zen Posted January 31, 2022 Posted January 31, 2022 Tendulkar and Kallis are top contenders for the #4 slot in an AT Test 11 for Ind and SA respectively. Who would be your pick? At #4 (excluding BD and Zim, and when not playing as WK - none of these guys kept anyways) Tendulkar, avg 51 Kallis, avg 61 For me -> Two great players so can't go wrong with anyone but will go with Kallis for having a higher average while playing most of his games in SENA, and his bowling as a big bonus!
R!TTER Posted January 31, 2022 Posted January 31, 2022 (edited) Game, set, match Primary team England or India or New Zealand or Pakistan or South Africa or Sri Lanka or West Indies Opposition team Australia Involving any of the players GD McGrath (AUS) or SK Warne (AUS) Qualifications scores of fifty or more greater than or equal to 5 Ordered by batting average (descending) Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 34 of 34 First Previous Next Last Return to query menuCleared query menu Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s Saeed Anwar (PAK) 1994-1999 8 15 0 886 145 59.06 1629 54.38 3 5 1 115 6 Ijaz Ahmed (PAK) 1994-1999 8 15 2 733 155 56.38 1483 49.42 4 1 1 99 3 KP Pietersen (ENG) 2005-2007 10 20 2 963 158 53.50 1673 57.56 2 6 1 99 16 SR Tendulkar (INDIA) 1992-2004 14 26 2 1279 177 53.29 2006 63.75 5 6 2 161 13 BC Lara (WI) 1992-2005 27 50 2 2408 277 50.16 3962 60.77 7 9 4 318 17 KR Rutherford (NZ) 1993-1993 6 12 1 548 102 49.81 1048 52.29 1 4 0 71 3 GP Thorpe (ENG) 1993-2001 16 31 4 1235 138 45.74 2513 49.14 3 8 2 148 0 Aamer Sohail (PAK) 1994-1998 9 17 0 767 133 45.11 1396 54.94 2 4 0 108 3 VVS Laxman (INDIA) 1998-2004 12 22 0 963 281 43.77 1635 58.89 2 5 1 156 0 AC Hudson (SA) 1993-1997 7 12 1 481 102 43.72 1170 41.11 1 4 2 52 0 MR Ramprakash (ENG) 1993-2001 12 24 2 933 133 42.40 2195 42.50 1 6 0 97 2 GA Gooch (ENG) 1993-1995 11 22 0 918 133 41.72 2020 45.44 2 5 0 127 5 WJ Cronje (SA) 1993-1998 12 21 1 788 122 39.40 1798 43.82 1 6 3 90 5 NJ Astle (NZ) 1997-2005 14 27 3 930 156* 38.75 1780 52.24 1 5 1 120 1 JH Kallis (SA) 1997-2006 17 33 3 1105 114 36.83 2710 40.77 3 5 1 134 1 N Hussain (ENG) 1993-2002 22 43 4 1434 207 36.76 3383 42.38 2 9 3 179 4 CL Cairns (NZ) 1993-2001 13 24 1 834 109 36.26 1433 58.19 1 6 1 94 18 R Dravid (INDIA) 1996-2004 14 25 1 861 180 35.87 2432 35.40 1 5 2 101 2 GA Hick (ENG) 1993-1999 10 20 1 669 98* 35.21 1274 52.51 0 6 2 91 7 ME Trescothick (ENG) 2001-2005 14 28 0 972 90 34.71 1646 59.05 0 7 2 148 8 A Flintoff (ENG) 2005-2007 10 20 1 656 102 34.52 999 65.66 1 5 2 80 14 G Kirsten (SA) 1993-2002 18 34 1 1134 153 34.36 2865 39.58 2 5 3 144 1 Edited January 31, 2022 by R!TTER sandeep 1
mishra Posted January 31, 2022 Posted January 31, 2022 6 minutes ago, zen said: Tendulkar and Kallis are top contenders for the #4 slot in an AT Test 11 for Ind and SA respectively. Who would be your pick? At #4 (excluding BD and Zim, and when not playing as WK - none of these guys kept anyways) Tendulkar, avg 51 Kallis, avg 61 For me -> Two great players so can't go wrong with anyone but will go with Kallis for having a higher average while playing most of his games in SENA, and his bowling as a big bonus! Brilliant analysis @zen bhai. What next, Sachin never scored a century at Lords, on stats of scores at Lords Sachin is way behind allmost every player Swag, rollingstoned and sandeep 1 2
