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Opposition, libtards opposing Citizenship Amendment Bill

Gollum

By Gollum
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Dil Dil India Rising Star

Dil Dil India

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, Gollum said:

@Dil Dil India, ignored your long post cos I thought you were having a bad day. Since you quoted me I'll try and refute your points. Will start of by saying that today you are on the same page as Rana Ayyub, Imran Khan, Arfa Khanum, Owaisi, Kavita Krishnan, Mehbooba Mufti, Badruddin Ajmal, Tukde Tukde Gang etc and a person is known by the company he/she keeps. We all make mistakes, to err is human...knowing your posting history I don't think you belong to that company of illustrious names, so hope to change your views. 

I couldn't care less about any of those names. I care about the idea of India. There are plenty of scumbags who support every thing this government does and plenty who go against everything this government does - which is precisely the problem. We have developed a sheep mentality where we are simply opposing and supporting something not on merit but on the basis of who is against/supporting it. 

22 minutes ago, Gollum said:

They will send scumbags irrespective of what we do, their basic nature. Doesn't matter if RS passes CAB or not as far as they are concerned.

Sorry Gollum, you are smarter than that. What kind of argument is that? Of course they will send scumbags, but why make it easier for them? What next, they will send terrorists anyway, so should we just remove our forces from our borders?

22 minutes ago, Gollum said:

 

Cut-off date for citizenship is 31 Dec, 2014. If some Pakeee Hindu wants citizenship now he will need to go through the legal route. Read the salient features of the bill. 

I have. We should not take these guys - they are not Indians, let these leeches stay in their own countries.

22 minutes ago, Gollum said:

 

Where did the comparison between them (Pak Hindus) and Indian Muslims come from? CAB has nothing to do with the status of Indian Muslims, don't let propaganda outlets like 'The Wire' mislead you. 

We can't run our country based on what Pakistan thinks/does, if that is the case we might as well open our borders, destroy our Parliament building, disband the armed forces and let Islamabad/Rawalpindi rule. It is a coward's way out, toeing the enemy line. If they create problem in NE, hit them back in Sindh and Balochistan, make costs of their misadventures unbearable. 

I don't care about the Wire. I could quote you different sources. The fact is, our intelligence sees it as a threat. Your second paragraph has nothing to do with what I posted - I am saying they are intent on causing trouble in Punjab/N.E etc and we are making it easier for them. In fact we are doing what PAKISTAN WANTS!

22 minutes ago, Gollum said:

 

If the grouse is excessive load on NE, that can be discussed but which party is doing that? What stops them? I am all for those immigrants being distributed all across India. But lemme tell you as someone from Bengal, my state and NE are largely responsible for the illegal migrant influx. Our politicians allowed them to enter unchecked for votebank purposes, our corrupt state people eased their entry and gave them certificates, cover, jobs, residence, everything. From there they went to Delhi, Jammu, Bengaluru, Hyderabad, Kannur....primary fault lies with us. Anyway LINK , though I do hope NE grievances are addressed in the form of amendments. 

Again, no-one is supporting illegal immigrants. Kick them out - most of them are trouble makers and have no gratitude. The idea that you need to counter illegal immigration with more illegal immigration is absurd.

22 minutes ago, Gollum said:

I don't get the 'spies and terrorists' part. Do you seriously believe our agencies are that inept? Why not show some confidence in their abilities to sniff out the troublemakers? 

The agencies themselves have raised concerns - or does that not count? Why the hell are we making their job harder? 

22 minutes ago, Gollum said:

We can focus on economy, gender violence and ideology, all at the same time. India is a confused nation, as long as it remains that way no economic miracle will help us realize our potential.

The confusion comes because of not being able to focus on the core issues. 

22 minutes ago, Gollum said:

 

Why is CAB useless? Those illegals were staying here one week back, they will stay here next month...where is the question of resources? Some will get citizenship, others will be off to detention camps, highly doubt BD/Pak/Afg will allow them back if we are being realistic. Huge section of Muslims agitated for partition, caused mayhem, went to Pakistan....if some of them (descendants) want to come back, sorry doors closed, their own doing. Hindus, Sikhs and Christians never agitated for any independent country, some were left behind because of geographical/economic reasons. 

Send all of them back. Why the hell should we have scumbags who will still be loyal to Pakistan here? Who takes the guarantee for the loyalty of Pak Hindus, Sikhs and whoever? Who takes guarantee that there won't spy for their masters in Pakistan/BD/Afg?

22 minutes ago, Gollum said:

 

Do you know Sikhs and Hindus who migrated in 1950-51 are yet to receive citizenship. Don't you find it unfair? Correction of this wrong is 'useless nonsense'? No empathy for those who took a bit more time to make that arduous journey? 

