Team Ind is not weak, ... (T20WC22)

[zen]

It is simply stale! 

 

Filled with players whom we have seen lose world cups after world cups since 2012. Many of its players their international debut in the 2007 (1st T20 WC) - 2014 (5th T20 WC, 1st half of 2010s) period:

 

• DK (2004)
• Rohit (2007)
• Kohli (2009)
• Jadeja (2009) - out due to injury 
• Ashwin (2010)
• Bhuvi (2012) 
• Shami (2013) 
• KL (2014) 

 

Many of these guys have played in almost all the T20 WCs.  What is different this time? 

 

 

 

[Vk1]

surprising how bcci never thought of fixed age for retirement.. these players would happily play till 40, attend their retirement function and take gifts

[ThirtyD.]

29 minutes ago, Vk1 said:

surprising how bcci never thought of fixed age for retirement.. these players would happily play till 40, attend their retirement function and take gifts

 

I am not sure if they can legally define a number to retire; however, they can certainly grow a pair and have a clear transition plan to phase out aging players.

[zen]

In a way reminds me of the "great" Pak team of 2003:

 

1. Saeed Anwar (debut 1989)
2. Taufeeq Umar
3. Saleem Elahi (debut 1995)
4. Younis Khan
5. Yousuf Youhana
6. Inzamam-ul-Haq (vice-captain) (debut 1992) 
7. Shahid Afridi
8. Abdul Razzaq
9. Azhar Mahmood
10. Wasim Akram (debut 1984)
11. Rashid Latif (wicketkeeper) (debut 1992) 
12. Waqar Younis (captain) (debut 1989)
13. Mohammad Sami
14. Shoaib Akhtar
15. Saqlain Mushtaq (debut 1995)

 

 

Selectors were probably hoping that the core group of oldies will recreate 1992 in 2003. 

 

Edited October 14, 2022 by zen

[Adamant]

With this logic Sachin Tendulkar should have been left out of 2011 world cup bcoz no one has seen as many losses in world cup as he has. 

 

Never expect anything logical from the OP. 

 

The seniors still performed in the game vs pak in asia cup our ipl middle order simply succumbed to pressure. 

 

[nevada]

15 hours ago, zen said:

In a way reminds me of the "great" Pak team of 2003:

 

1. Saeed Anwar (debut 1989)
2. Taufeeq Umar
3. Saleem Elahi (debut 1995)
4. Younis Khan
5. Yousuf Youhana
6. Inzamam-ul-Haq (vice-captain) (debut 1992) 
7. Shahid Afridi
8. Abdul Razzaq
9. Azhar Mahmood
10. Wasim Akram (debut 1984)
11. Rashid Latif (wicketkeeper) (debut 1992) 
12. Waqar Younis (captain) (debut 1989)
13. Mohammad Sami
14. Shoaib Akhtar
15. Saqlain Mushtaq (debut 1995)

 

 

Selectors were probably hoping that the core group of oldies will recreate 1992 in 2003. 

 

The 2007 WC is probably the only instance where an ageing team won the tournament. Gilly, Hayden and Mcgrath were 36-37. Ponting himself was 33. The 92 Pak team had a near 40 year old Imran Khan and 35 year old Javed Miandad but the rest of the team was young. 

[zen]

2 hours ago, nevada said:

The 2007 WC is probably the only instance where an ageing team won the tournament. Gilly, Hayden and Mcgrath were 36-37. Ponting himself was 33. The 92 Pak team had a near 40 year old Imran Khan and 35 year old Javed Miandad but the rest of the team was young. 

OZ team had a lot of winners too from 1999 & 2003. Also ODIs can be more accommodating.  
 

Yeah, Pak could fit a couple of oldies as guys like Inzi picked up. But those were different times. In 1996, Miandad did not work. 
 

Here we have a stale side that has many players who have not won in this format for a long time!  

 

 

 

[sandeep]

classic example of starting with a theory and retro-force-fitting 'facts'....

