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Ravichandran Ashwin... is he fit enough to play test cricket?

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That hip strain is a chronic issue for him.  Quite unfair for a lot of folks to call him fat etc.  Obviously the team thinks that Ashwin at 80% is still a good bet.  

 

Players are human beings and bound to have a bad spell here and there, a few cheap dismissals, poor shots etc.  Are we fans of Team India or only of winning? 

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Haven't watched even a single ball of this test. What's the fuss about ? Is the niggle that he had in previous test aggravated ? If so, we did have replacement spinners in squad. Was there any point in selecting a half fit player (if that was the case) and cause more problems for Ashwin ?

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I don’t care what he does but it’s pathetic that his bag of tricks not at all working against lefty tail Enders...

 

Look the pacers can’t take all the wickets. But India is not able to finish off the tail because of the pitch becoming easy and ball getting soft. That’s where Curran and co scoring runs... From 88/6 they got away...

 

Only because the so called bag of tricks not working at all. Both the wickets he got was when batsman trying to hit out... If they don’t hit out, can easily play him...

 

 

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2 minutes ago, asterix said:

I don’t care what he dies but it’s pathetic that his bag of trucks not at all working against lefty tail Enders...

Look the pacers can’t take all the wickets. But India is not able to finish off the tail because of the pitch becoming easy and ball getting soft. That’s where Curran and co scoring runs... From 88/6 they got away...

Only because the so called bag of tricks not working at all. Both the wickets he got was when batsman trying to hit out... If they don’t hit out, can easily play him...

You know how many overs he bowled to English tail? 

 

Broad 1 over.... Alnost gone 2 times. 

Anderson 1 ball.... Curran got out. 

 

He picked up Moeen Ali. Got Curran lbw (umpire's call). 

 

Was taken off the attack after picking up a wicket.

 

Exactly pinpoint the instances in the match where he let it slip away. 

Edited by sensible-indian

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i don't  understand the OTT  criticism Ashwin is getting here.Agreed he could have done a bit more, but 246 still is a fine performance by bowling unit. Now it is up to the batting to show up. Put at least 375  on the board and then can  have a chance.

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Very unfair on Ashwin. The seamers lost the plot when they persisted with an over the wicket line to the left handed batsmen for a while and there simply wasn't sustained pressure from both ends. Considering the conditions and the fact that England were 86/6, this is a poor performance from the seamers except Ishant. Ashwin on a day1 wicket is not expected to do any damage.  

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2 hours ago, asterix said:

^ That’s how shyte Kohli captaincy is... but that’s same for all the bowlers. Kohli is a shyte Captain. Everybody knows it...

 

Still no excuse for this intelligent bag full of tricks bowler..

 

It's true Ashwin didn't bowl at his best today.


It's also true that he can be an irritating bowler at times with his variations.

 

But I don't get where he floundered today.

 

Here's the timeline:

 

1. He was introduced for his 2nd over when England went from 86-6 to 122-6 with both Sam and Ali getting their eye in.

 

2. He kept one end tight with an economy of 2 before he was taken off the attack. Still ended with a decent 2.7 economy.

 

3. When he was taken off the attack, his numbers read 12 overs 24 runs 1 wicket with a lucky escape for Sam several overs back. Had it been another day, it would have been 12 overs 24 runs 2 wickets and a easy tail to attack. What would have been his final figures then?

 

4. After he was taken off the attack, our pacers leaked runs and we lost the initiative. By the time he came back in, Sam was in attacking mood. 1 poor over where he gave away 12 runs. His fault. 13 overs 36 runs. 1 wicket.

 

5. Next over, he looked good and Broad's edge didn't carry which went for 4 and he was taken off the attack again. 14 overs. 40 runs. 1 wicket.

 

6. Then taken off the attack and pacers leaked runs again. Finally he was brought back on and Curran out. 14.4 overs. 40 runs. 2 wickets.

 

---

 

So I am curious to know where exactly Ashwin floundered today except for the 1 poor over of a new spell against a set Curran looking to attack.

 

Yes, English had 7 lefties but it's not like track was helping. There was hardly any turn (atleast not enough to beat edges). So where exactly could he have done better to help India today?

 

---

 

Also last game, he may have picked up only 1 wicket in 2nd innings (bowled just 1 over in 1st innings) but he created a bunch of chances in what little overs he could bowl. 2 lbws going umpire's call (Stokes and Ali or someone else) and quite a few beaten and close calls. That too with injury.

