Why has India performed better without Hardik in the last 5-6 years?

[zen]

4 minutes ago, maniac said:

Let me throw @zen a bone here. He was part of the Asia cup winning team in 2016 in the T20 format but my point still stands.

 

I would not count it. SDP has to do it as a key player (not a youngster or someone past his prime with others as mainstays). I would welcome your criticism of him if he does not bring Ind much value in future. 

 

It is good that you started this thread as it might bring him some more luck!

 

 

Edited November 2, 2021 by zen

[maniac]

Just now, zen said:

I would not count it.

 

 

Tough luck then

[zen]

3 minutes ago, maniac said:

Tough luck then

 

Everytime I see such threads on SDP including during IPL, it is usually a good sign for SDP. 

 

There have been various performance tracker threads where the OP eventually ran out of steam. 

[maniac]

3 minutes ago, zen said:

 

 

 

There have been various performance tracker threads where the OP eventually ran out of steam. 

I don’t hate Pandya personally. I have many times acknowledged his good attributes. If he turns it around good for Indian team but you still haven’t answered why India performs relatively better when he isn’t around?

[zen]

Just now, maniac said:

I don’t hate Pandya personally. I have many times acknowledged his good attributes. If he turns it around good for Indian team but you still haven’t answered why India performs relatively better when he isn’t around?

 

I would not count Nidhas as some kind of achievement  ... 2012-2021 is a failed decade for India at the WCs 

 

Like S&P 500, I have a group of posters here as index that when they post against someone, the reverse is likely to happen. Always bet against those sentiments and you will be more right than wrong. 

 

For e.g., drop Pujara - hero in Aus in two series and Eng. There was a thread I started on Rahane where many though he would outperform Pujara, he did not - Link

 

Same thing with SDP. The same group now writing against SDP gives me more faith in some good time for him

 

 

 

 

[Majestic]

Pandya was excellent in 2019 World Cup but it is after the injury he had, he is looking like a pretty overrated cricketer.

 

I also feel that his game relies mostly on power hitting. If he has to make a place for himself as a specialist batsman or a batsman who bowls part time then he will have to learn to play knocks like Yuvraj Singh did.

[maniac]

4 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Pandya was excellent in 2019 World Cup

yes he was because he did his job as the 5th bowler admirably well and contributed on a couple of occasions with the bat which was a bonus but the major aspect being a full time 5th bowler who gave us 10 overs. That is what balance is. When he can’t he is useless. So simple if he is 100% fit he plays or else doesn’t. Even Kapil Dev who was a million times the cricketer Pandya ever was didnt guarantee a slot if he couldn’t bowl and he was the 2nd or 3rd best bat in the side for most of his career.
 

 

[zen]

1 hour ago, maniac said:

Even Kapil Dev who was a million times the cricketer Pandya ever was didnt guarantee a slot if he couldn’t bowl and he was the 2nd or 3rd best bat in the side for most of his career.

Buddy, you are writing based on perception. SDP, maybe an AR, but he is now playing as a lower middle order batsman tasked to take more risks with the bat for India. 
 

S Smith started out as a leg spinner to become the main batsman so there is no such thing that If SDP is an AR, he should play only as an AR.

 

If your issue is on playing combination, there are relics batsmen that can be dropped. 
 

What fanboys of relics want is for relics to do tuk tuk even when relatively easier bowlers are bowling. And guys like SDP to do all the hard work to compensate for slow batsmen against death bowling specialist without even getting their eye in (which these Tuk Tuk guys would fail at even more badly).  Hoping that someone else will come in magically to help the Tuk Tuk batsmen and bail Ind out when they fail in high pressure game.
 

What needs to happen is to remove all relics from the squad  

 

World tournaments are not about beating a few weak teams in groups and losing to inform teams or teams that improved over the course of the tournament in knockouts.  There is only one winner. You do not win by entering the SF or F. 

