What will be the fate of Ishant Sharma's test career now?

[Trichromatic]

6 minutes ago, express bowling said:

As Ishant is our only tall, " bounce " bowler ....when we play in SA, Australia, NZ and WI....I expect Ishant to be our second pacer after Shami. He has done quite well away from home in the last 30 months.

 

The 3rd pacer will probably vary between Bhuvi and Umesh with Hardik playing as the 4th seamer / all-rounder.

 

We saw the same thing happen on the WI tour when Kohli specifically stated that Ishant is our second pacer.

 

Umesh is the 2nd pacer in India as he is a skiddy fast bowler who can reverse the ball at pace ....and such pacers work in India.

 

In England and on all the grounds where there is swing on offer......Bhuvi will be our second pacer

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
R Ashwin	2014-2016	23	41	969.0	200	2852	131	7/59	13/140	21.77	2.94	44.3	13	4
RA Jadeja	2014-2016	17	31	720.2	192	1656	62	5/21	8/76	26.70	2.29	69.7	3	0
I Sharma	2014-2016	19	33	589.0	120	1890	60	7/74	9/162	31.50	3.20	58.9	4	0
Mohammed Shami	2014-2016	18	34	593.3	99	2033	59	5/112	6/116	34.45	3.42	60.3	1	0
UT Yadav	2014-2016	15	30	413.2	90	1451	33	4/41	5/41	43.96	3.51	75.1	0	0
B Kumar	2014-2016	9	14	283.3	73	809	32	6/82	6/46	25.28	2.85	53.1	4	0
A Mishra	2015-2016	8	16	228.2	35	736	31	4/43	7/72	23.74	3.22	44.1	0	0
VR Aaron	2014-2015	8	12	166.1	8	818	15	3/97	3/97	54.53	4.92	66.4	0	0
Z Khan	2014-2014	2	4	107.0	20	382	9	5/170	5/227	42.44	3.57	71.3	1	0
J Yadav	2016-2016	2	4	50.3	14	138	8	3/30	4/68	17.25	2.73	37.8	0	0
Harbhajan Singh	2015-2015	2	4	47.5	5	165	4	3/64	3/75	41.25	3.44	71.7	0	0
KV Sharma	2014-2014	1	2	49.0	3	238	4	2/95	4/238	59.50	4.85	73.5	0	0
STR Binny	2014-2015	6	7	75.0	12	258	3	2/24	2/73	86.00	3.44	150.0	0	0
Pankaj Singh	2014-2014	2	3	75.0	17	292	2	2/113	2/113	146.00	3.89	225.0	0	0

[express bowling]

40 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
R Ashwin	2014-2016	23	41	969.0	200	2852	131	7/59	13/140	21.77	2.94	44.3	13	4
RA Jadeja	2014-2016	17	31	720.2	192	1656	62	5/21	8/76	26.70	2.29	69.7	3	0
I Sharma	2014-2016	19	33	589.0	120	1890	60	7/74	9/162	31.50	3.20	58.9	4	0
Mohammed Shami	2014-2016	18	34	593.3	99	2033	59	5/112	6/116	34.45	3.42	60.3	1	0
UT Yadav	2014-2016	15	30	413.2	90	1451	33	4/41	5/41	43.96	3.51	75.1	0	0
B Kumar	2014-2016	9	14	283.3	73	809	32	6/82	6/46	25.28	2.85	53.1	4	0
A Mishra	2015-2016	8	16	228.2	35	736	31	4/43	7/72	23.74	3.22	44.1	0	0
VR Aaron	2014-2015	8	12	166.1	8	818	15	3/97	3/97	54.53	4.92	66.4	0	0
Z Khan	2014-2014	2	4	107.0	20	382	9	5/170	5/227	42.44	3.57	71.3	1	0
J Yadav	2016-2016	2	4	50.3	14	138	8	3/30	4/68	17.25	2.73	37.8	0	0
Harbhajan Singh	2015-2015	2	4	47.5	5	165	4	3/64	3/75	41.25	3.44	71.7	0	0
KV Sharma	2014-2014	1	2	49.0	3	238	4	2/95	4/238	59.50	4.85	73.5	0	0
STR Binny	2014-2015	6	7	75.0	12	258	3	2/24	2/73	86.00	3.44	150.0	0	0
Pankaj Singh	2014-2014	2	3	75.0	17	292	2	2/113	2/113	146.00	3.89	225.0	0	0