zen Posted January 31, 2022 Author Posted January 31, 2022 (edited) 16 minutes ago, mishra said: Brilliant analysis @zen bhai. What next, Sachin never scored a century at Lords, on stats of scores at Lords Sachin is way behind allmost every player I am picking based on utility of Kallis as an AR ... Irrespective of the average gap, I rate their batting skills at similar levels As for stats, I know Sachin's #s inside out: Performances versus key bowlers -> McGrath+Warne, Wasim+Waqar, Donald, and Murali in that ill fated series in SL are not that great (apart from scoring a 100 here and there like Rahane or Pant recently in SA) ... Did well as per his talent versus McGrath & Warne in 1999 and versus a washed out WI attack Performance at the point of entry of when the team is 100 or less (his average is much less versus Kallis', who has also batted in the top order #1-3) 500 runs in a series, 3 or more 100s in a series, & 4th innings performance And so on including knowing that he will not retire before playing 200 tests Here I am keeping it simple (utility). Will leave it for others to discuss #s out if they want Edited January 31, 2022 by zen
Popular Post sandeep Posted January 31, 2022 Popular Post Posted January 31, 2022 who would @zen pick between Tendulkar and Hardik Pandya. saik, Norman, sarcastic and 9 others 12
Adamant Posted January 31, 2022 Posted January 31, 2022 Kallis is obviously the better player coz he is an allrounder but Sachin was the better batsman. Why would anyone pick a batsman like Kallis at no. 4 in an AT X1 anyway? You don’t need a defensive batsman at 4 in at AT XI. Sachin would slot in perfectly at number 4 in an AT X1 specially bcoz he won't have much pressure on him and he thrives under those conditions unlike Kallis who is a proper back to the wall situation batsman.
Majestic Posted January 31, 2022 Posted January 31, 2022 (edited) In terms of utility, I will pick Kallis. You get an ATG batsman who is a good fifth bowler too. Tendulkar was obviously more aggressive batsman, stood up against Shane Warne like none. South Africa were considered second best team to Australia in that era but their biggest problem that none of their batsman could play Warne to save their life, the result was that SA always lost to Australia between 1995-2007. Had it been Tendulkar playing for them, they would have given stiff competition to Aussies and produced atleast one series vs the great Aussies at the same level as Ashes 2005, BG 2001, BG 2003-04. They had rest of the boxes ticked, their only problem was no one could dominate Warne to save their lives. Edited January 31, 2022 by Majestic kohli and Norman 1 1
Vilander Posted January 31, 2022 Posted January 31, 2022 If the question is no 4 its a very specific set of skills that made Tendulkar, Tendulkar. He will find that one bowler that the opposition banks on and take him on, no questions asked win some loose some but he will take on and change the course of the match. Kallis is the greatest all rounder he can drop down to 5 and both can play obviously, but is a grafter more Dravid mould that you can build around.
Real McCoy Posted January 31, 2022 Posted January 31, 2022 3 minutes ago, Vilander said: If the question is no 4 its a very specific set of skills that made Tendulkar, Tendulkar. He will find that one bowler that the opposition banks on and take him on, no questions asked win some loose some but he will take on and change the course of the match. Kallis is the greatest all rounder he can drop down to 5 and both can play obviously, but is a grafter more Dravid mould that you can build around. Kallis is not just a grafter. He fulfilled that role because his team wanted him to. He counter attacked when needed. 2010 cape town 2nd innings is an example. But I agree if going for a batsman, I would go for Sachin. If an allrounder is required, it would be Kallis.
