Harsha Bhogle's excellent words on the current chaos

[sandeep]

 

 

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I think young India is speaking to us. It is telling us what it wants to be; and that it doesn't want to be what we are telling it to be.

For many years now, I have been bullish on India. There is a reason. My generation grew up in an India that was still feeling the after effects of being plundered by colonial England. My parents' generation weren't just short on resources, they also had their confidence sucked away by a terrible, repressive environment. We were luckier but we still didn't know what we were capable of 

I was in my early 30s when two quiet gentlemen brought about a revolution. Maybe Narasimha Rao was forced into opening up India by the calamity that would have befallen us otherwise. Maybe Manmohan Singh had no choice but to deliver the budgets he did. But they saw the writing on the wall and they acted 

The effects of liberalisation on my generation were beyond what we could have dreamt of. If at 32, I was asked to imagine an India of opportunity, I wouldn't have imagined half of what I was privileged to see. As India opened up we were allowed to believe we could be as good as anyone else in the world. And to our great joy, we discovered that we were indeed as good. We had never thought of ourselves that way. We became the blessed generation and our children benefited from it, they dreamt higher than we knew.

India under 30 now is brimming with possibility. Their minds have been opened, they are proud Indians but they are citizens of the world. And India under 40 is showing that it has the ability to take on the world by getting into leadership positions. This India is more confident, better informed, more aware and far more ambitious than we could ever have been. It is a beautiful India and it has been nurtured by people who are liberal and secular at heart. Those are beautiful words.

So what should we, the generation that reaped the benefits of liberalisation and openness, be doing for the next? Quite simply, putting an arm round their shoulder, patting them on the back and getting out of their way for we can at best be the banks to their rivers.

This is a great time to be a benevolent government; to think of education, of infrastructure, of technology; to remove barriers, to embrace openness, to free this beautiful generation to take India beyond where we think it can be. 

So why are we creating fear? Why are we driving wedges into society? Instead of giving this generation wings to fly, why are we putting a weight on their backs? Why are we obsessed about our neighbours when, as an economic entity, they aren't even in the same book, let alone on the same page as us?. We are shrinking our country by highlighting our differences and young India is telling us it isn't happy.

So, other than writing lengthy emotional posts, something that is easy to do, what should my generation do? Forget changing the world, we can encourage five people, maybe ten and that will be enough. I have seen that happen in front of my eyes. At a low point in my career, I got to work with young people. Their energy was an eye-opener. All I had to do was pat them on the back sometimes, provide a window to a new world. No more. In the last three years, these young people have made CricBuzz an extraordinary success. It is just a small example in a small sector but it tells us what is possible.

Winning elections isn't a good enough reason for highlighting differences between us. My naive view of the world tells me that creating opportunities through liberalisation and openness and togetherness could win more elections. 

So my appeal to people in power, to those my age and older is simply this. We have played a very nice innings, we have been lucky to have been Indians for the last twenty five years. Let us not burden the next generation with talk of war and cultural differences. They are going to be better than we were. Let them be. In a happy, open, secular, liberal world, they can become the best in the world. 

 

 

 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1669060689890886&id=394303300699971

[someone]

You arent secular if you continues to give in to demands of mobs/aggressive groups. Thats called being weak and that is the exact thing that defines Those self proclaimed secular parties today, they offer veto power to one certain community group.

[The Realist]

Good old clueless motormouth Bhogle. His cricketing analysis is inept so can't expect him to say anything of political-economic value.

 

Giving in to RoPer terror & intimidation lies the road to ruin when they are the opposite of the liberalisation & openness he yaps on about. 

Edited December 24, 2019 by The Realist

[Deleted_User_1]

I do not see anything obviously wrong with his write-up? Do you think Modi Govt has delivered on its economical and social progress messages? I think if the Govt focused on that instead of issues like this that stoke emotions, wouldn't that be better? Get the important stuff done first. After all, Indians are indians and everyone appreciates having a better standard of living. Constitution does not favor one religion over the others. Also, if repressed minorities have legal path to citizenship, then what about the Rohingas from Myanmar or Balochis, Ahmadis from Pak?

[Ranvir]

15 minutes ago, Audiophile said:

I do not see anything obviously wrong with his write-up? Do you think Modi Govt has delivered on its economical and social progress messages? I think if the Govt focused on that instead of issues like this that stoke emotions, wouldn't that be better? Get the important stuff done first. After all, Indians are indians and everyone appreciates having a better standard of living. Constitution does not favor one religion over the others. Also, if repressed minorities have legal path to citizenship, then what about the Rohingas from Myanmar or Balochis, Ahmadis from Pak?