What about the Indian army officer who the NRC screwed over? Or do people like him not count? Why limit it to Christians, Sikhs and Hindus then?

22 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Does China bother about its global image? Russia? USA? Only the weak seek validation from others. We must do whatever is best for us, doesn't matter how many people it rubs the wrong way. 

Unfortunately, world diplomacy doesn't work that way. USA, Russia and China are extremely powerful countries - we are nowhere close as yet. What is best for us is subjective. For me, taking in more termites just because we happen to share our faith with them, all while they are in all likelihood supporting the country of their birth, is ridiculous.

22 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Good for you.... same coin as in UPA's spinelessness post weekly terror attacks, bend-over before Pakistan, begging USA to stop the mean bully Pakistan, 26/11 RSS ki saazish, Batla encounter fake etc. Vote for them next time, apart from all this maybe we will see a new WR of 1st trillion dollar corruption scam. 370 can be brought back, Indian army can be told to go back to the days of showing the other cheek, 10000 other reasons that made UPA era so great !!!

Agree that we had a spineless government then and that is why India voted overwhelmingly in favour of the current party. Not for the economy to plumb depths, not for ministers to say cow urine cures cancer, not for ministers to say automobile sales are not down because traffic jams...etc etc. 

22 minutes ago, Gollum said:

You got to be more specific, at least I like Yam. 

Careful, you don't want to go down that route because then questions will be asked about pre-1947 events and how forefathers of today's Indian Muslims voted. Anyway CAB isn't about Indian Muslims, so I will leave it at that. 

We can go down pre-1947 and talk about Savarkar's mercy petitions to the British or go even further back. 

 

The problem is the libtards and extreme right feed off each other. Both sides lack the moral turpitude to speak up for what's right in all cases. I agree with removing Article 370; I would probably welcome a UCC as well, but this? No chance in hell. Kick all of these leeches and termites out.

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Gollum Grand Master

Gollum

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Dil Dil India said:

I couldn't care less about any of those names. I care about the idea of India.

What is your Idea of India?

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Sorry Gollum, you are smarter than that. What kind of argument is that? Of course they will send scumbags, but why make it easier for them? What next, they will send terrorists anyway, so should we just remove our forces from our borders?

Where is the equivalence man? We have to do everything to stop their nefarious designs so your last question is invalid. They might as well send more scumbags but how was the situation a month before all this? Illegals post 2015 won't get citizenship no matter what. If someone wants to enter India now, better do so legally or find the shortest route to nearest detention centre. 

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I have. We should not take these guys - they are not Indians, let these leeches stay in their own countries.

Your opinion, I don't consider them leeches. Someone who came to India in Jan 1951 after trains of dead bodies stopped crossing over...not a leech. Where else could Sikhs from Afg go after Taliban came to power? My idea of India is a dharmic based one, India is the home of ALL dharmic faiths. 

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I don't care about the Wire. I could quote you different sources. The fact is, our intelligence sees it as a threat. Your second paragraph has nothing to do with what I posted - I am saying they are intent on causing trouble in Punjab/N.E etc and we are making it easier for them. In fact we are doing what PAKISTAN WANTS!

I trust our intelligence and uniformed forces. They have proved their mettle in Kashmir, NE will be easy peasy. Waise I also trust NE brethren to reject Pak's interference, I trust my countrymen to do the right thing. Also post-Balakot our Pak policy has drastically changed, any terror attack from their end will be ruthlessly punished. This policy will stay even if BJP loses power, precedent has been set, bare minimum expectation....

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Again, no-one is supporting illegal immigrants. Kick them out - most of them are trouble makers and have no gratitude. The idea that you need to counter illegal immigration with more illegal immigration is absurd.

Hindu migrants from East Bengal are very grateful and patriotic. 

How will there be more illegal immigration? Unless detention camps provide better standard of living than BD.

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Send all of them back. Why the hell should we have scumbags who will still be loyal to Pakistan here? Who takes the guarantee for the loyalty of Pak Hindus, Sikhs and whoever? Who takes guarantee that there won't spy for their masters in Pakistan/BD/Afg?

Once the link has been cut off and they get our citizenship why will they risk everything? 

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What about the Indian army officer who the NRC screwed over? Or do people like him not count? Why limit it to Christians, Sikhs and Hindus then?

That was unfortunate, shouldn't have happened. But more to do with our lethargic way of functioning. 

Limit to these communities because partition was done for Muslims by Muslims. Why do Pak/BD Muslims want to come back illegally? If they wish GOI will handle it on a case by case basis. 