 

 

These are the figures away from home from 2014

 

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
I Sharma	2014-2016	16	28	527.0	93	1775	59	7/74	9/162	30.08	3.36	53.5	4	0
R Ashwin	2014-2016	13	22	484.1	87	1554	58	7/83	10/160	26.79	3.20	50.0	5	1
Mohammed Shami	2014-2016	12	22	415.2	67	1538	41	5/112	6/145	37.51	3.70	60.7	1	0
B Kumar	2014-2016	8	12	256.3	67	733	26	6/82	6/46	28.19	2.85	59.1	3	0
A Mishra	2015-2016	5	10	148.5	27	457	21	4/43	7/72	21.76	3.07	42.5	0	0
UT Yadav	2014-2016	8	16	230.3	42	960	21	4/41	5/75	45.71	4.16	65.8	0	0
RA Jadeja	2014-2016	7	12	274.3	52	724	15	3/52	5/205	48.26	2.63	109.8	0	0
VR Aaron	2014-2015	6	9	146.1	7	746	13	3/97	3/97	57.38	5.10	67.4	0	0
Z Khan	2014-2014	2	4	107.0	20	382	9	5/170	5/227	42.44	3.57	71.3	1	0
Harbhajan Singh	2015-2015	2	4	47.5	5	165	4	3/64	3/75	41.25	3.44	71.7	0	0
KV Sharma	2014-2014	1	2	49.0	3	238	4	2/95	4/238	59.50	4.85	73.5	0	0
STR Binny	2014-2015	5	6	72.0	10	257	3	2/24	2/73	85.66	3.56	144.0	0	0
Pankaj Singh	2014-2014	2	3	75.0	17	292	2	2/113	2/113	146.00	3.89	225.0	0	0

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=2;orderby=wickets;spanmin1=01+Jan+2014;spanval1=span;team=6;template=results;type=bowling

 

For reference...this is  a list of  how Indian pacers have done away from home in our history ( minimum 30 wickets ).  Only one pacer has done an average better than 30.

 

 

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Balls	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
IK Pathan	2003-2008	15	28	3242	1867	73	7/59	12/126	25.57	3.45	44.4	7	2
Z Khan	2000-2014	54	95	11476	6516	207	7/87	10/149	31.47	3.40	55.4	8	1
N Kapil Dev	1978-1994	66	108	15529	7064	215	8/85	8/85	32.85	2.72	72.2	12	0
C Sharma	1984-1989	13	23	2397	1410	42	6/58	10/188	33.57	3.52	57.0	3	1
J Srinath	1991-2002	35	64	9074	4322	128	6/76	8/104	33.76	2.85	70.8	5	0
RP Singh	2006-2011	12	22	2216	1447	40	5/59	7/117	36.17	3.91	55.4	1	0
BKV Prasad	1996-2001	22	36	5044	2516	69	5/60	10/153	36.46	2.99	73.1	5	1
S Sreesanth	2006-2011	16	29	3344	2045	56	5/40	8/99	36.51	3.66	59.7	2	0
I Sharma	2007-2016	47	81	9434	5484	146	7/74	10/108	37.56	3.48	64.6	6	1
KD Ghavri	1977-1981	12	19	2336	1224	32	5/107	7/138	38.25	3.14	73.0	1	0
Mohammed Shami	2013-2016	14	26	2942	1801	47	5/112	6/145	38.31	3.67	62.5	1	0
M Prabhakar	1989-1993	23	41	6025	2858	73	6/132	6/92	39.15	2.84	82.5	3	0
S Abid Ali	1967-1974	19	32	3023	1478	36	6/55	7/116	41.05	2.93	83.9	1	0
S Madan Lal	1974-1986	21	32	3692	1777	43	5/72	6/99	41.32	2.88	85.8	2	0
A Nehra	1999-2004	16	28	3309	1800	43	4/72	6/117	41.86	3.26	76.9	0	0
UT Yadav	2011-2016	12	22	2091	1511	35	5/93	7/176	43.17	4.33	59.7	1	0
AB Agarkar	1998-2006	18	31	3567	2115	48	6/41	8/160	44.06	3.55	74.3	1	0

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?bowling_pacespin=1;class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=2;orderby=bowling_average;qualmin1=30;qualval1=wickets;team=6;template=results;type=bowling

 

 

 

 

 

 

As we can see...an average of 30 and SR of 53  is quite good for an Indian seamer away from home.....and generally better than most of our current seamers

Edited November 30, 2016 by express bowling

[express bowling]

@Trichromatic

 

Have you included figures at home too  ? When did Jayant Yadav play away from home ?

