Arguments/Facts in India's favor vs. Arguments/Facts against India and Fair Outcome. Let's call it on this thread

[rangeelaraja]

In India's favor:

 

1) The entire coaching and support staff tested positive including members that physios that do physical work on the players -with the incubation period being 2-3 days - fat chance that they would be found positive in the midst of the match

 

2) There are covid substitution rules -but ALL members stay at the same hotel in the same bubble so all players equally vulnerable

 

3) Families involved - nobody can force a result against a team when it comes to health and family safety.

 

 

Against India / in Eng's favor:

 

1) India broke covid protocols recklessly if not deliberately ( allegedly )

 

2) Eng stands to lose series and key WTC points for no fault of theirs and they cannot be penalized in terms of a lost series outcome for no fault of theirs.

 

 

Fair outcome:

 

The series result remains 2-1, but India and Eng get awarded equal points in WTC due to exceptional circumstances and adjustments

[Mariyam]

I posted this in another thread.

The reaction by Indian fans on INDIANCRICKETFANS is really shocking. Out with their knives ready to slice open the BCCI and Shastri at the slightest hint of a 'fault'.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why are we faulting the BCCI here? 

There was some streaker who got close to our players and our dugout on 2-3 occasions. No one in the crowd wore masks, from whatever little highlights that I have seen. Players were apparently hi fi-ing spectators as they went to the field from the pavilion. They mingled with the spectators while on the boundary and obliged them with autographs. This I have seen on vids on FB. ECB *did not* have an issue with any of this! And watch them act all holier than thou now. Basically passing on culpability.

 

How can you identify the cause of this infection to be the launch of that book? Pure conjecture.

If the IPL gets hit because of a covid outbreak, the BCCI should file a huge law suit against the ECB.

 

Hate BCCI and Ravi Shastri all you want, but this is not on them.

[Jimmy Cliff]

 

 

 

[goose]

hate to be the language police but fat chance usually means 'no' chance

[rangeelaraja]

1 hour ago, Mariyam said:

I posted this in another thread.

The reaction by Indian fans on INDIANCRICKETFANS is really shocking. Out with their knives ready to slice open the BCCI and Shastri at the slightest hint of a 'fault'.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why are we faulting the BCCI here? 

There was some streaker who got close to our players and our dugout on 2-3 occasions. No one in the crowd wore masks, from whatever little highlights that I have seen. Players were apparently hi fi-ing spectators as they went to the field from the pavilion. They mingled with the spectators while on the boundary and obliged them with autographs. This I have seen on vids on FB. ECB *did not* have an issue with any of this! And watch them act all holier than thou now. Basically passing on culpability.

 

How can you identify the cause of this infection to be the launch of that book? Pure conjecture.

If the IPL gets hit because of a covid outbreak, the BCCI should file a huge law suit against the ECB.

 

Hate BCCI and Ravi Shastri all you want, but this is not on them.

 

 

I should've known, you are always on point and express it.

 

With old money comes old wisdom.

[kirkutfan]

It’s a shame that the result of a series is being decided by a bunch of suits, instead of on the field. But  the answer should be simple one. England showed up to play, India didn’t. So what else would it be, other than a forfeit. So let the series be a 2-2 result and we can take it out on them on another day- on the field. We should have confidence in our ability to consistently produce better teams and beat them later. To act as if there was no 5th test scheduled would be wrong. The fans were not stupid for going for a non event. By the way, I am sure you would have had  India supporters who in addition to tickets, had to take leave from work and book transportation and hotels to see that game. I don’t think it would be right to treat this as if it was a rained out game either. Human conduct had a role. It wasn’t just “Mother Nature.” And even if we can make an argument for flaws in the England set up, the fact is that Shastri did a very irresponsible and stupid thing, and at the very minimum opened the door to making India vulnerable to blame. And if the leader of the pack didn’t think twice about going into the crowds for his book signing, how much would you want to bet that more people either in the support staff or the team itself were doing other things that added to the risk? So, the team and the support staff accepted that risk, and unfortunately that contributed to an outcome where India could not show up for the game. Finally, setting up another game to replace this one at a time that is almost a year from now doesn’t make sense. You could have very different teams and circumstances then. This series is over. Accept the forfeit and move on. Next time lets plan our events better. And yes, Ravi Shastri should lose his job over this. He should not be the leader at the World Cup. Let Dhoni handle it.