Vilander Posted January 31, 2022 Posted January 31, 2022 1 hour ago, R!TTER said: Game, set, match Primary team England or India or New Zealand or Pakistan or South Africa or Sri Lanka or West Indies Opposition team Australia Involving any of the players GD McGrath (AUS) or SK Warne (AUS) Qualifications scores of fifty or more greater than or equal to 5 Ordered by batting average (descending) Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 34 of 34 First Previous Next Last Return to query menuCleared query menu Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s Saeed Anwar (PAK) 1994-1999 8 15 0 886 145 59.06 1629 54.38 3 5 1 115 6 Ijaz Ahmed (PAK) 1994-1999 8 15 2 733 155 56.38 1483 49.42 4 1 1 99 3 KP Pietersen (ENG) 2005-2007 10 20 2 963 158 53.50 1673 57.56 2 6 1 99 16 SR Tendulkar (INDIA) 1992-2004 14 26 2 1279 177 53.29 2006 63.75 5 6 2 161 13 BC Lara (WI) 1992-2005 27 50 2 2408 277 50.16 3962 60.77 7 9 4 318 17 KR Rutherford (NZ) 1993-1993 6 12 1 548 102 49.81 1048 52.29 1 4 0 71 3 GP Thorpe (ENG) 1993-2001 16 31 4 1235 138 45.74 2513 49.14 3 8 2 148 0 Aamer Sohail (PAK) 1994-1998 9 17 0 767 133 45.11 1396 54.94 2 4 0 108 3 VVS Laxman (INDIA) 1998-2004 12 22 0 963 281 43.77 1635 58.89 2 5 1 156 0 AC Hudson (SA) 1993-1997 7 12 1 481 102 43.72 1170 41.11 1 4 2 52 0 MR Ramprakash (ENG) 1993-2001 12 24 2 933 133 42.40 2195 42.50 1 6 0 97 2 GA Gooch (ENG) 1993-1995 11 22 0 918 133 41.72 2020 45.44 2 5 0 127 5 WJ Cronje (SA) 1993-1998 12 21 1 788 122 39.40 1798 43.82 1 6 3 90 5 NJ Astle (NZ) 1997-2005 14 27 3 930 156* 38.75 1780 52.24 1 5 1 120 1 JH Kallis (SA) 1997-2006 17 33 3 1105 114 36.83 2710 40.77 3 5 1 134 1 N Hussain (ENG) 1993-2002 22 43 4 1434 207 36.76 3383 42.38 2 9 3 179 4 CL Cairns (NZ) 1993-2001 13 24 1 834 109 36.26 1433 58.19 1 6 1 94 18 R Dravid (INDIA) 1996-2004 14 25 1 861 180 35.87 2432 35.40 1 5 2 101 2 GA Hick (ENG) 1993-1999 10 20 1 669 98* 35.21 1274 52.51 0 6 2 91 7 ME Trescothick (ENG) 2001-2005 14 28 0 972 90 34.71 1646 59.05 0 7 2 148 8 A Flintoff (ENG) 2005-2007 10 20 1 656 102 34.52 999 65.66 1 5 2 80 14 G Kirsten (SA) 1993-2002 18 34 1 1134 153 34.36 2865 39.58 2 5 3 144 1 Its funny to see KP Ten and Lara there huddled together very similar impact for their teams during their peak runs.
Vilander Posted January 31, 2022 Posted January 31, 2022 5 minutes ago, Real McCoy said: Kallis is not just a grafter. He fulfilled that role because his team wanted him to. He counter attacked when needed. 2010 cape town 2nd innings is an example. But I agree if going for a batsman, I would go for Sachin. If an allrounder is required, it would be Kallis. May be there was more to Kallis, there certainly was more to Dravid. Some of Kallis great moments had a Smith or a Kirsten playing a more aggressive inning around his stoic main show. I remember that test where only a fading Tendulkar and Kallis could come through, no other batsman was good enough to figure out the pitch. Some how it was not evident that Kallis was the best batsman and their teams talisman, there was someone else always. May be that's the strength if that SA side to have such riches across two generations that Kallis played.
