#HijabRow in Karnataka Schools - where do you stand?

[Clarke]

3 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

 

 

Anti-CAA 2.0 - agenda for 2024 taiyaar aur hoshiyaar raho!! 

 

 

Bring it on, court will put them in their place again. 

[Alam_dar]

My Final Verdict upon Muskan (Hijab) case as a True Secularist

In a True Secular State, a woman should have right to wear whatever she wants. 

This right could not be snatched away from them in name of Uniform. 

Moreover, the opponents have still not given any satisfactory answer if they are going to prohibit Sikh Turban and beard, Sindoor, Mangal Sootar and Rings in fingers in name of uniform too?

 

But, not only Hijab, but each and every Religious Activity should be banned for children under the age of 18 years in a True Secular State

I consider it to be an utmost DUTY of a true Secular State to protect the rights of the children. And the most important right of children is to stop the parents to tell them that they are Muslims or Christian or Sikh or Hindu by birth. And to stop the parents to make children to pray either in the house or in the mosque/mandir/church. And there should be no Quran Madrassa for the children. And there should be no Hijab for the girls till the age of 18 years. And there should be a ban upon the circumcision of the young boys. 

And after 18, everyone should have the right to follow and practice any ideology/religion at his/her own. 

 

Tajikistan has already banned Hijab and Mosque for the Children under the age of 18

Tajikistan has already banned for the parents to take their children to the mosque, or the young girls to take Hijab. 

European countries should also follow this true spirit of the Secularism, and save the children from any religious brainwashing from their parents. But it will become difficult, while not only Muslims in Europe will oppose it, but even some of the Christian families could also object upon it. Especially in America, religious Christians are also hardcore Christians. 

 

In a True Secular India too, all religious activities should be banned for the children under the age of 18. Unfortunately, not only Indian Muslims would object to it, but many of the Hindus will oppose it too along with the Christians. 

Note:
I have not written it as a non-religious person (atheist), but as a true Secularist. 
Atheism is limited to my individual personal life only. But Secularism is "sacred"  and our "collective life" as a society should be governed through Secularism. 

Edited February 11, 2022 by Alam_dar

[Trichromatic]

Poll added.

[dial_100]

I personally am not against hijab, ghunghat or whatever other crap is out there. Keep it up. It is all individual fight or a choice. 

 

If not allowing Hijab or anything other than school uniform in school means "Aabru / Ijjat se khilwaad" then such students should stay home. But anyone want to wear whatever they want outside of school / college then everyone should respect that.

 

I personally feel Hindus should stop judging others. Mind your own business and let them do what they please. 

 

Rest is all politics. 

[Yoda-esque]

What we are seeing in India is the classic 20 percent critical mass tipping point after which there's the point of no return.

From this point on, you will only see violence by minorities at the slightest drop of a hat .

[Yoda-esque]

I personally am not against hijab, ghunghat or whatever other crap is out there. Keep it up. It is all individual fight or a choice. 
 
If not allowing Hijab or anything other than school uniform in school means "Aabru / Ijjat se khilwaad" then such students should stay home. But anyone want to wear whatever they want outside of school / college then everyone should respect that.
 
I personally feel Hindus should stop judging others. Mind your own business and let them do what they please. 
 
Rest is all politics. 

So if a school has a uniform, allow them to do what they want?

Allow them to have own rules for everything?

[Yoda-esque]

Shekulars here should ask for progressive Muslims to intervene instead of supporting this .

But shekularism ki goli Jo khaayi hai

[Alam_dar]

29 minutes ago, Yoda-esque said:

Shekulars here should ask for progressive Muslims to intervene instead of supporting this .

But shekularism ki goli Jo khaayi hai

 

Off course, according to the principles of Secularism, there is no other choice left other than to support the rights of an individual person. Especially, when the opponents also have not given any satisfactory answer if they are going to ban the Sikh Turban, Sikh beard,  Sindoor, Mangal Sootar, rings in the fingers etc. 

 

In a true secular state, the personal rights and liberties of a person have the utmost importance, and other rules are made while accommodating this basic principle. Thus private schools and the private offices could not take away these personal liberties without any valid reason (for example, if hijab hampers their work in any way).  

 

All the true secular european countries have the same ruling, and thus they had to allow hijab in the schools too. 

Indian secularists are also no different than the european secularists or any other secularist on this planet earth. 

 

After schools the next step from the right wing will be to ban Burqa and beard in all the private offices (and that too unilaterally i.e. Sikh Turbans and Hindu religious signs like tilk, sindoor, mangal sootars will not be banned). Thus off course, Secularists will always oppose any such double standards by the right wing naturally.

 

Therefore, please don't blame the secularists for opposing the right wing on this issue. 