[nevada]

11 hours ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

 

 

 

If England didn't forfeit those games, then they shouldn't expect India to forfeit either. 

[LordPrabhzy]

5 hours ago, kirkutfan said:

It’s a shame that the result of a series is being decided by a bunch of suits, instead of on the field. But  the answer should be simple one. England showed up to play, India didn’t. So what else would it be, other than a forfeit. So let the series be a 2-2 result and we can take it out on them on another day- on the field. We should have confidence in our ability to consistently produce better teams and beat them later. To act as if there was no 5th test scheduled would be wrong. The fans were not stupid for going for a non event. By the way, I am sure you would have had  India supporters who in addition to tickets, had to take leave from work and book transportation and hotels to see that game. I don’t think it would be right to treat this as if it was a rained out game either. Human conduct had a role. It wasn’t just “Mother Nature.” And even if we can make an argument for flaws in the England set up, the fact is that Shastri did a very irresponsible and stupid thing, and at the very minimum opened the door to making India vulnerable to blame. And if the leader of the pack didn’t think twice about going into the crowds for his book signing, how much would you want to bet that more people either in the support staff or the team itself were doing other things that added to the risk? So, the team and the support staff accepted that risk, and unfortunately that contributed to an outcome where India could not show up for the game. Finally, setting up another game to replace this one at a time that is almost a year from now doesn’t make sense. You could have very different teams and circumstances then. This series is over. Accept the forfeit and move on. Next time lets plan our events better. And yes, Ravi Shastri should lose his job over this. He should not be the leader at the World Cup. Let Dhoni handle it.

I agree with all your points apart from forfeit. Did England Forfiet the one day series before fleeing South Africa? 
 

mistakes have been made on both sides ( Jarvo incident by England security and obv lapses by our TM) so best outcome for all is end the series 2:1 and BCCI to compensate the ecb with the difference in lost revenue from their insurance pay out ( if it doesn’t cover everything) and END the matter.

 

Now if ECB want to play hard ball and the English match referee chewtiya Broad awards the series 2-2 then instruct all franchises to stop buying English players for the IPL. When players get a kick in their stomach the board will come into line very soon

[sandeep]

18 hours ago, Mariyam said:

I posted this in another thread.

The reaction by Indian fans on INDIANCRICKETFANS is really shocking. Out with their knives ready to slice open the BCCI and Shastri at the slightest hint of a 'fault'.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why are we faulting the BCCI here? 

There was some streaker who got close to our players and our dugout on 2-3 occasions. No one in the crowd wore masks, from whatever little highlights that I have seen. Players were apparently hi fi-ing spectators as they went to the field from the pavilion. They mingled with the spectators while on the boundary and obliged them with autographs. This I have seen on vids on FB. ECB *did not* have an issue with any of this! And watch them act all holier than thou now. Basically passing on culpability.

 

How can you identify the cause of this infection to be the launch of that book? Pure conjecture.

If the IPL gets hit because of a covid outbreak, the BCCI should file a huge law suit against the ECB.

 

Hate BCCI and Ravi Shastri all you want, but this is not on them.

 

Absolutely nothing shocking about it.  The sense of entitlement and personal feelings dominates and comes before anything else.

 

The reflexive habit of venting out vitriol on favored hate-targets - whether its Shastri, Rahane, or whoever your special favorite hated one is, is strong.

 

There's this cricket "journalist" on twitter, who said that if the cancellation of the test (instead of forfeit) means that ECB will layoff people, even if one person, then India should voluntarily forfeit the test match, so that jobs can be saved.  I mean, the utter stupidity of this moron, who poses as a 'journalist' - the ECB administration just gave themselves a 2 million pound bonus in the name of the inaugural 'hundred' , while cutting salaries and jobs for their employees.  To think that the cancellation of one test with India is the reason why this venal organization would use to fire people, and its somehow on Indian cricket to "save' those jobs.  The utter stupidity of that 'logic'. 

 

But guess what, he knows what he's doing - trying to market himself as the "non-jingoistic" Indian cricket writer, has more value to him, than being honest. That's just the way of the cricket market.  In spite of India being the sole reason the cricket media market exists.  

 

So many posters on this forum - folks I like and who usually operate with cooler heads - were attacking me yesterday for saying that Indian players were well within their rights to cancel the test.  Its a simple case of allowing personal disappointment and frustration at missing out on a great game, to color their 'logic'.  