 

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2016 by express bowling

[SUMO]

very much in the scheme of things, will play 100 tests ...shami bhuvi umesh ishant top 4 currently all age 26-28 

[mancalledsting]

He had three problems that have troubled his career:

 

1. Pitches ball to short, needs a fuller length. Not easy problem to overcome your natural length- ask morne morkel

 

2. Pitches the ball too wide- no excuse for this at all, doesn't give the captain control 

 

3. Lost pace from being a 140kph+ bowler to a 130kph bowler 

 

I have seen him address point 2,3 before and hope he continues. But if he wants to be back in kohlis test side, he needs to get rid of 1,2 and 3 all at the same time. I think he can do it, especially with the competition he'll face.

 

[express bowling]

1 minute ago, mancalledsting said:

He had three problems that have troubled his career:

 

1. Pitches ball to short, needs a fuller length. Not easy problem to overcome your natural length- ask morne morkel

 

2. Pitches the ball too wide- no excuse for this at all, doesn't give the captain control 

 

3. Lost pace from being a 140kph+ bowler to a 130kph bowler 

 

I have seen him address point 2,3 before and hope he continues. But if he wants to be back in kohlis test side, he needs to get rid of 1,2 and 3 all at the same time. I think he can do it, especially with the competition he'll face.

 

1. He is bowling a much fuller length now

 

2. Does it on occasions and needs to rectify this.

 

3. In the last 12  to 15 months......he has been bowling 135 k to 147 k in test matches consistently...with a good seam position and good bounce.

 

His problem is that....he is not a quick learner.

[mancalledsting]

He's still not full enough to maximise his wicket taking potential 

[G_B_]

I feel he should go for a county stint to see if he can reach the next level. 

 

Can honestly say prefer Bhuvi to Ishant in test matches. We have seen how important lower order batting is in world cricket atm and Ishant is a dud even there.

 

Would not mind seeing him given a go once India have settled the series. Just like Jayant brought out the best in Sir, I feel Ishant might just go all out and bowl 140k on a regular basis to earn his position back. This "leader of the pack" mentality IMO let to him not doing that.

 

If Ishant does bowl his heart out IMO he is a much more capable bowler in the test arena than Bhuvi who is more disciplined bowler. So if we cant have a trio of Shami Umesh and Ishant for tests with Bhuvi backing them up and have a separate ODI/T20 bowling line up then IMO injuries can certainly be kept to a minimum.

 

[express bowling]

My preferred bowling lineup outside Asia in test matches

 

1) Shami ....backup Shardul  ( can combine seam / swing bowling with good bouncers )

2) Ishant.....backup  Aaron  (  pushes batsmen to the backfoot with pace and bounce )

3) Bhuvi....backup  Umesh  ( both swing bowlers without good bouncers )

4) Ashwin....backup Jayant ( both off-spinners and good prospects with the bat )

5) Pandya ( all-rounder / 5th bowler )....backup  Binny ( ICF will kill me  on this )

 

The first options will obviously be better but there is need to cover for injury

Edited November 30, 2016 by express bowling

[The Realist]

1 hour ago, G_B_ said:

I feel he should go for a county stint to see if he can reach the next level. 

 

Can honestly say prefer Bhuvi to Ishant in test matches. We have seen how important lower order batting is in world cricket atm and Ishant is a dud even there.

 

Would not mind seeing him given a go once India have settled the series. Just like Jayant brought out the best in Sir, I feel Ishant might just go all out and bowl 140k on a regular basis to earn his position back. This "leader of the pack" mentality IMO let to him not doing that.

 

If Ishant does bowl his heart out IMO he is a much more capable bowler in the test arena than Bhuvi who is more disciplined bowler. So if we cant have a trio of Shami Umesh and Ishant for tests with Bhuvi backing them up and have a separate ODI/T20 bowling line up then IMO injuries can certainly be kept to a minimum.

 

Why would any County team want to waste an overseas spot on him? Mediocre medium pacers are dime a dozen in Eng and apart from his ridiculous hair he does not stand out from the crowd.

 

He has no other level - what you see is what you get as his career stats show. 8 years on from his debut he has barely progressed and he lacks the bowling intelligence to develop any further.