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Unfortunately, world diplomacy doesn't work that way. USA, Russia and China are extremely powerful countries - we are nowhere close as yet. 

Turkey, Qatar, Malaysia, Myanmar...there are other examples. We can't be bothered by what others think, we should aspire to set our terms of engagement. 

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Agree that we had a spineless government then and that is why India voted overwhelmingly in favour of the current party. Not for the economy to plumb depths, not for ministers to say cow urine cures cancer, not for ministers to say automobile sales are not down because traffic jams...etc etc. 

Sure they deserve brickbats for that. But how are these 2 parties 2 sides of the same coin? 

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We can go down pre-1947 and talk about Savarkar's mercy petitions to the British or go even further back. 

To what end? That's why I said leave it....1946-47 onwards is enough for now esp concerning this topic at hand. 

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The problem is the libtards and extreme right feed off each other. Both sides lack the moral turpitude to speak up for what's right in all cases. I agree with removing Article 370; I would probably welcome a UCC as well, but this? No chance in hell. Kick all of these leeches and termites out.

CAB isn't just an extreme RW fantasy...many centre-right and centrists support this, even on this thread. Honest liberals and LW  too would know it in their hearts that this is reasonable, they are arguing just for the sake of arguing. 

Edited by Gollum
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Dil Dil India Rising Star

Dil Dil India

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Gollum said:

What is your Idea of India?

An India that is for Indians; an India where people from all faiths live together in peace and harmony.

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Where is the equivalence man? We have to do everything to stop their nefarious designs so your last question is invalid.

So why are we opening up our country to their minorities? Who guarantees their loyalty?

 

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They might as well send more scumbags but how was the situation a month before all this? Illegals post 2015 won't get citizenship no matter what. If someone wants to enter India now, better do so legally or find the shortest route to nearest detention centre. 

Your opinion, I don't consider them leeches. Someone who came to India in Jan 1951 after trains of dead bodies stopped crossing over...not a leech. Where else could Sikhs from Afg go after Taliban came to power? My idea of India is a dharmic based one, India is the home of ALL dharmic faiths. 

The thing is, you either keep them all or kick them all out. You can't have separate rules. And this is just the illegal immigrants already here. What about the leeches that come to India from Pak every year on the pretext of medical aid or religious tourism and then stay back and complain when they don't get admission in Indian schools? 

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I trust our intelligence and uniformed forces. They have proved their mettle in Kashmir, NE will be easy peasy. Waise I also trust NE brethren to reject Pak's interference, I trust my countrymen to do the right thing. Also post-Balakot our Pak policy has drastically changed, any terror attack from their end will be ruthlessly punished. This policy will stay even if BJP loses power, precedent has been set, bare minimum expectation....

If you trust our intelligence forces, then you must accept their concerns over the CAB. Regardless, they have their hands full with Kashmir, Pakistan and China. We don't need additional headaches in the N.E. We have some special agreements with large parts of the N.E and a flooding of illegal leeches into their towns threatens the very basis of those agreements.

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Hindu migrants from East Bengal are very grateful and patriotic. 

How will there be more illegal immigration? Unless detention camps provide better standard of living than BD.

Once the link has been cut off and they get our citizenship why will they risk everything? 

That was unfortunate, shouldn't have happened. But more to do with our lethargic way of functioning. 

So what is the guarantee that many others have not been wrongly excluded from NRC. Where does that army officer go? Does he also have to prove his patriotism? Like I said, keep them all or kick them all out. 

 

FTR, I am in favour of a properly implemented NRC. Illegal miscreants cause trouble everwhere they go. However,  for one here it has clearly not been properly implemented and two, they are picking and choosing who to send back and who not to.

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Limit to these communities because partition was done for Muslims by Muslims. Why do Pak/BD Muslims want to come back illegally? If they wish GOI will handle it on a case by case basis. 

I don't want Pak/BD Muslims to come to India. More specifically, I don't want any Pakistanis or BDs coming to India. 

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Turkey, Qatar, Malaysia, Myanmar...there are other examples. We can't be bothered by what others think, we should aspire to set our terms of engagement. 

All of them gutter countries with only Qatar among them relevant because of the oil factor. We are a sovereign nation but we can't antagonise everyone with China and Pakistan hell bent on destroying us. We need allies. Even the EU made a statement on CAB apparently - needless bad press.

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Sure they deserve brickbats for that. But how are these 2 parties 2 sides of the same coin? 

Because they are simply indulging in divise politics. Instead of looking to devise ways of revive a flagging economy, they are more interested in inviting more leeches to our country, putting resources into badly implemented measures and simultaneously antagonizing very large sections of our population and inviting bad press internationally. 