 

 

[Jimmy Cliff]

6 minutes ago, sandeep said:

 

Absolutely nothing shocking about it.  The sense of entitlement and personal feelings dominates and comes before anything else.

 

The reflexive habit of venting out vitriol on favored hate-targets - whether its Shastri, Rahane, or whoever your special favorite hated one is, is strong.

 

There's this cricket "journalist" on twitter, who said that if the cancellation of the test (instead of forfeit) means that ECB will layoff people, even if one person, then India should voluntarily forfeit the test match, so that jobs can be saved.  I mean, the utter stupidity of this moron, who poses as a 'journalist' - the ECB administration just gave themselves a 2 million pound bonus in the name of the inaugural 'hundred' , while cutting salaries and jobs for their employees.  To think that the cancellation of one test with India is the reason why this venal organization would use to fire people, and its somehow on Indian cricket to "save' those jobs.  The utter stupidity of that 'logic'. 

 

But guess what, he knows what he's doing - trying to market himself as the "non-jingoistic" Indian cricket writer, has more value to him, than being honest. That's just the way of the cricket market.  In spite of India being the sole reason the cricket media market exists.  

 

So many posters on this forum - folks I like and who usually operate with cooler heads - were attacking me yesterday for saying that Indian players were well within their rights to cancel the test.  Its a simple case of allowing personal disappointment and frustration at missing out on a great game, to color their 'logic'.  

 

 

 

Who is that journo? 

[sandeep]

4 minutes ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

 

Who is that journo? 

Not going to provide him with free publicity...

[Jimmy Cliff]

6 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Not going to provide him with free publicity...

 

Figured out who it is . Mujhe usi pe shak tha. 

[vvvslaxman]

This is tied to IPL. So India can very well field a XI with no COVID infected persons. Also having a match some time later is not ideal as well. Team composition will be different. Form, availability.  Either cancel or forfeit. Don't like the idea of postponement. I already hated the 6 day test vs NZ,  and 2 day One day internationals vs NZ. Now this?

[kirkutfan]

13 hours ago, LordPrabhzy said:

I agree with all your points apart from forfeit. Did England Forfiet the one day series before fleeing South Africa? 
 

mistakes have been made on both sides ( Jarvo incident by England security and obv lapses by our TM) so best outcome for all is end the series 2:1 and BCCI to compensate the ecb with the difference in lost revenue from their insurance pay out ( if it doesn’t cover everything) and END the matter.

 

Now if ECB want to play hard ball and the English match referee chewtiya Broad awards the series 2-2 then instruct all franchises to stop buying English players for the IPL. When players get a kick in their stomach the board will come into line very soon

Yes, there was Jarvo and there were the maskless fans. But notice that England had exposure to those elements too, and yet the pandemic didn’t catch them. Lucky? Maybe. I think the Indian coaching staff and possibly players took more risks than their English counterparts. That was good in part because they had the energy to outlast England in the games they played. But it also caused them to be no shows for that final test. One team shows up, the other doesn’t- the team that shows wins. For me it is that simple. If India does forfeit and the series is 2-2, is it a big deal? I don’t think so. So England get their little draw because of the rules. Doesn’t change the fact that India did really well on this tour. And India is strong enough to make up for this in future matches. With that 2-2 resolution , India would not feel obligated to give these guys a “make up” test. I know real life is different. So now the solution will be determined by the political types in the bcci, ecb and icc who will attempt to flex their muscles while negotiating some messy answer. And here I agree with you that bcci should come out okay since it has leverage.

[deepdynamo]

Just want the resolution fast. ICC should come in and settle the air once for all.

 

Its going to be most probably 2-1 to India taking all circumstances into account.

[rkt.india]

The most important aspect is India couldn't have fielded Bumrah, Shami, Umesh, Siraj, Thakur, Ishant, Pujara, Rohit, Jaddu.

[vayuu1]

India will win 2-1 as there is clause in WTC that in covid cases a test match can be cancelled and this match will be considered null and avoid

[goose]

could India have fielded a weakened team full of subs not in close contact with the physio?

[deathmonger]

On 9/11/2021 at 7:42 PM, Jimmy Cliff said:

 

Figured out who it is . Mujhe usi pe shak tha. 

 

he's an idiot. tryng to be contrarian.

[rkt.india]

1 minute ago, goose said:

could India have fielded a weakened team full of subs not in close contact with the physio?

They didn't have fast bowlers to field. Remember the first statement by ECB. It said didn't have players to take the field.