Edited February 11, 2022 by Alam_dar

[coffee_rules]

People equating Sikh turbans to hijab/burqa, kindly note that article 25 of the constitution is interpreted as freedom of religion to what is considered as essential part of religion. Sikh turbans are part of Granth Sahib and is considered essential. India law doesn’t recognize (yet) that recognize hijab/burqa as essential part of Islam. Some interpret hijab/purdah/naqab are in one’s mind and not literally on women’s body. These customs are changing every year, if you go to any mall, the amount of Muslim women in burqas is probably like 60-70% in India, especially young girls. It may be easier to convince them.?

 

The issue here is not hijab should be banned altogether. It is only to be restricted in classrooms , repeat IN CLASSROOMS, for under-18 year old girls as part of uniform. Even this is left to the admin/management of schools who form these rules with the PTA. 
 

In most Govt schools and Christian missionary schools, wearing hijab, bindi, bangles, nail polish, is restricted. Either allow all religious symbols or restrict all. That is true secularism. In US, there is no restriction, they allow all, but there is min dress code about covering shoulders and nothing above knees
 

I think if they rule that hijab is essential part of Islam, it is tough when Islamists start demanding it to be essential in MPLaws and force all Muslim women to wear head coverings 

Edited February 11, 2022 by coffee_rules

[mishra]

Deleted

Edited February 11, 2022 by mishra

[mishra]

I am not sure how many people come from rural background on icf, but among Hindus, a practice called “Ghoonghat” has developed and still exists. Same libdus supportin Hijaab were once rightly against “Ghoonghat” system.

 

Both practices are deplorable and any libdu or Educatted Muslim supporting it is actually doing great injustice to Indian Muslim Women. FFS, for once, think about those women.

 

PS: @Alam_dar Ghoonghat and not “ Sikh turban” is comparable to hijaab.

 

Other things you mentioned means you are supporting to ban jewellery and makeup. Not sure women or  Industry will agree to it. Most importantly they are not signs of oppression.

[ash]

Lol at people acting as if they are doing a service to Indian Muslim women by wanting to ban Hijab 

 

Religion as a concept is forced by parents on their children. No child learns about a particular religion on his own. There is no data available on how many people actually believe in religion vs how many are forced to follow some rituals by parents.

Are all muslim women forced to wear Hijab? Are all Christians willingly going to church on a Sunday or forced by parents? What about mangalsutra, are all married women happy to wear it, or forced by the elders in their house. Do Brahmins kids  like wearing the threads or forced?? NOBODY KNOWS, we don’t have the data. 

 

An atheist Can make a sweeping statement like 90 percent of kids in all religions are brainwashed, so let’s ban religion. Will anyone agree? 
 

First understand the issue, the debate is not if Hijab, or turban or cross is right or wrong. The issue is about freedom to practice religion. 

 

 

[Alam_dar]

1 hour ago, mishra said:

I am not sure how many people come from rural background on icf, but among Hindus, a practice called “Ghoonghat” has developed and still exists. Same libdus supportin Hijaab were once rightly against “Ghoonghat” system.

 

Both practices are deplorable and any libdu or Educatted Muslim supporting it is actually doing great injustice to Indian Muslim Women. FFS, for once, think about those women.

 

I don't think any Liberal is in favour of Hijab on the personal level, especially if it is "forced" upon the girls and women. 

But the problem arises when Muslim girls/women are brainwashed to such an extent, where they themselves want to take Hijab. 

Now we have 2 ways of liberating the Muslim women. 

 

First is to remove their Hijab by force, and the 2nd one is to make them realise themselves that Hijab is not liberating them, but it is only making their lives miserable. 

 

Secularists are not in favour of the first option. Reason is simple that it backfires and Muslim women will start taking more and more pride in taking Hijab as a "reaction", and Muslim radicals will get a lot of support. 

 

The 2nd option is difficult one, and needs a lot of patience, but this is indeed the correct and the better option. In this case, Muslim women/girls will themselves fight against Islam and the radical Muslims. 

 

Moreover, I have got 100% success when I brought this truth to the Muslim women/girls that Hijab was not introduced in Islam for any modesty, but it was introduced only in order to differentiate between the free Muslim woman and the slave woman. Prophet Muhammad not only prohibited Hijab for the slave-women, but their breasts were naked too in Islamic Sharia. 

 

Problem lies in our ignorance. 
99% Muslims of today don't know it (It was the same that 99% Muslims didn't know that Islam permits the owner to rape his slave-girl without her consent. But the present world came to know about this truth only after ISIS started raping the Yazid girls in name of slavery). 

 

The day, when we start telling the Muslim women/girls about this truth of naked slave-women and how Hijab was used to discriminate against them, that day will be the last day of Islamic Hijab. 