Which imbecile wrote this constitution? Were the public consulted?

 

Let me explain it to you in clear terms. The muslims of India asked for Pakistan and Bangladesh (then called East Pakistan), they used violence for this, known as direct action day. They instigated massacres to force out non muslims in Rawalpindi (Sikhs) and Noahkhali (Bengali Hindus). Pakistan became 97% muslim and Bangladesh has gone from 22% Hindu in 1971 to 8% in 2019. Indian muslims have grown from 9% to 14%.

 

Rohingya muslims are the same Bengali muslims who were involved in Noahkhali type riots. They even massacred Hindu Rohingyas last year  https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/05/myanmar-new-evidence-reveals-rohingya-armed-group-massacred-scores-in-rakhine-state/

 

Ahmediyas are the same people who wanted Pakistan and supported the muslim league.

 

Screw these people. They've made their beds and now have to sleep in it. 

 

Stop being a weak coward. You don't know what you're dealing with.

 

I went to speakers corner in london this past weekend and saw what crazy people muslims are. They will drag any society to the bottom. Show them the same tolerance they show when they are the majority.

[Deleted_User_1]

15 minutes ago, Ranvir said:

Which imbecile wrote this constitution? Were the public consulted?

 

Let me explain it to you in clear terms. The muslims of India asked for Pakistan and Bangladesh (then called East Pakistan), they used violence for this, known as direct action day. They instigated massacres to force out non muslims in Rawalpindi (Sikhs) and Noahkhali (Bengali Hindus). Pakistan became 97% muslim and Bangladesh has gone from 22% Hindu in 1971 to 8% in 2019. Indian muslims have grown from 9% to 14%.

 

Rohingya muslims are the same Bengali muslims who were involved in Noahkhali type riots. They even massacred Hindu Rohingyas last year  https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/05/myanmar-new-evidence-reveals-rohingya-armed-group-massacred-scores-in-rakhine-state/

 

Ahmediyas are the same people who wanted Pakistan and supported the muslim league.

 

Screw these people. They've made their beds and now have to sleep in it. 

 

Stop being a weak coward. You don't know what you're dealing with.

 

I went to speakers corner in london this past weekend and saw what crazy people muslims are. They will drag any society to the bottom. Show them the same tolerance they show when they are the majority.

Don't call me names OK? I bet you would not have the stomach to belch out insults to my face, you keyboard warrior. My perception of muslims in US is obviously different because I do not see or meet the same people you see in UK and Europe. This Khoon ke badle Khoon will lead to nowhere also. The only way you can change people's mind is through enlightenment. It may sound like fluff to you, but eventually an eye for an eye goes nowhere.

[Ranvir]

44 minutes ago, Audiophile said:

Don't call me names OK? I bet you would not have the stomach to belch out insults to my face, you keyboard warrior. My perception of muslims in US is obviously different because I do not see or meet the same people you see in UK and Europe. This Khoon ke badle Khoon will lead to nowhere also. The only way you can change people's mind is through enlightenment. It may sound like fluff to you, but eventually an eye for an eye goes nowhere.

Muslims cannot be enlightened. They believe in the quran only. They are in small numbers only in the USA. To see what a community is truly like you have to see how they behave when in a majority or in large numbers. Each generation becomes more extreme than the previous.

 

You havent replied about Rohingya muslims massacring Hindu Rohingyas or the Noahkhali riots. How about muslim kashmiris throwing out kashmiri pandits?

[Deleted_User_1]

15 minutes ago, Ranvir said:

Muslims cannot be enlightened. They believe in the quran only. They are in small numbers only in the USA. To see what a community is truly like you have to see how they behave when in a majority or in large numbers. Each generation becomes more extreme than the previous.

 

You havent replied about Rohingya muslims massacring Hindu Rohingyas or the Noahkhali riots. How about muslim kashmiris throwing out kashmiri pandits?

But how are you showing your sense of enligthenment by making sweeping generalizations and putting every one in one basket. The reason US muslims are not radicalized is because most of them are well educated and have high standard of living. Have you ever thought socio-economic conditions have to do something with radicalization? Also in US the govt does not dole out free stuff, you have to earn your living. Clearly, you do not have decent Muslim friends or acquaintances, otherwise you would look at the situation with more objectivity. 

