Pakistan is producing the likes of Shaheen Shah and Naseem Shah whilst India is producing nothing

[rkt.india]

26 minutes ago, cric_fan said:

Saini looks class

Disappointed with Nagorkati

And what’s up with Mavi’s action- the guy is literally looking up at the sky at the point of delivery.

Wasn’t that Khaleel guy supposed to be special?

Where you looking at delivery stride isn't that important. It's the impulse stride where a bowler takes his target to bowl.

[Ankit_sharma03]

2 hours ago, SecondSlip said:

Why is it that India is not producing such bowlers? Where is it going wrong? Is the approach wrong, are the priorities wrong? Is it the pitches? Is it the quality of domestic cricket? Is it the coaching? Or is it something else?

 

Ur that guy who always says - aakhir uski kameez meri kameez se safed kaise 

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 hour ago, cric_fan said:

Role models

In India, role models are batsmen.

In Pakistan, it’s bowlers.

Having said that, India is producing good fast bowlers?

 

This saying is as outdated as pakistans batting in t20. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

43 minutes ago, cric_fan said:

Saini looks class

Disappointed with Nagorkati

And what’s up with Mavi’s action- the guy is literally looking up at the sky at the point of delivery.

Wasn’t that Khaleel guy supposed to be special?

 

Why wud be disappointed with a guy whose career has been hampered with 2 yrs of injury. 

He has come back and bowling at good pace, that enough. 

[MechEng]

India is not producing the likes of Naseem and Shaheen because they (India) are managing their bowlers well.

Edited October 27, 2020 by MechEng

[Ankit_sharma03]

The problem isnt with any of our youngsters it with people and expectation 

 

1st they kept crying as soon as mavi n nagarkotti are back they ll make it in national squad now they ll cry that they aint good enough. It isnt easy to comeback after long injury. 

 

Problem isnt with youngsters its people who want quick result, there is a process and every individual will have its own journey.

Some will start better some will pick late but cover the gap quickly, some will loose the way. 

[raki05]

16 hours ago, SecondSlip said:

Why is it that India is not producing such bowlers? Where is it going wrong? Is the approach wrong, are the priorities wrong? Is it the pitches? Is it the quality of domestic cricket? Is it the coaching? Or is it something else?

Were you sliping under the rock from last 5-6 years. What these bowlers have achieved , they hardly played 20 test together and here we have Ishant on verge of 400 wkts Shami  200 and Bumrah around 70 test wkts. BTW who was the last Pakistani bowlers took 200 test wkts.

[raki05]

15 hours ago, cric_fan said:

 

In 2017, Paxtan smashed your rockstars to smitherns in that final when it mattered the most. Most Indians still have not got over it

 

Actually no paxtani ll forget it as they hardly get any victory against India. Paxtani have been beaten 3 times after that they played with us . Till 2017 they were celebrating 2013 aane do series so looks like they get something to cheer about once in 3-4 years.

[express bowling]

18 hours ago, cric_fan said:

 

In 2017, Paxtan smashed your rockstars to smitherns in that final when it mattered the most. Most Indians still have not got over it

 

 

 

If I got a rupee for every time a Pakistani mentioned CT 17 final. !   

 

 

Edited October 28, 2020 by express bowling

[ShoonyaSifar]

What exactly are we complaining? Our fast bowling reserves have never been better. Unfortunately our coach and captain have no faith in younger seamers and would prefer to stick with Bhuvi, Chahar and Shardul. Else Saini and Prasidh Krishna if picked for the right formats are not bad choices at all. Need to be given some confidence and a proper run. 

 

BTW here are comparative stats from pace bowlers over the last two years

 

Tests: IND 13 tests. 160 wickets@19, Pak 14 Tests, 113 wickets@33

ODIs: IND 36 ODIs.152 wickets@32, Pak 28 ODIs, 112 wickets@37

T20Is: IND 30 T20Is. 101 wickets@25, Pak 19 T20Is, 50 wickets@34

 

Our pacers have been producing the results. The other set seems to be more hype and less performance, as has always been the case with Pakistani obsession for phasssst bowling. 