 

[Yoda-esque]

 
Off course, according to the principles of Secularism, there is no other choice left other than to support the rights of an individual person. Especially, when the opponents also have not given any satisfactory answer if they are going to ban the Sikh Turban, Sikh beard,  Sindoor, Mangal Sootar, rings in the fingers etc. 
 
In a true secular state, the personal rights and liberties of a person have the utmost importance, and other rules are made while accommodating this basic principle. Thus private schools and the private offices could not take away these personal liberties without any valid reason (for example, if hijab hampers their work in any way).  
 
All the true secular european countries have the same ruling, and thus they had to allow hijab in the schools too. 
Indian secularists are also no different than the european secularists or any other secularist on this planet earth. 
 
After schools the next step from the right wing will be to ban Burqa and beard in all the private offices (and that too unilaterally i.e. Sikh Turbans and Hindu religious signs like tilk, sindoor, mangal sootars will not be banned). Thus off course, Secularists will always oppose any such double standards by the right wing naturally.
 
Therefore, please don't blame the secularists for opposing the right wing on this issue. 

There's a dress code and people need to follow it. Else find a school that allows for this.

All this is manufactured considering that till December these "innocent" girls were not wearing the cloth.

Please don't make our country like yours.Our rich cultures are indic and we don't need a desert culture to preach tolerance and human rights to us. Thank You.

[velu]

before every major election opposition/libtards do some stupid stunt against bjp..

and unintentionally they end up helping bjp ..

 

this is one of those stunts 

[ash]

27 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

The 2nd option is difficult one, and needs a lot of patience, but this is indeed the correct and the better option. In this case, Muslim women/girls will themselves fight against Islam and the radical Muslims. 

Agree. I really hope in future I would be able to see a world with Atheist majority, or atleast an end to radicalism in all religions.

[diga]

taqiya & crypto ... nice combo

[Pollack]

2 hours ago, ash said:

Lol at people acting as if they are doing a service to Indian Muslim women by wanting to ban Hijab 

 

Religion as a concept is forced by parents on their children. No child learns about a particular religion on his own. There is no data available on how many people actually believe in religion vs how many are forced to follow some rituals by parents.

Are all muslim women forced to wear Hijab? Are all Christians willingly going to church on a Sunday or forced by parents? What about mangalsutra, are all married women happy to wear it, or forced by the elders in their house. Do Brahmins kids  like wearing the threads or forced?? NOBODY KNOWS, we don’t have the data. 

 

An atheist Can make a sweeping statement like 90 percent of kids in all religions are brainwashed, so let’s ban religion. Will anyone agree? 
 

First understand the issue, the debate is not if Hijab, or turban or cross is right or wrong. The issue is about freedom to practice religion. 

 

 

A child is born innocent. Parents teach them to live a life a particular way. They teach them what is right or wrong. If teaching religion is forcing children then everything is forced since a child has no decision making or choice when he is born. Even the intelligence to make a choice is acquired based on environmental or upbringing. Regarding mangalsutra, I haven't encountered any practising Hindu woman who hate wearing a mangulsutra and is forced to do so. Most like to flaunt it and even improvise. 

Edited February 11, 2022 by Pollack

[maniac]

2 hours ago, ash said:

Lol at people acting as if they are doing a service to Indian Muslim women by wanting to ban Hijab 

 

Religion as a concept is forced by parents on their children. No child learns about a particular religion on his own. There is no data available on how many people actually believe in religion vs how many are forced to follow some rituals by parents.

Are all muslim women forced to wear Hijab? Are all Christians willingly going to church on a Sunday or forced by parents? What about mangalsutra, are all married women happy to wear it, or forced by the elders in their house. Do Brahmins kids  like wearing the threads or forced?? NOBODY KNOWS, we don’t have the data. 

 

An atheist Can make a sweeping statement like 90 percent of kids in all religions are brainwashed, so let’s ban religion. Will anyone agree? 
 

First understand the issue, the debate is not if Hijab, or turban or cross is right or wrong. The issue is about freedom to practice religion. 

 

 

i don’t know why you keep putting the disclaimer of being an atheist.

 

i am not one but neither am I religious but simple 

 

if there is an institutional dress code you obey it. As simple as that.

 

everywhere else if people are forcing and telling you what to wear etc than you have a genuine issue.

 

since you don’t believe in god, whatever the opposite of that surely gave us some brains and common sense. Don’t you think?

[Yoda-esque]

A child is born innocent. Parents teach them to live a life a particular way. They teach them what is right or wrong. If teaching religion is forcing children then everything is forced since a child has no decision making or choice when he is born. Even the intelligence to make a choice is acquired based on environmental or upbringing. Regarding mangalsutra, I haven't encountered any practising Hindu woman who hate wearing a mangulsutra and is forced to do so. Most like to flaunt it and even improvise. 

The girl in question has been shown wearing all sorts of dresses .So not sure she's forced.Its just mischief.