Real McCoy Posted January 31, 2022 Posted January 31, 2022 1 hour ago, R!TTER said: Game, set, match Primary team England or India or New Zealand or Pakistan or South Africa or Sri Lanka or West Indies Opposition team Australia Involving any of the players GD McGrath (AUS) or SK Warne (AUS) Qualifications scores of fifty or more greater than or equal to 5 Ordered by batting average (descending) Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 34 of 34 First Previous Next Last Return to query menuCleared query menu Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s Saeed Anwar (PAK) 1994-1999 8 15 0 886 145 59.06 1629 54.38 3 5 1 115 6 Ijaz Ahmed (PAK) 1994-1999 8 15 2 733 155 56.38 1483 49.42 4 1 1 99 3 KP Pietersen (ENG) 2005-2007 10 20 2 963 158 53.50 1673 57.56 2 6 1 99 16 SR Tendulkar (INDIA) 1992-2004 14 26 2 1279 177 53.29 2006 63.75 5 6 2 161 13 BC Lara (WI) 1992-2005 27 50 2 2408 277 50.16 3962 60.77 7 9 4 318 17 KR Rutherford (NZ) 1993-1993 6 12 1 548 102 49.81 1048 52.29 1 4 0 71 3 GP Thorpe (ENG) 1993-2001 16 31 4 1235 138 45.74 2513 49.14 3 8 2 148 0 Aamer Sohail (PAK) 1994-1998 9 17 0 767 133 45.11 1396 54.94 2 4 0 108 3 VVS Laxman (INDIA) 1998-2004 12 22 0 963 281 43.77 1635 58.89 2 5 1 156 0 AC Hudson (SA) 1993-1997 7 12 1 481 102 43.72 1170 41.11 1 4 2 52 0 MR Ramprakash (ENG) 1993-2001 12 24 2 933 133 42.40 2195 42.50 1 6 0 97 2 GA Gooch (ENG) 1993-1995 11 22 0 918 133 41.72 2020 45.44 2 5 0 127 5 WJ Cronje (SA) 1993-1998 12 21 1 788 122 39.40 1798 43.82 1 6 3 90 5 NJ Astle (NZ) 1997-2005 14 27 3 930 156* 38.75 1780 52.24 1 5 1 120 1 JH Kallis (SA) 1997-2006 17 33 3 1105 114 36.83 2710 40.77 3 5 1 134 1 N Hussain (ENG) 1993-2002 22 43 4 1434 207 36.76 3383 42.38 2 9 3 179 4 CL Cairns (NZ) 1993-2001 13 24 1 834 109 36.26 1433 58.19 1 6 1 94 18 R Dravid (INDIA) 1996-2004 14 25 1 861 180 35.87 2432 35.40 1 5 2 101 2 GA Hick (ENG) 1993-1999 10 20 1 669 98* 35.21 1274 52.51 0 6 2 91 7 ME Trescothick (ENG) 2001-2005 14 28 0 972 90 34.71 1646 59.05 0 7 2 148 8 A Flintoff (ENG) 2005-2007 10 20 1 656 102 34.52 999 65.66 1 5 2 80 14 G Kirsten (SA) 1993-2002 18 34 1 1134 153 34.36 2865 39.58 2 5 3 144 1 In your search results, there are two padosis anwar and ijaz over SRT. So are you saying they are better than SRT Your search parameters are whack. Sachin plays in India whereas Kallis plays in SA. You tell me which is more batting friendly. anwar and ijaz are higher because of pakistani roads. what's with your 5 fifties or more criteria (its very odd that you went with this. why? does SRT shine like a god in this criteria ) I went with playing in Australia alone to make it even with the same 5 fifties criteria and this is the result View overall figures Primary team England or India or New Zealand or Pakistan or South Africa or Sri Lanka or West Indies Opposition team Australia Home or away away (home of opposition) Involving any of the players GD McGrath (AUS) or SK Warne (AUS) Qualifications scores of fifty or more greater than or equal to 5 Ordered by batting average (descending) Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 8 of 8 Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s MR Ramprakash (ENG) 1995-1999 6 12 2 493 72 49.30 1206 40.87 0 5 0 44 2 GP Thorpe (ENG) 1994-1998 6 12 1 530 123 48.18 1085 48.84 1 4 1 64 0 JH Kallis (SA) 