PS as for Kapil, in 1988 he scored a 50 against WI and then failed to score another one till he retired in 1994, playing most of those years on reputation. In 1983 WC, he only had one inning of note. Failed in 87 esp. in SF, and did some hitting in 1992 WC (could have been promoted to give him more responsibility with the bat). Also failed in 1989 Nehru Cup. Kapil career is mostly about the 5 years from 81-82 to 86-87.

 

Edited November 2, 2021 by zen

[maniac]

13 minutes ago, zen said:

PS as for Kapil, in 1988 he scored a 50 against WI and then failed to score another one till he retired in 1994, playing most of those years on reputation. In 1983 WC, he only had one inning of note. Failed in 87 esp. in SF, and did some hitting in 1992 WC (could have been promoted to give him more responsibility with the bat). Also failed in 1989 Nehru Cup. Kapil career is mostly about the 5 years from 81-82 to  86-87.

 

but till 1992-93 he was still the best bowler in the side. In fact safe to say the best strike bowler till about 1992. Overstayed for 2 years too many like a lot of Indian legends except Gavaskar but that is a different  topic.

[Rantzz]

That’s what you call a liability

 

a company is better once it gets rid of its liabilities 

[zen]

Just now, maniac said:

but till 1992-93 he was still the best bowler in the side. In fact safe to say the best strike bowler till about 1992. Overstayed for 2 years too many like a lot of Indian legends except Gavaskar but that is a different  topic.

Can’t say that. In 1992, he had a rare good series in Aus. There were guys like Srinath, who could have played for Ind earlier. Prabhakar was a key bowler. 
 

In 1986, he failed to pick up even one wkt versus Aus at home. 

[Jay]

Injuries affected his progress. Not sure if he will eve get back to the level he showed in 2019. 

Maybe just focus on one aspect. Either bat or bowl.

[Try_Ball]

How a player was at one point of a time should have no bearing on the present.

Looking at any professional field not necessary professional sports,  If you were a competent surgeon or a judge at one time but at present your skills have deteriorated and you do not have the same capacity to perform then the position shouldn't be given to you at present unless you are able to prove yourself and show your worth. 

In all the other sports - English Premier league / NFL/NBA/NHL  - the biggest superstars - even guys who are on a $10 million contract for a year are benched after 4-5 poor games - doesn't matter how big their contract is or how many goals or points you scored in the previous games ? That's the bottom line.   You are as good as how you perform on the field - There are other hungry and deserving guys out there who are ready to give in their 110 % out there and that's what most coaches and TM want - guys who are hungry and perform and prove themselves - not overfed and smug idiots like Pandya who are raking MI money and Indian cricket team money as a govt job.

You are getting paid millions to do a job - just like a bus driver / a nurse / a janitor / office worker whosoever - you get paid to do your job and do it well - Show up and do it - if you cannot - step aside and let someone else do it.  You cannot continue to leech - If it was so easy to perform at the highest level and not get dropped out - everyone would do it and you wouldn't get paid millions to do it.  

Edited November 3, 2021 by Try_Ball

[Vijy]

thread is obviously a bit tongue-in-cheek since no one player, bad or good, would generally have a massive influence on tourneys over many years (exceptions are rarely possible)

[Jay]

39 minutes ago, Try_Ball said:

How a player was at one point of a time should have no bearing on the present.

Looking at any professional field not necessary professional sports,  If you were a competent surgeon or a judge at one time but at present your skills have deteriorated and you do not have the same capacity to perform then the position shouldn't be given to you at present unless you are able to prove yourself and show your worth. 

In all the other sports - English Premier league / NFL/NBA/NHL  - the biggest superstars - even guys who are on a $10 million contract for a year are benched after 4-5 poor games - doesn't matter how big their contract is or how many goals or points you scared in the previous games ? That's the bottom line.   You are as good as how you perform on the field - There are other hungry and deserving guys out there who are ready to give in their 110 % out there and that's what most coaches and TM want - guys who are hungry and perform and prove themselves - not overfed and smug idiots like Pandya who are raking MI money and Indian cricket team money as a govt job.