 

If pace alone is the criteria, in this IPL alone we have had Saini, Prasidh, Mavi, Nagerkotti, Tushar, Rajpoot  all hitting peak speeds of 145+ and Natarajan and Siraj around the 140 mph mark. 

[Unleashed]

16 hours ago, cric_fan said:

Saini looks class

Disappointed with Nagorkati

And what’s up with Mavi’s action- the guy is literally looking up at the sky at the point of delivery.

Wasn’t that Khaleel guy supposed to be special?

Literally no one has ever said Khaleel is special.

You are genuinely a moron.

[express bowling]

I feel the issue is a bit more complex than  " Bumrah / Shami are better, so we have no need to worry " or " We don't have anyone like Naseem or Shaheen ".

 

 

1)   Bumrah and Shami are very very good quality fast bowlers. Bumrah is amazing in all 3 formats and Shami a top quality wicket taker in tests and ODIs.

 

But Shami debuted in 2013 at an official age of 22 and Bumrah debuted in 2016 at age 22 too.

 

 

 

 

2)  Since Bumrah's debut in January 2016, we have not given meaningful chances to a single promising fast bowler within age 23 or 24.

 

Kohli and Shastri prefer experienced pacers, even in JAMODIs.  They introduce pacers only via T20Is, which is the worst format for new pacers ... while ODI is the best format for youngsters to debut in.

 

Even Shami, averaging 25, is usually dropped from ODIs by Kohli, especially in big matches.

 

Saini was ready for international cricket in January 2018. Bowling accurately at express pace. He was 25 then. But he made his ODI debut almost 2 years later, at age 27. And still waiting for his test debut. When will we play him in tests  ?  When he is 33 and bowling 7 kph slower  ??  Why was he not played in tests against Afghanistan,  Bangladesh or in NZ when Ishant was injured.

 

Siraj was running through sides in 4 day matches for our A team in 2018. But Shardul was preferred when a test spot opened up. And Siraj seems to have lost a bit of pace after sitting on the bench for 2+ years.  He was ready at age 24 but still waiting for a test debut at age 26 and a half. And he is not looking as good as he did in mid 2018. 

 

Prasidh is not even there as an additional pacer to Australia, while Shardul ( who lacks accuracy, height or extra pace ) is in the ODI squad.

 

 

 

 

3)  I don't buy the logic that we can't play / don't need to play young fast bowlers because Bumrah, Shami and Ishant are doing well.

 

a)  The 3rd pacer's slot have opened up when Ishant has got injured repeatedly.

 

b)  We could have tried young fast bowlers in bilateral ODIs. Have done it rarely.

 

c)  We could have tried young fast bowlers by rotation in tests, against weak sides at home. 

 

 

 

4)  Let's study the progress of our promising young quick bowlers since Bumrah's debut in January 2016

 

Saini ... Genuine fast bowler who is accurate too and gets seam movement both ways.

 

Yet to debut in tests, played just 5 ODIs despite being almost 28 years old.

 

Siraj ... Sharp bowler who is a genuine wicket taker in 4 day matches.

 

Yet to debut in tests. 

 

Prasidh ... Tall genuine fast bowler who gets steep bounce, seam movement and outswing.

 

Played just 9 FC matches in 5.5 years although he averages a magnificent 20. Has been removed from our A team due to a single bad List A match.

 

Nagarkoti  ... Genuine fast bowler who is short and very skiddy.

 

Took 2 years to recover from injury while rehabilitating at the NCA. Some say his injury was managed badly.

 

Mavi ... Genuine fast bowler with a big inswing and steep bounce.

 

2 injuries have hampered his progress. The only case where no one can be blamed.

 

Tyagi ....  Tall, bouncy, genuine fast bowler with an aggressive attitude and good yorkers. Moves the ball too.

 

Just starting off.  Good to see him going to Australia as an additional bowler. Needs to be developed this way.

 

Avesh ... Tall sharp pacer who bowled a very heavy ball.

 

Played for our A side very intermittently  despite good FC performances. Lost pace and bounce after that.

 

Khaleel  ... Tall, hit the deck, bouncy pacer who can be sharp.