1997-2006 8 16 2 645 111 46.07 1652 39.04 2 3 0 65 1 BC Lara (WI) 1992-2005 17 31 0 1370 277 44.19 2246 60.99 4 3 3 175 6 G Kirsten (SA) 1993-2002 9 17 1 698 153 43.62 1785 39.10 2 3 2 81 1 N Hussain (ENG) 1998-2002 9 18 1 642 89* 37.76 1618 39.67 0 6 0 63 3 AJ Stewart (ENG) 1994-2002 10 20 3 548 107 32.23 919 59.63 1 4 4 63 0 SP Fleming (NZ) 1997-2004 8 15 0 439 105 29.26 1001 43.85 1 4 5 52 0 Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 8 of 8 Statsguru includes the following current or recent Test matches: Australia v England at Hobart, 5th Test, Jan 14-16, 2022 [Test # 2449] South Africa v India at Cape Town, ICC World Test Championship 3rd Test, Jan 11-14, 2022 [Test # 2448] New Zealand v Bangladesh at Christchurch, ICC World Test Championship 2nd Test, Jan 9-11, 2022 [Test # 2447] Then I removed Warne from the criteria. Ironically Kallis' avg improves when Warne is removed whereas SRT's declines which I will show later. View overall figures Primary team England or India or New Zealand or Pakistan or South Africa or Sri Lanka or West Indies Opposition team Australia Home or away away (home of opposition) Involving the player GD McGrath (AUS) Qualifications scores of fifty or more greater than or equal to 5 Ordered by batting average (descending) Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 5 of 5 Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s JH Kallis (SA) 1997-2006 7 14 2 615 111 51.25 1585 38.80 2 3 0 59 1 MR Ramprakash (ENG) 1995-1999 6 12 2 493 72 49.30 1206 40.87 0 5 0 44 2 SP Fleming (NZ) 1997-2004 6 11 0 425 105 38.63 942 45.11 1 4 3 51 0 N Hussain (ENG) 1998-2002 9 18 1 642 89* 37.76 1618 39.67 0 6 0 63 3 AJ Stewart (ENG) 1994-2002 9 18 2 524 107 32.75 864 60.64 1 4 4 60 0 Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 5 of 5 Statsguru includes the following current or recent Test matches: Australia v England at Hobart, 5th Test, Jan 14-16, 2022 [Test # 2449] South Africa v India at Cape Town, ICC World Test Championship 3rd Test, Jan 11-14, 2022 [Test # 2448] Then I struck 5 fifties and put 3 matches as Sachin only played 3 matches in Aus v Mcgrath. So Kallis averages more than SRT in this case. I added Warne to the list and SRT averages 56 in that case. I'm not including that because it won't let me go to the end of the post to type new stuff in. So Kallis struggles mostly against Warne which is understandable as saffers are poor against spin whereas tendy struggles against mcgrath. what's ironic is padosi anwar shades srt even here. so much for his godly batting. View overall figures Primary team England or India or New Zealand or Pakistan or South Africa or Sri Lanka or West Indies Opposition team Australia Home or away away (home of opposition) Involving the player GD McGrath (AUS) Qualifications matches played greater than or equal to 3 Ordered by batting average (descending) Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 122 of 122 Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s AC Parore (NZ) 1997-2001 4 7 4 201 110 67.00 459 43.79 1 0 0 19 1 MP Vaughan (ENG) 2002-2002 4 8 0 450 177 56.25 806 55.83 2 0 1 51 7 KP Pietersen (ENG) 2006-2007 5 10 1 490 158 54.44 1011 48.46 1 3 0 48 2 JH Kallis (SA) 1997-2006 7 14 2 615 111 51.25 1585 38.80 2 3 0 59 1 GP Thorpe (ENG) 1994-1998 3 6 0 304 123 50.66 709 42.87 