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Shikhar Dhawan, Manish Pandey: When will this torture end?


Lone Wolf

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7 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Don't need him T20Is I think.  He is a slow starter as well.  He can play in middle order though.  Our team needs fast ultra aggressive starts that Kishan provided to MI consistently. 

And Kishan will do that consistently on what basis? IPL :phehe: if you really want to drop Rohit, then open with Samson and play Kishan or SKY in MO.

 

Rohit and Rahul are fine as openers. Samson and Pandya are there to provide explosive batting strength so I will go with SKY as another middle order, hopefully Pandey or Iyer don't score some soft runs when Aussies rest Hazelwood or Starc.

Edited by Majestic
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4 minutes ago, Majestic said:

And Kishan will do that consistently on what basis? IPL :phehe: if you really want to drop Rohit, then open with Samson and play Kishan or SKY in MO.

 

Rohit and Rahul are fine as openers. Samson and Pandya are there to provide explosive batting strength so I will go with SKY as another middle order, hopefully Pandey or Iyer don't score some soft runs when Aussies rest Hazelwood or Starc.

At the moment both SKY & Ishan are needed.  I am just saying that Rahul is batting slow in the IPl & now here as well.  Left right combo is the real deal in T20 cricket. We are in desperate need of a dasher at the top.   Rohit can slot himself at 4.  One among SKY & Sanju..  I'll go with Sanju first.  Manish & Shikhar have to go no doubt about it. 

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2 hours ago, Adamant said:

Manish pandey:facepalm:in t20s

 

In odis atleast it can be understood if not condoned but its a crime to have someone like him in t20s. 

Utter crap selection. 

 

 

Any normal captain would have sent Pandya in at 85/3 after 11 overs after Samson got out. Our maharathi sent in Pandey who ate a lot of balls like pani puri and got out and lowered our scoring rate. Added pressure resulted in KLR's and Pandya's dismissal. Him getting selected for the t20's is a bigger mistake. Seems our selectors don't have any brain either.

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T20Is are for younger generation whose imaginations are endless and quick in their thinking. We need an overhaul in the selection process and the way we think just like England did after their 2015 WC exit. The only time we won the t20 wc was in 2007 when the oldest player was in their late 20s. Maybe we can retain Rohit and Kohli. Dhawan had his time but is now past his prime. He got out to a nothing ball. Sure it swung but Dhawan didnt cover the line. His fielding lapses and most importantly his catching has gone down.

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Is Ishan international caliber player as batsman alone. I don't think. Rahul being keeper will block all other keeper. The only guy who has not gotten his deserved chance is SKY. He should get his chances in place of Pandya. I don't see any outstand hitting ability in most youngsters. Dhawan should not have played T20s but he was very good in IPL so he forced selectors to pick him.

 

They have move on from Dhawan in all formats.

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Even i do not think he may not be top 4-5 talents in India but one thing we need to admit based on his game in this year's IPL  is that Ishaan is the one person who has worked on his weakness in the last year or so and has improved.  Others may have more talent but maximizing it and showing results is what will matter. 

His plus point earlier was against Spin only.

Observation only based game for short format. Seems to have followed a bit of QDK .

 -Plays Pace better than before including short stuff - now plays more confidently . Observe how he handled Stanlake in IND A game some 18 months back and how he plays now. 

- Has  developed an attacking option vs short bowling and scores runs .

- Has developed good shots on off side against Pace .

- Has more control and maintains balance while playing big shots . Pant & Ishaan had same problem loosing shape , while Ishaan seem to have rectified it  but pant still stuck where he was .  

 

Re: No outstanding  hitting ability in most youngsters -  

Not 100% sure about this observation .  Pant , Shaw , Ishaan, Padikkal  - they have the raw ability to play attacking shots . Whats lacking is control and maturity in shot selection.

A player with ability to play attacking shots both vs pace & spin - should be the basis of selection for short formats,  Then they should be worked  upon to make them  better at shot selection to bring consistency.  For some this may require cutting down over attacking play - Like Shaw , Pant & Samson. & For some it may require adding few more attacking shots to the armory and some inventive shots to foil opposition team plans.

 

The objective should be to make these youngsters to be able to score a 25 -30  ave innings at 130- 140 strike rate with a 65-70%  success rate in a T20  and play knocks with 100-120 strike rate with 35-40 ave in 50 overs  ASAP.  

Any guy who can reach this threshold will be playing for India with success and then can improve it further .

 

The problem currently is no one is given more than 2 -3 games matches , most of them are given chance in MO , Lower MO with hardly any deliveries left  and then termed failures .

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44 minutes ago, prudent_kreeda said:

Even i do not think he may not be top 4-5 talents in India but one thing we need to admit based on his game in this year's IPL  is that Ishaan is the one person who has worked on his weakness in the last year or so and has improved.  Others may have more talent but maximizing it and showing results is what will matter. 

His plus point earlier was against Spin only.

Observation only based game for short format. Seems to have followed a bit of QDK .

 -Plays Pace better than before including short stuff - now plays more confidently . Observe how he handled Stanlake in IND A game some 18 months back and how he plays now. 

- Has  developed an attacking option vs short bowling and scores runs .

- Has developed good shots on off side against Pace .

- Has more control and maintains balance while playing big shots . Pant & Ishaan had same problem loosing shape , while Ishaan seem to have rectified it  but pant still stuck where he was .  

 

Re: No outstanding  hitting ability in most youngsters -  

Not 100% sure about this observation .  Pant , Shaw , Ishaan, Padikkal  - they have the raw ability to play attacking shots . Whats lacking is control and maturity in shot selection.

A player with ability to play attacking shots both vs pace & spin - should be the basis of selection for short formats,  Then they should be worked  upon to make them  better at shot selection to bring consistency.  For some this may require cutting down over attacking play - Like Shaw , Pant & Samson. & For some it may require adding few more attacking shots to the armory and some inventive shots to foil opposition team plans.

 

The objective should be to make these youngsters to be able to score a 25 -30  ave innings at 130- 140 strike rate with a 65-70%  success rate in a T20  and play knocks with 100-120 strike rate with 35-40 ave in 50 overs  ASAP.  

Any guy who can reach this threshold will be playing for India with success and then can improve it further .

 

The problem currently is no one is given more than 2 -3 games matches , most of them are given chance in MO , Lower MO with hardly any deliveries left  and then termed failures .

Agree completely..  Most important thing when he was smashing Rabada Nortje level of bowlers his balance was great with a nice base something that Pant still hasn't improved on & hence he mistimes most of his strokes as he loses balance.  His batswing was always someone like Qdk. 

His slog sweeps are best I have seen among Indian batsman & he destroys spin.  His off side game has also evolved.  His square cut is also great something that every left hander has to master. 

He is ready to debut in T20Is I think. 

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13 hours ago, putrevus said:

Is Ishan international caliber player as batsman alone. I don't think. Rahul being keeper will block all other keeper. The only guy who has not gotten his deserved chance is SKY. He should get his chances in place of Pandya. I don't see any outstand hitting ability in most youngsters. Dhawan should not have played T20s but he was very good in IPL so he forced selectors to pick him.

 

They have move on from Dhawan in all formats.

Dhawan has a great IPL so pick him. Ishan Kishan, who did better, is not even of international calibre.

 

No youngsters with outstanding hitting ability? Hitting guys like Cummins, Rabada, Archer, Nortje for monstrous 6s is no hitting ability. Do chamchagiri of Kohli  land you'll get called a great hitter.

 

Depth Kohli PR have to stoop to defend idiotic decisions under Kohli 

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