 

Problem I see is that unless and until he wins India a couple of games overseas, every single spell of his will be scrutinized and over analyzed. It's just situation. In Dhoni era, we never looked like winning any of the games.

 

If we honestly have the same level of scrutiny for other bowlers (let alone spinners), a lot of opinions may have to be changed.

Edited by sensible-indian

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Watched the final stretch of their innings. He almost got Broad out twice in an over, dismissed their 2 best batsmen of the day: Curran and Moeen and had a few close LBW shouts. Figures read 40/2 in some 15 overs....you expect 40/5 on day 1 England pitch? Well not happening even if the bowler is Warne or Murali. What a stupid thread. That too on a day where we have taken a big stride towards leveling the series, 246 a.o on a 400 par pitch and you guys complain, WTF?

 

I have followed Indian cricket since the time of 90s Kumble and let me tell you you don't just turn up in SENA and pick 4fers on day 1. Everyone plays a role and today Ashwin played his part very well.

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Who are these guys. Bring back bajji gang or Kuldeep the new warne folks?? Ashwin is a much improved bowler now which was evident even in SA. He was much better than herath in SL, Maharaja in SA and will be better than Lyon in Australia next year. 

Edited by R.D forever

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36 minutes ago, asterix said:

Only because the so called bag of tricks not working at all. Both the wickets he got was when batsman trying to hit out... If they don’t hit out, can easily play him...

That's BS. Sometimes unplayable balls don't fetch wickets and sometimes ordinary balls are enough. Did you count the great balls he bowled which had them tied up but couldn't get their names on wicket column? Or his bad luck w.r.t umpires call in LBWs? Nobody is forcing them to hit out. Moeen went aggro at a stage where they were recovering well, Curran could have been calculative and taken England to end of day's play...don't blame the bowler if the batsmen can't execute their plans. Moreover both the wicket taking balls weren't full tosses or rank short pitch balls, the kind which got Rashid his wickets. There was an element of loop and change of pace that deceived the well set (test) batsmen. If they could easily play him they wouldn't have crawled at 2.5 RPO, 5 LBW shouts, 3 'almost carried' edges in a span of 15 overs.

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9 minutes ago, R.D forever said:

FFS. Would you create same thread for a pace bowler in subcontinent condition? Finger spinner getting 2 wickets for 40 odd runs in 1st day English condition is more than enough. Always cribbing about something :no:

He's the world's no1 spinner for a while now ,I personally expected a lot from him especially after the 1st test .ashwin himself would be disappointed with today's outcome so I don't understand why people are defending him.

His side strain and thigh strain is also a result of his unfit body which is primarily his own fault 

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5 minutes ago, Adi BB said:

He's the world's no1 spinner for a while now ,I personally expected a lot from him especially after the 1st test .ashwin himself would be disappointed with today's outcome so I don't understand why people are defending him.

His side strain and thigh strain is also a result of his unfit body which is primarily his own fault 

At what? Read @sensible-indian's post above and come back with an answer. 

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6 minutes ago, Adi BB said:

His side strain and thigh strain is also a result of his unfit body which is primarily his own fault 

this. He is a great. Perhaps one of if not the greatest off spinner from India, his one draw back is *ing being lazy being unfit. Thairsadham...too much of it.Spend some time in the gym dude, have some shame.

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1 minute ago, Gollum said:

At what? Read @sensible-indian's post above and come back with an answer. 

At being the no 1 bowler and not being able to get the Currans and moens out quickly especially with his great repo against lefties. The type of person  he is ,I am pretty sure he'd be disappointed at not getting those two out early ,hes the type of guy who wants to excel and not settle for mediocrity which some of you are defending to no end 

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33 minutes ago, Vilander said:

But the guy is unfit..i mean how can an international fckg athelete whose only work is to stay fit and do a physically astounding job not be more fit than a regular every day joe ??

Test cricket is skills based, fitness is secondary.

 

Ashwin or for that matter even Amit Mishra or Romesh Powar are way fitter than regular Indians. Regular Indians won't be able to spend a session on the field in international cricket, regular Indians won't be able to exert themselves for 30 continuous minutes under the sun.