 

Actually I see this sentiment on chit chat with a lot of ICF frequenters. I am sorry, I do not have that much hate in my heart for a certain class of people. While I realize that Islam is stuck in the middle ages because it has not gone through a modern reformation and I personally find a lot of the practices reprehensible, I am not going to lump every Muslim in one box. I know a fair no of folks who are secular or even religious, but do not care about thrusting it on others. I think I am done with this topic. I will refrain from commenting on this issue to avoid some Hindu extremist ganging up on me. Organized religion is the greatest bane on human civilization and has led to violence more than anything else. This is exactly I do not care about organized religion.

 

Khuda Hafeez!!!

[The Realist]

6 hours ago, Audiophile said:

But how are you showing your sense of enligthenment by making sweeping generalizations and putting every one in one basket. The reason US muslims are not radicalized is because most of them are well educated and have high standard of living. Have you ever thought socio-economic conditions have to do something with radicalization? Also in US the govt does not dole out free stuff, you have to earn your living. Clearly, you do not have decent Muslim friends or acquaintances, otherwise you would look at the situation with more objectivity. 

 

Actually I see this sentiment on chit chat with a lot of ICF frequenters. I am sorry, I do not have that much hate in my heart for a certain class of people. While I realize that Islam is stuck in the middle ages because it has not gone through a modern reformation and I personally find a lot of the practices reprehensible, I am not going to lump every Muslim in one box. I know a fair no of folks who are secular or even religious, but do not care about thrusting it on others. I think I am done with this topic. I will refrain from commenting on this issue to avoid some Hindu extremist ganging up on me. Organized religion is the greatest bane on human civilization and has led to violence more than anything else. This is exactly I do not care about organized religion.

 

Khuda Hafeez!!!

That's just empty liberal apologist BS. All the 9/11 terrorists were well educated and enjoyed high living standards. Ditto most of those involved in terror attacks across Europe in the last decade.

 

Expecting the "blame western foreign policy" train to pull into the station soon, that one never gets old & is always on time. 

Edited December 25, 2019 by The Realist

[Gollum]

7 hours ago, Audiophile said:

Have you ever thought socio-economic conditions have to do something with radicalization? 

Busted, time and again. 

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 I will refrain from commenting on this issue to avoid some Hindu extremist ganging up on me.

If you think some of us ICFers are Hindu extremists then by defaullt every single Muslim, ever born on this planet is a mega-extremist. We don't shout in loudspeakers 5x every day that our way of life is the only true path and all others are fake. We don't liken others with beasts and claim no hiding from fires of hell, ask your liberal M friends who out of Osama Bin Laden and Harriet Tubman is in hell and who is in heaven...you'll be surprised as they squirm and * their minds trying to fake their moderate exterior...or maybe your friends have a false belief that they are indeed Muslim  but not to worry they will be rejected by actual Muslims in a jiffy. 

 

And while you are at it , kindly name some Muslim majority countries where minorities are treated like humans. Indonesia is a chilled out M country if we are to believe, but in Western Sumatra Christmas celebrations have been banned by the Muslims there and 2 churches razed to the ground last week by govt authorities citing 'against Islam'. Apparently you need signature of every Muslim in that province to construct a non-Muslim place of worship. I will say with utmost confidence that the most despotic ruler in non-Muslim world will be more empathetic than the most tolerant Islamic regime....someone like Trump is more kind-hearted, liberal, tolerant than every single Muslim leader in history...change my mind. Same applies to someone as villified as Modi, I will wager that my PM is 10x the man the Islamic prophet was (based on factual, logical arguments), forget normal sultans, badshahs....I will be open-minded here and always ready to be put in my place. 

Edited December 25, 2019 by Gollum

[jf1gp_1]

PC at its best. Even Harsha doesnt believe in what he wrote. 

[Real McCoy]

13 hours ago, sandeep said:

So, other than writing lengthy emotional posts, something that is easy to do, what should my generation do? Forget changing the world, we can encourage five people, maybe ten and that will be enough. I have seen that happen in front of my eyes. At a low point in my career, I got to work with young people.

This was one Harsha needs to shut up. I find his cricket commentary grating to the ears. I don't want him to give sermons on secular bullshit. Also he weaves his "low point" into this rubbish. Nobody wants to hear your sob stories you clown. Those with sob stories are the ones who live luxuriously and like a sociopath beg the common man to give them a helping hand.