You are getting paid millions to do a job - just like a bus driver / a nurse / a janitor / office worker whosoever - you get paid to do your job and do it well - Show up and do it - if you cannot - step aside and let someone else do it.  You cannot continue to leech - If it was so easy to perform at the highest level and not get dropped out - everyone would do it and you wouldn't get paid millions to do it.  

Excellent post. But we have seniority culture. It's pathetic. We need to abolish that mindset. 

[Texy]

7 hours ago, Try_Ball said:

Hardik Pandya and his little minion Krunal Pandya have been one of the worst leeches for Indian Cricket....

The Pandya brother have literally made me miss Irfan and Yusuf pathan who weren't stellar themselves.

What boggles my mind even more is the continued obsession and persistence with Hardik despite the fact that the guy isn't bowling / isn't consistent with the bat / is injured and not fully fit - Even bigwigs like Sachin/ Ganguly/ Yuvraj were not given such a long leash and what were expected to perform than be a passenger in the team -  This makes me wonder where Indian cricket is going in the right direction?   Who is behind this blind backing for certain players ? Kohli or the TM ?  No team should be so dependent on one player to this extent of how dependent India has been on Pandya and wouldn't let go like some sort of psychotic obsession.

I don't mine putting players like Abdul Samad / Shardul Thakur/ V Iyer etc or whosoever is the next prospect but give the youngsters a chance  -  We are still searching for the next Yuvraj Singh/ Irfan Pathan -  Hardik isn't the answer -  Indian team needs to move on 

TBF pathan brothers were lot more talented..... 

[cricketfan28]

Dhoniconda's failure.

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, Try_Ball said:

How a player was at one point of a time should have no bearing on the present.

Looking at any professional field not necessary professional sports,  If you were a competent surgeon or a judge at one time but at present your skills have deteriorated and you do not have the same capacity to perform then the position shouldn't be given to you at present unless you are able to prove yourself and show your worth. 

In all the other sports - English Premier league / NFL/NBA/NHL  - the biggest superstars - even guys who are on a $10 million contract for a year are benched after 4-5 poor games - doesn't matter how big their contract is or how many goals or points you scored in the previous games ? That's the bottom line.   You are as good as how you perform on the field - There are other hungry and deserving guys out there who are ready to give in their 110 % out there and that's what most coaches and TM want - guys who are hungry and perform and prove themselves - not overfed and smug idiots like Pandya who are raking MI money and Indian cricket team money as a govt job.

You are getting paid millions to do a job - just like a bus driver / a nurse / a janitor / office worker whosoever - you get paid to do your job and do it well - Show up and do it - if you cannot - step aside and let someone else do it.  You cannot continue to leech - If it was so easy to perform at the highest level and not get dropped out - everyone would do it and you wouldn't get paid millions to do it.  

Proven performers aren't discarded in any area this soon. Just this year, he played well in ODI series in Australia with the bat. Shane Watson played for years just as a batsman. Was a top scorer in that series for us.

Edited November 3, 2021 by rkt.india

[Try_Ball]

11 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Proven performers aren't discarded in any area this soon. Just this year, he played well in ODI series in Australia with the bat. Shane Watson played for years just as a batsman. 

 

Incorrect.

If you follow NHL/NBA - you'd know better.  

In playoffs for example -  if you are so utter **** like Pandya has been then you will be benched within 2-3 bad games , I am not even talking about 2 or 3 series but 2 or 3 game and you get a night or two off.

If your goalie is not 100 % fit , even if he's 90  % fit - you're out - The next guy will take your place and you come back when you're ready.

For 2 years Pandya has been carrying injuries and not even fulfilling his role as an "all rounder" -  its a shame that someone cannot complete his role is being carried as a legacy pick

 

Let alone sports , If you are a surgeon - but your vision or hand eye co-ordination is affected - you wouldn't be doing surgeries.

If you are an air traffic controller - you need to have an assessment quite often

I'm sure in many other fields as well, if you aren't meeting your targets- you'd be expected to sit out 

 

Edited November 3, 2021 by Try_Ball

[Gambit]

Never has so much been written and debated about a player who has done so little. He is a sasta Robin Singh.