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1 minute ago, Adi BB said:

At being the no 1 bowler and not being able to get the Currans and moens out quickly especially with his great repo against lefties. The type of person  he is ,I am pretty sure he'd be disappointed at not getting those two out early ,hes the type of guy who wants to excel and not settle for mediocrity which some of you are defending to no end 

to be honest..i am sick of this Curran being lucky to escape..ahh great ball but curran survives..

 

fcuking get him. Bumrah Ashwin both could not dislodge him earlier...Eng were there for the taking...at 86..120..at 140...no 240.lol

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Just now, Gollum said:

Test cricket is skills based, fitness is secondary.

 

Ashwin or for that matter even Amit Mishra or Romesh Powar are way fitter than regular Indians. Regular Indians won't be able to spend a session on the field in international cricket, regular Indians won't be able to exert themselves for 30 continuous minutes under the sun.

dude i agree...they are super fit.

 

but is Ashwin fit enough to be an international athelete..

 

be honest, if you were paid millions and had the skill to be a great international athlete.

 

Would you have any lack of motivation in the morning to pump iron and do all sorts of core strength training to be absolutely on top of what you can do when you are on prime time..how can the guy have a paunch ?  

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6 minutes ago, Adi BB said:

He's the world's no1 spinner for a while now ,I personally expected a lot from him especially after the 1st test .ashwin himself would be disappointed with today's outcome so I don't understand why people are defending him.

His side strain and thigh strain is also a result of his unfit body which is primarily his own fault 

World of difference between he didn't bowl great and he bowled crap.

 

He has a perception problem because he hasn't yet won a game for India in SENA countries (which has got more to do with unfortunate timing).

 

Also since he irritates fans with his variations rather than bowling 5 or 6 balls in one spot, that anger gets directed elsewhere.

 

Only way to shed the perception is by winning a few games in SENA. He has to consistently perform well and hope the team clicks when he does.

 

Then people will view him in a different way.

 

Time will tell if he is able to do this or not.

 

 

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1 hour ago, asterix said:

I don’t care what he does but it’s pathetic that his bag of tricks not at all working against lefty tail Enders...

 

Look the pacers can’t take all the wickets. But India is not able to finish off the tail because of the pitch becoming easy and ball getting soft. That’s where Curran and co scoring runs... From 88/6 they got away...

 

Only because the so called bag of tricks not working at all. Both the wickets he got was when batsman trying to hit out... If they don’t hit out, can easily play him...

 

 

be sensible with your criticism. Follow sensible Indian.

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58 minutes ago, sensible-indian said:

You know how many overs he bowled to English tail? 

 

Broad 1 over.... Alnost gone 2 times. 

Anderson 1 ball.... Curran got out. 

 

He picked up Moeen Ali. Got Curran lbw (umpire's call). 

 

Was taken off the attack after picking up a wicket.

 

Exactly pinpoint the instances in the match where he let it slip away. 

So true.  Where were all the vultures on this thread when he took out Cook 2 times in a row with *en Jaffas?   Take the conditions into account a bit.  Ball wasn't turning at all today, England wouldn't dare risk a track that will turn from Day 1.  Not against us.  They'd rather keep it green and moist - too bad for them that it's backfiring anyway.

 

There's still plenty of time left in this test for him to come back and win it for us in the 2nd dig - provided the batsmen deliver for once and put up a nice 420-450 on the board. 

 

 

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Just now, sensible-indian said:

World of difference between he didn't bowl great and he bowled crap.

 

He has a perception problem because he hasn't yet won a game for India in SENA countries (which has got more to do with unfortunate timing).

 

Also since he irritates fans with his variations rather than bowling 5 or 6 balls in one spot, that anger gets directed elsewhere.

 

Only way to shed the perception is by winning a few games in SENA. He has to consistently perform well and hope the team clicks when he does.

 

Then people will view him in a different way.

 

Time will tell if he is able to do this or not.

 

 

Agree .He will find it hard in Australia (any spinner will ) so he has to make this series count because England batting is in a doldrum and are short of confidence.

He has to comeback strongly in the next 3 innings and he has a huge opportunity to make a match winning impact with the ball in the next innings 

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2 minutes ago, sandeep said:

So true.  Where were all the vultures on this thread when he took out Cook 2 times in a row with *en Jaffas?   Take the conditions into account a bit.  Ball wasn't turning at all today, England wouldn't dare risk a track that will turn from Day 1.  Not against us.  They'd rather keep it green and moist - too bad for them that it's backfiring anyway.