1 2 1 37 0 MR Ramprakash (ENG) 1995-1999 6 12 2 493 72 49.30 1206 40.87 0 5 0 44 2 PD Collingwood (ENG) 2006-2007 5 10 1 433 206 48.11 977 44.31 1 1 0 44 2 NJ Astle (NZ) 1997-2004 6 11 1 474 156* 47.40 937 50.58 1 2 0 57 1 Saeed Anwar (PAK) 1999-1999 3 6 0 282 119 47.00 484 58.26 1 2 1 38 1 SR Tendulkar (INDIA) 1999-2000 3 6 0 278 116 46.33 508 54.72 1 2 1 30 1 CL Hooper (WI) 1996-1997 5 9 1 362 102 45.25 731 49.52 1 2 0 42 1 Ijaz Ahmed (PAK) 1995-1999 5 10 1 399 137 44.33 808 49.38 2 1 1 54 2 Younis Khan (PAK) 2004-2005 3 6 0 259 87 43.16 513 50.48 0 1 0 31 0 HP Tillakaratne (SL) 1995-1996 3 6 0 245 119 40.83 592 41.38 1 1 0 17 0 WJ Cronje (SA) 1994-1998 3 6 0 242 88 40.33 695 34.82 0 2 1 20 0 AP Gurusinha (SL) 1995-1996 3 6 0 242 143 40.33 588 41.15 1 0 0 21 1 1995-1995 3 6 0 233 99 38.83 431 54.06 0 2 0 28 1
Real McCoy Posted January 31, 2022 Posted January 31, 2022 24 minutes ago, Vilander said: May be there was more to Kallis, there certainly was more to Dravid. Some of Kallis great moments had a Smith or a Kirsten playing a more aggressive inning around his stoic main show. I remember that test where only a fading Tendulkar and Kallis could come through, no other batsman was good enough to figure out the pitch. Some how it was not evident that Kallis was the best batsman and their teams talisman, there was someone else always. May be that's the strength if that SA side to have such riches across two generations that Kallis played. Sure even Dravid is underestimated by most. But Kallis is a talisman for more than his batting. his bowling as the 5th bowler was more than useful in all conditions. I remember saffers pwning India in 2000 won both tests away from their home. Kallis bowling was much more better in his younger years. He had to shelve his bowling to 5th bowler duties as top order batting was required. He batted at 3 mostly and only moved to 4 later on when Amla came to the fore much like Lara. Unlike our Tendy, he wasn't adamant on the cosy no.4 spot. Kallis was a team man and he left a giant hole in their team. He was their best player Vilander 1
zen Posted January 31, 2022 Author Posted January 31, 2022 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Real McCoy said: In your search results, there are two padosis anwar and ijaz over SRT. So are you saying they are better than SRT Your search parameters are whack. Sachin plays in India whereas Kallis plays in SA. You tell me which is more batting friendly. anwar and ijaz are higher because of pakistani roads. what's with your 5 fifties or more criteria (its very odd that you went with this. why? does SRT shine like a god in this criteria ) I went with playing in Australia alone to make it even with the same 5 fifties criteria and this is the result You are correct about those numbers as a) they use McGrath or Warne, b) fail to account for Kallis batting in SA & Aus, where Aus bowlers are more at home, c) SA line up is not that great versus spin so additional pressure on SA due to Warne factor, d) the frequency of SA-Aus series, and e) Kallis batting at various batting position Below when we account for both McGrath & Warne playing, and versus peers: Primary team India Opposition team Australia Involving all of the players GD McGrath (AUS) or SK Warne (AUS) Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 