 

His bowling action was tampered with and his bowling style changed from hit the deck to swing bowker, after he got his chance to play for Team India. He isn't the same bowler since.

 

 

5)  In most cases, Fast bowlers bowl quickly between age 23 and 31 or thereabouts. We need to use them at this stage. Debut them by 21 or 22, so that they have sufficient experience by age 25 ... And combine pace with experience for 7 years.




6)  Both Naseem and Shaheen are really good talents. Their real age is probably 21 or 22 ... They have the pace and they are gaining experience ... and by the time they are 24 or 25, they will be really good pacers.

There are a lot of things wrong with Pakistani cricket ... but giving chances to these 2 young fast bowlers is one of the few good things they have done in recent times.

 

 

 

In a nutshell  ----   We have very good fast bowlers in test matches in the form of Bumrah, Shami and Ishant. But let us not rest on our laurels. Let's play Shami in ODIs too ... And start giving chances to good quality genuine fast bowlers by age 22 or 23. The best format for genuine fast bowlers to debut is bilateral ODIs.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2020 by express bowling

[Lone Wolf]

I find Naseem not that impressive.  He is somewhat on Nagarkotti level. 

Shaheen is different story..  Dude is class a left armer too with good pace & most importantly taller than any of our guys. 

Tyagi seems to have the kind of Potential to match Shaheen..  But needs to be handled well. 

[BacktoCricaddict]

Am sorry, but I stopped reading at "whilst."  Whilst?  Art thou in 1720?

[Vilander]

 what a troll thread why is everyone so high bp guys..  

 

On pakistan.. where is golum and his athletic status post ?

[Gollum]

17 minutes ago, Vilander said:

 what a troll thread why is everyone so high bp guys..  

 

On pakistan.. where is golum and his athletic status post ?

Here you go....

  

On 10/19/2020 at 2:17 AM, Gollum said:

Richa Mishra and Maana Patel, 800m freestyle and 200m backstroke respectively. Both have personal bests better than Pak men's national record. That's right these 2 girls (Maana just a teenager) are faster swimmers than the best Pakistani men have to offer.

Physical prowess LOL

 

Richa Mishra

 

Maana Patel

 

Divya Deshmukh- When she was 11 years old she was a stronger chess player than the strongest male player in Pakistan's independent history. I repeat a 11 year old Indian schoolgirl would be Pak (senior) men's national chess champion, quite easily in fact. Right now her rating is such that in a simul against Pak men's national Olympiad team (1 vs 4 simultaneously) she would be favorite, maybe in a blindfolded simul your men have a prayer of not getting dragged. 

Smarter LOL

 

I don't want to bring our men teenage boys here because then it will be boring comparison. Our teenage girls are more than enough to handle the best of your country, in both mental (even pre-teen here ) and physical attributes. I am sure I can dig up more gems from other disciplines but will save you the humiliation. Sleep over this and introspect.

 

 

I am a keen follower of the competitive sport of wrestling. I see the 50-55 kg Haryanvi gals knock the stuffing out of your mard e momins, that is your reputation in the world of wrestling and as an extension combat sports. There is a reason you guys have won 0 Olympic medals in the last 6 Games  (largest country with this record), why most of the international female athletics/swimming records are better than Pakistani men's national records. Why you can't even compete at Asian Games or CWG level . 

 

Cheers.

Physically, mentally the best Pakistani men have to offer<<<teenage Indian girls.

[the don]

5 wickets for Shaheen. 

Bowled multilple deliveries in the 146-149 kph range. 

The kid is becoming a star in white ball cricket. 

[Suhaan]

22 minutes ago, the don said:

5 wickets for Shaheen. 

Bowled multilple deliveries in the 146-149 kph range. 

The kid is becoming a star in white ball cricket. 

paxtani sapeed guns doesn't matter

[Serpico]

Shaheen is just okay in test cricket so far but looking real good in ODIs. 45 wickets from 20 matches

[Vilander]

On 10/28/2020 at 7:41 AM, Lone Wolf said:

most importantly taller than any of our guys. 

Not sure he sure is taller than rest of pakistani but thats not much to write abt.