[zen]

21 minutes ago, sandeep said:

classic example of starting with a theory and retro-force-fitting 'facts'....

Read the OP, it is not too complicated 

 

(It is a simple thread) 

[Serpico]

37 minutes ago, sandeep said:

classic example of starting with a theory and retro-force-fitting 'facts'....

Funny thing is he doesn't even have a new theory . He literally got one theory and he makes the same thread every week with slightly different set of cherry picked stats.

 

This is the Champion team from last year

 

Warner (2009)

Finch(2011)

Marsh(2011)

Maxwell(2010)

Smith(2012)

Wade (2010)

Starc(2011)

Cummins(2011)

Hazelwood (2013)

 

On the top of this 'staleness', none of these players won any t20 wc before. Yet they won the title anyway.

 

The two biggest MVPs are Marsh and Wade who had the most mediocre T20I stats one can imagine. This is why internet stat merchants need to relax and learn to enjoy the actual game, not just the scorecards and statsguru filters

 

 

[zen]

19 minutes ago, Serpico said:

Funny thing is he doesn't even have a new theory . He literally got one theory and he makes the same thread every week with slightly different set of cherry picked stats.

 

This is the Champion team from last year

 

Warner (2009)

Finch(2011)

Marsh(2011)

Maxwell(2010)

Smith(2012)

Wade (2010)

Starc(2011)

Cummins(2011)

Hazelwood (2013)

 

On the top of this 'staleness', none of these players won any t20 wc before. Yet they won the title anyway.

 

The two biggest MVPs are Marsh and Wade who had the most mediocre T20I stats one can imagine. This is why internet stat merchants need to relax and learn to enjoy the actual game, not just the scorecards and statsguru filters

 

 

 

Too many assumptions including dragging in outliers and equating "staleness" to be universally applicable ... I actually backed Aus to win last year, and this year are among my favorites. 

 

Team India is not Team Australia (not many teams are). 

 

Anyways, carry on ... 

[Majestic]

Bhuvi

Shami

Arshdeep

Chahal

Axar/Ashwin

 

V/s

 

Bumrah

Shami

Shardul

VC

Jadeja

 

Which was a more stale bowling attack of the two?

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, Majestic said:

Bhuvi

Shami

Arshdeep

Chahal

Axar/Ashwin

 

It cant be Ashwin vs Axar , it will always be chahal vs Ashwin 

 

9 hours ago, Majestic said:

V/s

 

Bumrah

Shami

Shardul

VC

Jadeja

 

Which was a more stale bowling attack of the two?

 

Vc,??  Varun. C ??

 

[Majestic]

45 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

It cant be Ashwin vs Axar , it will always be chahal vs Ashwin 

 

 

Vc,??  Varun. C ??

 

Preferably yes but they will select Chahal in all games as it stands now. He is their first spinner.

 

Yes

 

 

[AKane]

Australia is not as bad as India but they are not as ruthless as in the past when it comes to senior selections.

 

Consider   Finch and Maxwell

 

Maxwell is a shadow of his former self.... he averages around 15 in T20I this last year.  Finch averages around 23 in last year vs 33 overall.

Edited October 15, 2022 by AKane

[zen]

Some folks thought these stale players would win the T20WC in Aus  

[zen]

Are some of these guys expected to announce their retirement from T20i? 

 

Anyways, selectors have to make the tough call to see that India does not continue to get punished because of these has beens

[Nikhil_cric]

Issue is selection. Players are not selected for specific roles - spin hitters, pace hitters etc. There is a specific idea in mind as to who are classy players (sometimes in other formats) and then they try to fit them in the T20 side. Classic example - Ashwin.

 

Selection criteria is worse than all of ENG, PAK, NZ, SL etc. 

 

It's a tough call in India to drop household names like Kohli, Ashwin etc . You'll have fans, PR agencies , media houses scream foul and a few ex players as well. 

 

I remember England dropping Plunkett after their last WC campaign.  Won't happen here. And I don't see that changing anytime soon