200 Ordered by batting average (descending) Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s V Sehwag 2004-2004 3 6 1 286 155 57.20 409 69.92 1 1 1 42 0 VVS Laxman 1999-2004 9 17 0 777 281 45.70 1272 61.08 2 3 1 125 0 SR Tendulkar 1999-2004 7 14 0 592 126 42.28 1067 55.48 2 4 1 76 3 R Dravid 1999-2004 9 17 0 540 180 31.76 1597 33.81 1 2 2 62 1 S Ramesh 1999-2001 5 10 1 222 61 24.66 475 46.73 0 1 1 25 0 SC Ganguly 1999-2004 8 15 0 342 60 22.80 750 45.60 0 1 0 43 0 Primary team South Africa Opposition team Australia Involving all of the players GD McGrath (AUS) or SK Warne (AUS) Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 200 Ordered by batting average (descending) Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s JH Kallis 1997-2006 13 25 3 848 111 38.54 2152 39.40 2 5 1 95 1 WJ Cronje 1994-1998 8 14 1 493 88 37.92 1233 39.98 0 4 2 56 3 ND McKenzie 2001-2002 6 12 1 415 99 37.72 929 44.67 0 3 1 62 1 JN Rhodes 1994-1997 4 7 1 220 78 36.66 617 35.65 0 2 0 23 1 HH Gibbs 1997-2006 11 22 0 795 104 36.13 1680 47.32 1 5 0 123 0 BM McMillan 1994-1998 6 11 1 361 84 36.10 988 36.53 0 4 0 37 0 AC Hudson 1994-1997 4 7 0 248 102 35.42 539 46.01 1 1 2 35 0 SM Pollock 1997-2006 10 19 6 420 67* 32.30 764 54.97 0 2 2 52 4 AM Bacher 1997-1998 4 8 0 244 96 30.50 732 33.33 0 1 0 25 1 AG Prince 2002-2006 6 12 0 360 119 30.00 940 38.29 1 0 1 38 0 G Kirsten 1994-2002 14 27 0 801 153 29.66 2125 37.69 1 4 3 98 0 GC Smith 2002-2006 5 10 0 269 68 26.90 554 48.55 0 1 0 37 0 DJ Richardson 1994-1998 8 14 2 294 72* 24.50 766 38.38 0 2 2 31 2 MV Boucher 2001-2006 9 18 2 383 64 23.93 695 55.10 0 2 3 50 1 ^ Kallis is the best batsman for SA, which is not the case for Sachin for India At #4 Primary team India or South Africa Opposition team Australia Involving all of the players GD McGrath (AUS) or SK Warne (AUS) Batting position equal to 4 Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 200 Ordered by batting average (descending) Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s JH Kallis (SA) 2001-2006 8 14 3 601 111 54.63 1345 44.68 1 5 0 73 1 SR Tendulkar (INDIA) 1999-2004 6 11 0 466 126 42.36 822 56.69 2 2 0 57 3 At #4, Kallis averages 55 versus Tendulkar 42 when both McGrath & Warne are playing! Edited January 31, 2022 by zen
Vilander Posted January 31, 2022 Posted January 31, 2022 13 minutes ago, Real McCoy said: Sure even Dravid is underestimated by most. But Kallis is a talisman for more than his batting. his bowling as the 5th bowler was more than useful in all conditions. I remember saffers pwning India in 2000 won both tests away from their home. Kallis bowling was much more better in his younger years. He had to shelve his bowling to 5th bowler duties as top order batting was required. He batted at 3 mostly and only moved to 4 later on when Amla came to the fore much like Lara. Unlike our Tendy, he wasn't adamant on the cosy no.4 spot. Kallis was a team man and he left a giant hole in their team. He was their best player In terms of utility he was Dravid plus Zaheer Khan. No one comes close for sure. Real McCoy and anish2tweet 1 1