 

There's still plenty of time left in this test for him to come back and win it for us in the 2nd dig - provided the batsmen deliver for once and put up a nice 420-450 on the board. 

 

 

i think questioning his bowling ability is disingenuous, but he is just about passably fit for an international cricketer.  If he is not physically constrained he will do better, this is a bit like Zak. he was super skilled but would often hold his hamstring, and folks would be like here we go again. 

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18 minutes ago, Adi BB said:

At being the no 1 bowler and not being able to get the Currans and moens out quickly especially with his great repo against lefties. The type of person  he is ,I am pretty sure he'd be disappointed at not getting those two out early ,hes the type of guy who wants to excel and not settle for mediocrity which some of you are defending to no end 

Nobody is defending anything, we are having a facts based argument here.

 

On his 22nd ball to Moeen he got him out. Moeen scored 9 runs in the previous 21 balls.

 

On his 49th ball to Curran he got him out. In the previous 48 balls Curran scored 23 runs off his bowling. Also an LBW umpire's call but let us forget that for the time being and focus only on the numbers.

 

What do you think is lacking in the stats? Moeen 9(22) and Curran 23(49).......their 2 best batsmen this innings. Average 16, SR never mind.

 

RELEVANT LINK

 

1 hour ago, asterix said:

He’s clearly not fit in this series. Don’t want this guy in the last match.

He’s already screwed up in this match...

Same question.

 

Edited by Gollum

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1 hour ago, VT87 said:

Bhai abhi eske andh bhakat aa jaye ge  but truth is that he has been always mediocre overseas player  and has not done anything . 

Define a great Indian spinner in overseas conditions waiting.

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Match winning spell is not a quantifiable statistic TBH. He took a 4 fer in SA and ENG. Batsmen *ed up. What can he do? Ashwin is 32. I am pretty sure he will be in the team for the next overseas cycle as well. He would pick up wickets ( Already 10 this series) . Match winning and all depends on luck and other team mates

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7 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Nobody is defending anything, we are having a facts based argument here.

 

On his 22nd ball to Moeen he got him out. Moeen scored 9 runs in the previous 21 balls.

 

On his 49th ball to Curran he got him out. In the previous 48 balls Curran scored 23 runs off his bowling. Also an LBW umpire's call but let us forget that for the time being and focus only on the numbers.

 

What do you think is lacking in the stats? Moeen 9(22) and Curran 23(49).......their 2 best batsmen this innings. Average 16, SR never mind.

 

RELEVANT LINK

 

Same question.

 

very good perspective.

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38 minutes ago, Vilander said:

dude i agree...they are super fit.

 

but is Ashwin fit enough to be an international athelete..

 

be honest, if you were paid millions and had the skill to be a great international athlete.

 

Would you have any lack of motivation in the morning to pump iron and do all sorts of core strength training to be absolutely on top of what you can do when you are on prime time..how can the guy have a paunch ?  

My comment was aimed at the 'regular every day joe' part. I have seen many Ranji cricketers training from up close and even the fat ones are supremely fit compared to regular Indians.

 

I agree he isn't quite up to the mark desired for an international cricketer of such high repute. I wish he works harder but my focus in test cricket will always be on the skill set. Kumble, Warne, Saqlain, Herath, MacGill, Mushtaq, Kaneria etc were some good/outstanding spinners who were quite short on the fitness parameter. I am sure these guys work hard but maybe the focus is on supple wrists, strong fingers, shoulder strength, hip motion and endurance (long spells) rather than pumping iron...after all spin bowling is a subtle art and doesn't demand brute strength. We do not know for sure how they spend their time, so we can't make judgements on their work ethic. May be the kind of workout these great spinners do doesn't help with their gut measurements or swiftness or explosive power like say the training routine of other specialists. Just my speculation but may be they refrain from weights because it affects their flexibility? I am only making this point because most of the great spinners I have seen look unfit but somehow have the ability to bowl non stop for 35 overs in a day without breaking a sweat, forget cramps which affect even fit batsmen like Kohli, Dravid, Kaif with similar workload.

 

Same is true for the spinners of yesteryear (but fitness wasn't an integral part of cricket back then).......Jadeja, Swann, Lyon may be Murali/Vettori (unsure) are exceptions and deserve credit. 

Edited by Gollum

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2 minutes ago, Gollum said:

My comment was aimed at the 'regular every day joe' part. I have seen many cricketers training from up close and even the fat ones are supremely fit compared to regular Indians.