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To what end? That's why I said leave it....1946-47 onwards is enough for now esp concerning this topic at hand. 

CAB isn't just an extreme RW fantasy...many centre-right and centrists support this, even on this thread. Honest liberals and LW  too would know it in their hearts that this is reasonable, they are arguing just for the sake of arguing. 

It's not reasonable for reasons I have outlined already. 

 

1) Badly implemented

2) Keep them all or kick them all

3)Opens up border to more terror threats and leeches (intelligence acknowledged threat)

 

This is simply being done to dilute Muslim population and increase their own vote share. 

 

Edited by Dil Dil India
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coffee_rules Grand Master

coffee_rules

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Dil Dil India said:

And @coffee_rules , have the decency to have a decent debate like a man. If you have nothing decent to add, zip it. Another clown who probably believes that cow urine cures cancer.

Dick, stop tagging me, I will troll vote your stupid ass posts , am too busy to refute your clown opinions

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Tibarn Community Regular

Tibarn

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 12/5/2019 at 7:45 AM, Gollum said:

@Tibarn @Moochad @Stradlater Even if CAB is passed in RS what scope do milords have to overturn this? Will they cling on to basic structure, preamble etc to overturn the act? Fundamental rights is only for Indian citizens I think, will they be able to circumvent that? I don't know our constitution that well, what will the basis of the counter-argument? 

 

This is a huge moment in modern Indian history, trust libtards to throw spanner in the works. 

They will basically cite Article 14 of the constitution 

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The state not deny to any person equality before the law or the equal protection of the laws within The territory of India. protection prohibition of discrimination on grounds of religion, race, Caste, sex, or place of birth.

Too bad these libtards are such clowns that they have made numerous laws/taken numerous actions in violation of this same article, but such people have single digit IQs, so what does one expect? What's funny is that Article 15 itself can be said to contradict Article 14.  

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15. Prohibition of discrimination on grounds of religion, race, caste, sex or place of birth

(1) The State shall not discriminate against any citizen on grounds only of religion, race, caste, sex, place of birth or any of them
(2) No citizen shall, on grounds only of religion, race, caste, sex, place of birth or any of them, be subject to any disability, liability, restriction or condition with regard to
(a) access to shops, public restaurants, hotels and palaces of public entertainment; or
(b) the use of wells, tanks, bathing ghats, roads and places of public resort maintained wholly or partly out of State funds or dedicated to the use of the general public
(3) Nothing in this article shall prevent the State from making any special provision for women and children
(4) Nothing in this article or in clause ( 2 ) of Article 29 shall prevent the State from making any special provision for the advancement of any socially and educationally backward classes of citizens or for the Scheduled Castes and the Scheduled Tribes

The SC can delay and prevent the passing of the law, but the government has options to get creative to get it passed anyway, should it come to that. 
 

I wouldn't be surprised by another "tareekh pe tareekh" moment like RJB case. That is these bastards' best hope. 

Edited by Tibarn
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Muloghonto Experienced

Muloghonto

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Posted
8 hours ago, Dil Dil India said:

I couldn't care less about any of those names. I care about the idea of India.

The idea of India historically and culturally is quite different from colonial and post colonial hangover idea of India. India has always been plural society for those who are NOT aggressive towards us. I shall point out that at no point in time was ANY North Indian or South Indian society friendly towards Muslim kingdoms or empire, until the very end when Vijayanagara HAD to be friendly with Muslims for being surrounded by them and completely dependent on Arabian Sea trade with them. 

 

 

8 hours ago, Dil Dil India said:

I have. We should not take these guys - they are not Indians, let these leeches stay in their own countries.

We are exactly in the same scenario as Israel with worse atrocities committed against us historically: surrounded by enemy and aggressive ideologies and we are the LAST ONE LEFT STANDING regarding truly native and original religon and culture combo. Only difference is we are 100 times bigger than Israel but our demographics are also pointed negative related to our hostile ones. So an Israel-like immigration policy is justified. 

8 hours ago, Dil Dil India said:

I don't care about the Wire. I could quote you different sources. The fact is, our intelligence sees it as a threat. Your second paragraph has nothing to do with what I posted - I am saying they are intent on causing trouble in Punjab/N.E etc and we are making it easier for them. In fact we are doing what PAKISTAN WANTS!

Irrelevant . Intelligence agencies the world over sees immigrants of any type as potential threat. Even tourists. That’s their job. Our job is to not be seclusionary just because our guard dog ( intelligence agencies) always bark at unknown people.

 

 

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