sundar.

 

IPL has produced the talent we see today for better or worse. Without IPL we would not be seeing the availability of pace bowlers. We would still be  with Kumaran, Mohanty, Praveen Kumar types.

[AKane]

Also one of the reasons Pak bowling got so much better with Imran was Packer's WSC.

 

Imran was in the World XI with Garth Le Roux  of SA in that Packer cricket in 1970's. He learned a lot over there. Nobody from India played WSC so we learned nothing.

 

In the IPL when you are teammates with Starc, Rabada, Steyn - it is a great chance for Indian pacers to learn.

[rollingstoned]

4 hours ago, NameGoesHere said:

I was considering opening a thread but this is as good a place as any.

 

It is my contention that at the 20:20 international level our players seem to have lost their hunger.  Their primary focus - financial and sporting accomplishment wise - has become the IPL.  Not just that,  at some level INDIVIDUAL success or failure in that tournament (directly connected to financial and other rewards) is now equal to if not more than team accomplishment.  We are therefore seeing a collection of satisfied ‘superstars’ thrown together rather than a team of talented cricketers hungry to do well.   The flip side of that is that there will be comparatively few repercussions for failing -  there’s always the next IPL season where I’m sure we’ll be bigging up these guys again. 
 

One of the big learning for me in that fantastic last away tour of Australia was not just our Test bench was strong, but we had reserve players who were really desperate to do well.  I did not see that desire in this T20 Wc team.  I know it’s easy to take potshots at the IPL but this has started to worry me.  

 

 

 

 

to retain that hunger you need to do resets and purges every few years, else even with talent it all goes stale. if kohli didn't do it it will be forced on us the next few years. What happened in australia was a series of circumstances which pretty much forced our hand.

[Lone Wolf]

I am afraid we are far from finding a tournament winning side as of now.  Winning WC 2023 atm looks like a far fetched dream.  Our situation in ODI format is more dire than T20.

Lack of wicket takers & some random left armer blowing our top order is more common in ODIs than T20s.  Spin department is totally bare.   Fake All rounders & frauds exist. 

 

Need to leave out one among Rohit/Kohli to keep some sort of order & a good player of spin bowling unlike these two. 

Iyer looks like a gun pick for ODI format.  He should be a lock for WC 2023 ambitions. 

Kishan & Pant have to fight it out among themselves ultimately. 

 

[nevada]

Chahar the elder. Swing bowler and handy with the bat as well, with a match winning knock  in an ODI. Finally, it might occur to the selectors that he is an alternative to Bhuvi. 

[figo6762]

Lolhi .. has fukked up the team and yet will remain part of it … 

[nevada]

On 11/8/2021 at 6:49 AM, NameGoesHere said:

I was considering opening a thread but this is as good a place as any.

 

It is my contention that at the 20:20 international level our players seem to have lost their hunger.  Their primary focus - financial and sporting accomplishment wise - has become the IPL.  Not just that,  at some level INDIVIDUAL success or failure in that tournament (directly connected to financial and other rewards) is now equal to if not more than team accomplishment.  We are therefore seeing a collection of satisfied ‘superstars’ thrown together rather than a team of talented cricketers hungry to do well.   The flip side of that is that there will be comparatively few repercussions for failing -  there’s always the next IPL season where I’m sure we’ll be bigging up these guys again. 
 

One of the big learning for me in that fantastic last away tour of Australia was not just our Test bench was strong, but we had reserve players who were really desperate to do well.  I did not see that desire in this T20 Wc team.  I know it’s easy to take potshots at the IPL but this has started to worry me.  

 

 

 

 

Even in the IPL, Indian batsmen are riding the coat tails of phoren hitters, rarely looking to play a blazing knock. Only KL Rahul did major hands on scoring but he was hampered by a non existent middle order. Sanju Samson is a quick scorer but highly inconsistent. Rohit, Kohli and even Pant have delegated batting duties to others. Once you learn to delegate, switching to hands on work becomes a pain. 

Edited November 9, 2021 by nevada

[addicted4444]

On 11/7/2021 at 11:15 PM, AKane said:

 

Absolutely - We won the Gabba test with Siraj, Shardul and Natarajan bowling ( Saini unfortunately got hurt ). Impossible to prove but I don't think we win that match with Bumrah, Shami and Ishant bowling even disregarding Shardul's partnership with Sundar.

 

IPL has produced the talent we see today for better or worse. Without IPL we would not be seeing the availability of pace bowlers. We would still be  with Kumaran, Mohanty, Praveen Kumar types.

Lol, do you guys not watch the matches? That’s fine. But at least make the slightest bit of effort to lookup the stats before commenting…

 

Shami played one test and took a couple of wickets. 
 

While Bumrah was playing he was the top wicket taker. 
 

Our bowlers are fine. Our batters are fine. And our players are highly motivated to win especially playing for Team India. 
 

Unfortunately, our leadership keeps letting them down. There was absolutely no reasonable argument to keep Ashwin out of the team after the first match where our bowlers took 0 wickets. Opening the batting with Rohit and Rahul makes no sense at all. 
 

The Indian team lacks strategic thinking. It’s really as simple as that.