 

I agree he isn't quite up to the mark desired for an international cricketer. I wish he works harder but my focus in test cricket will always be on the skill set. Kumble, Warne, Saqlain, Herath, MacGill, Mushtaq, Kaneria etc were some good/outstanding spinners who were quite short on the fitness parameter. I am sure these guys work hard but maybe the focus is on supple wrists, strong fingers, shoulder strength, hip motion and endurance (long spells) rather than pumping iron...after all spin bowling is a subtle art and doesn't demand brute strength. We do not know for sure how they spend their time, so we can't make judgements on their work ethic. May be the kind of workout these great spinners do doesn't help with their gut measurements or swiftness or explosive power like say the training routine of other specialists. Just my speculation but may be they refrain from weights because it affects their flexibility? I am only making this point because most of the great spinners I have seen look unfit but somehow have the ability to bowl non stop for 35 overs in a day without breaking a sweat, forget cramps which affect even fit batsmen like Kohli, Dravid, Kaif with similar workload.

 

Same is true for the spinners of yesteryear (but then fitness wasn't an integral part of cricket back then).......Jadeja, Swann, Lyon may be Murali/Vettori (unsure) are exceptions and deserve credit. 

Ashwin is pear shaped. Has flimsy wrists. Warne was not ( he was fat though) neither was Kumble..or Murali..

 

He needs to gain core strength, he is obviously tall so has a good frame but nothing else is going for him, may be he is able to run and stand around for long periods and his fitness is primarily from playing cricket and running around.

 

Needs core strength of an athlete and its not that difficult i think he does not do basics even for attaining that, hip problems thigh problems overall unfit..but supremely skilled.

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9 minutes ago, Vilander said:

Ashwin is pear shaped. Has flimsy wrists. Warne was not ( he was fat though) neither was Kumble..or Murali..

 

He needs to gain core strength, he is obviously tall so has a good frame but nothing else is going for him, may be he is able to run and stand around for long periods and his fitness is primarily from playing cricket and running around.

 

Needs core strength of an athlete and its not that difficult i think he does not do basics even for attaining that, hip problems thigh problems overall unfit..but supremely skilled.

True. Madhavan actor was slim, little chubby. he bulked like anything for iruthi sutru. May be this guy should join a professional gym and work on it.

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1 minute ago, vvvslaxman said:

True. Madhavan actor was slim, little chubby. he bulked like anything for iruthi sutru. May be this guy should join a professional gym and work on it.

In intent yes, Although Madhavan just put on some muscles..not sure if he got any core strength or flexibility..

 

Bulking even with muscles is mostly working out and eating right ( you see all bollywood muppets do this often and Kamal hasan etc do it all the time -- very easy to do all can, just eat whey  and some creatine ( like beef or drink creatine) and go to gym or do floor exercise), some people also eat a lot and bulk with some additional adipose tissue..fat on top of a bit of muscle buildup.

 

Strength training is for specific muscle groups ( difficult to do, needs fitness instructor and or trainer - but builds core strength for a specific sport) UFC , weight lifters, gymnasts do it differently..for their own requirements..

 

Ashiwn looks like he trains for cricket does not strength train or does very little to be passable..has never done any working out in his life to build muscles which might have been a good thing for him till now for flexibility..but also makes him look very unfit when he carries a paunch..

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42 minutes ago, Vilander said:

In intent yes, Although Madhavan just put on some muscles..not sure if he got any core strength or flexibility..

 

Bulking even with muscles is mostly working out and eating right ( you see all bollywood muppets do this often and Kamal hasan etc do it all the time -- very easy to do all can, just eat whey  and some creatine ( like beef or drink creatine) and go to gym or do floor exercise), some people also eat a lot and bulk with some additional adipose tissue..fat on top of a bit of muscle buildup.

 

Strength training is for specific muscle groups ( difficult to do, needs fitness instructor and or trainer - but builds core strength for a specific sport) UFC , weight lifters, gymnasts do it differently..for their own requirements..

 

Ashiwn looks like he trains for cricket does not strength train or does very little to be passable..has never done any working out in his life to build muscles which might have been a good thing for him till now for flexibility..but also makes him look very unfit when he carries a paunch..

Exactly what else you have to do. lol not like doing production support late in the night like me :(( With everything from cleaning the house, mowing the lawn, driving up and down 60 miles every day i still find time to work out. What is wrong with these guys.

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