Real McCoy Posted January 31, 2022 Posted January 31, 2022 15 minutes ago, zen said: You are correct about those numbers as a) they use McGrath or Warne, b) fails to account for Kallis batting in SA & Aus, where Aus bowlers are more at home, c) SA line up is not that great versus spin so additional pressure on SA due to Warne factor, d) the frequency of SA-Aus series, and e) Kallis batted at various batting position Below when we account for both McGrath & Warne playing, and versus peers: Primary team India Opposition team Australia Involving all of the players GD McGrath (AUS) or SK Warne (AUS) Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 200 Ordered by batting average (descending) Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s V Sehwag 2004-2004 3 6 1 286 155 57.20 409 69.92 1 1 1 42 0 VVS Laxman 1999-2004 9 17 0 777 281 45.70 1272 61.08 2 3 1 125 0 SR Tendulkar 1999-2004 7 14 0 592 126 42.28 1067 55.48 2 4 1 76 3 R Dravid 1999-2004 9 17 0 540 180 31.76 1597 33.81 1 2 2 62 1 S Ramesh 1999-2001 5 10 1 222 61 24.66 475 46.73 0 1 1 25 0 SC Ganguly 1999-2004 8 15 0 342 60 22.80 750 45.60 0 1 0 43 0 Primary team South Africa Opposition team Australia Involving all of the players GD McGrath (AUS) or SK Warne (AUS) Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 200 Ordered by batting average (descending) Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s JH Kallis 1997-2006 13 25 3 848 111 38.54 2152 39.40 2 5 1 95 1 WJ Cronje 1994-1998 8 14 1 493 88 37.92 1233 39.98 0 4 2 56 3 ND McKenzie 2001-2002 6 12 1 415 99 37.72 929 44.67 0 3 1 62 1 JN Rhodes 1994-1997 4 7 1 220 78 36.66 617 35.65 0 2 0 23 1 HH Gibbs 1997-2006 11 22 0 795 104 36.13 1680 47.32 1 5 0 123 0 BM McMillan 1994-1998 6 11 1 361 84 36.10 988 36.53 0 4 0 37 0 AC Hudson 1994-1997 4 7 0 248 102 35.42 539 46.01 1 1 2 35 0 SM Pollock 1997-2006 10 19 6 420 67* 32.30 764 54.97 0 2 2 52 4 AM Bacher 1997-1998 4 8 0 244 96 30.50 732 33.33 0 1 0 25 1 AG Prince 2002-2006 6 12 0 360 119 30.00 940 38.29 1 0 1 38 0 G Kirsten 1994-2002 14 27 0 801 153 29.66 2125 37.69 1 4 3 98 0 GC Smith 2002-2006 5 10 0 269 68 26.90 554 48.55 0 1 0 37 0 DJ Richardson 1994-1998 8 14 2 294 72* 24.50 766 38.38 0 2 2 31 2 MV Boucher 2001-2006 9 18 2 383 64 23.93 695 55.10 0 2 3 50 1 At #4 Primary team India or South Africa Opposition team Australia Involving all of the players GD McGrath (AUS) or SK Warne (AUS) Batting position equal to 4 Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 200 Ordered by batting average (descending) Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s JH Kallis (SA) 2001-2006 8 14 3 601 111 54.63 1345 44.68 1 5 0 73 1 SR Tendulkar (INDIA) 1999-2004 6 11 0 466 126 42.36 822 56.69 2 2 0 57 3 At #4, Kallis averages 55 versus Tendulkar 42 when both McGrath & Warne are playing! You argue the case well here but what's your ultimate motive here. Are you setting us up for a CDP special thread
Jay Posted January 31, 2022 Posted January 31, 2022 But one argument that works in favour of tenda is the fact that he had poor bowlers supporting him. Which suggests tenda will be more fatigued if the team has to tail hard on the field to bowl out opposition. Kalis however was an all rounder so he has additional priorities himself which evens it out anyway.
Pollack Posted February 1, 2022 Posted February 1, 2022 Why would anyone judge a SENA player based on his performance in SENA? He should be judged on the basis of his performance in subcontinent. sandeep 1
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