 

If Kohli wants to take the team to the next level then he needs to move past favourites from Dhoni's era and develop his own team with younger, hungrier and smarter players.  

[philcric]

Bad days for Cricket Acumen 101.

 

Ishant left behind by Shami, Umesh and Bhuvi as the preferred pacers.

Rohit injured and out batted by bowling all rounders and wicket keepers.

Duckett making ducks and getting dropped by England.

Blackwood in identity crisis, still figuring out if he is indeed Chase.

 

[kruiser]

we will win the Mumbai test in 4 days - spin fest, and the team for last test will be revamped. 

Bhuvi and Ishant will come in, Shami and Umesh will be rested. 

Amit Mishra will come in for Jayant.

Any batting reserves? they will get a chance as well.

[maniac]

Nope...still first name on the paper in an overseas test...even before Kohli,Ashwin etc.

[Vilander]

On 11/30/2016 at 4:44 AM, express bowling said:

My preferred bowling lineup outside Asia in test matches

 

1) Shami ....backup Shardul  ( can combine seam / swing bowling with good bouncers )

2) Ishant.....backup  Aaron  (  pushes batsmen to the backfoot with pace and bounce )

3) Bhuvi....backup  Umesh  ( both swing bowlers without good bouncers )

4) Ashwin....backup Jayant ( both off-spinners and good prospects with the bat )

5) Pandya ( all-rounder / 5th bowler )....backup  Binny ( ICF will kill me  on this )

 

The first options will obviously be better but there is need to cover for injury

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

He is not going to play a lot now, He should seriously consider a season for county. Virat changes the combinations a lot and shami has become the leader of the attack also his position is permanent. Thats leaves 2 spots in overseas for which Ishant has a lot of competition. Bhuvi, Umesh,Aaron, Shardul are already there. Ishant does provide the factor of height and bounce. But everyone does offer something different. 

With Rajpoot, Nathu, Sran, Aniket, Shardul coming up the fight for 2 other places will only get tough. If Ishant doesnt pull up his socks and does something to make his place permanent well he wont play for long now. After so many years there is no excuse to be avg and inconsistent. Time to become teams go to bowler rather than being good in patches .....

[Mosher]

Ishant is not going anywhere. He is the only tall fast bowler we have and he will be in the playing 11 when we play on bouncier pitches.

[Temujin Khaghan]

shami and umesh yadav are not exactly superfit like kapil dev... he will get an opp immediately if they are injured

because bhuvi is only in consideration in nz and eng

in aus and sa the third pace bowler is obviously ishanth

[Temujin Khaghan]

ishanth will complete 100 tests by the time he retires no doubt.

[express bowling]

10 hours ago, Temujin Khaghan said:

shami and umesh yadav are not exactly superfit like kapil dev... he will get an opp immediately if they are injured

 

Umesh is the fittest fast bowler I  have ever seen from India.

 

Kapil  Dev  was not super-fit....had major knee problems from 1986 onward....but kept on playing despite that without taking a long break to rectify the problem, even if it meant reducing a lot of pace and significant dip in wicket-taking ability. 

Before his knee injury --  Average 28.5 ,      SR 56 ,     Wickets per test  - 3.8   ( top class )

 

Career averages

	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
unfiltered	1978-1994	131	227	4623.2	1060	12867	434	9/83	11/146	29.64	2.78	63.9	23	2	Profile
filtered	1978-1985	73	121	2635.5	529	7978	280	9/83	11/146	28.49	3.02	56.4	19	2

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/30028.html?class=1;spanmax1=31+Dec+1985;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

 

After his knee injury ( rough date ) -- Average 31.7 ,      SR 77,     Wickets per test  - 2.6

 

Career averages

	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
unfiltered	1978-1994	131	227	4623.2	1060	12867	434	9/83	11/146	29.64	2.78	63.9	23	2	Profile
filtered	1986-1994	58	106	1987.3	531	4889	154	6/84	8/163	31.74	2.45	77.4	4	0

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/30028.html?class=1;spanmin1=01+jan+1986;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

 

 

 

 

Edited December 2, 2016 by express bowling

[rkt.india]

3 hours ago, Mosher said:

Ishant is not going anywhere. He is the only tall fast bowler we have and he will be in the playing 11 when we play on bouncier pitches.

I would also pick Aniket who is tall as well left armer for overseas tours.