[coffee_rules]

He should just stick mindless commentary on cricket instead of patronizing others on how to feel about India. His words are coming from a Stockholm syndrome of living under Nizam ruled Hyderabad getting screwed by Razakkars like Owaisi. There was nothing in CAB to oppose the way these so called young people, singing Faiz and hoping that Allah will deliver them salvation, 

[someone]

1 hour ago, coffee_rules said:

He should just stick mindless commentary on cricket instead of patronizing others on how to feel about India. His words are coming from a Stockholm syndrome of living under Nizam ruled Hyderabad getting screwed by Razakkars like Owaisi. There was nothing in CAB to oppose the way these so called young people, singing Faiz and hoping that Allah will deliver them salvation, 

People like Harsha can only write articles about the current environment . But the moment, that violence lands in front on their doorsteps, they will run away, outside India and go quiet...

[Oldhere]

How can there be so much hatred???

 

Never had muslim friends, never visited there homes and have heard stories abt how poorly they live, sanitation issues, there hatred for India etc etc but never ever have hated a community and never want nrc to be implemented.

 

This whole generation of bhakt biradri got this hindu samrat elected believing he will make them sone ki chidiya again but instead of acknowledging that, they read him incorrectly, they are trying to find happiness in article 370, nrc etc but when someone asks them why same party is trying of implement article 370 type in assam again they just wont answer.

 

Politics is a business for all the politicians from all parties but hum jaise chuuuu ladte rehte hain

[Gollum]

 

[Gollum]

1 hour ago, Oldhere said:

This whole generation of bhakt biradri got this hindu samrat elected believing he will make them sone ki chidiya again but instead of acknowledging that, they read him incorrectly, they are trying to find happiness in article 370,

You have problem with 370 abrogation? If you are a Pakistani (asking since I haven't interacted with you before) no need to answer. 

Quote

but when someone asks them why same party is trying of implement article 370 type in assam again they just wont answer.

Flew over my head.

 

Edited December 25, 2019 by Gollum

[sandeep]

4 hours ago, Real McCoy said:

This was one Harsha needs to shut up. I find his cricket commentary grating to the ears. I don't want him to give sermons on secular bullshit. Also he weaves his "low point" into this rubbish. Nobody wants to hear your sob stories you clown. Those with sob stories are the ones who live luxuriously and like a sociopath beg the common man to give them a helping hand.

 

4 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

He should just stick mindless commentary on cricket instead of patronizing others on how to feel about India. His words are coming from a Stockholm syndrome of living under Nizam ruled Hyderabad getting screwed by Razakkars like Owaisi. There was nothing in CAB to oppose the way these so called young people, singing Faiz and hoping that Allah will deliver them salvation, 

So "Real McCoy" and "Coffee_rules" have a right to express their opinion, but Bhogle should stick to cricket? 

 

I don't even like Harsha or his commentary, but his words here have value.  At a minimum, he has a right to his opinion, and those disliking it, by resorting to silly pathetic personal attacks, are giving ample evidence of their inability to dispute the points he's made. 

[Real McCoy]

6 minutes ago, sandeep said:

 

So "Real McCoy" and "Coffee_rules" have a right to express their opinion, but Bhogle should stick to cricket? 

 

I don't even like Harsha or his commentary, but his words here have value.  At a minimum, he has a right to his opinion, and those disliking it, by resorting to silly pathetic personal attacks, are giving ample evidence of their inability to dispute the points he's made. 

Harsha is not just giving his opinion. He delivers his opinion on a mass scale fully knowing a lot of readers will tune in. He is taking sides without you even knowing it. But I can see it. You bought his "opinion" because you are on the same wavelength as him. That's why you are praising him in this thread. Don't try to push him on to us. Many of us are not in THAT side of the spectrum. Do you understand me.

I can say whatever I want. According to you I have a right to my opinion. So if my opinion is that his opinion is cheap, why are you getting upset. Don't nitpick my words. Asking somebody to shut up doesn't mean I'm infringing on his right to opinion. Yeah me talking in ICF is as famous as Harsha telling mass media. You act like a lawyer in a court case. This is a cricket forum for crying out loud. Its my opinion that his words have no value. 

He built his name on so many cricketers and the cricketing establishment while offering not much in return. His arrogance has p1ssed off so many other commentators and players. The only thing he is good at is using flowery language and a glib tongue. He delivers the most obvious answers in words power english. He is only better than the others because the others suck. Him interrupting Bishop while he is commentating and annoying him was the most cringeworthy thing I have seen. This happened a year ago.

If you want to rip him apart, I can do that easily. He said something about fear mongering. How is this fear mongering. Is anyone's rights as a citizen being threatened. Looks more like you and Harsha are the ones doing the fear mongering.

[jusarrived]

As usual sitting on the fence and honestly all these guys should just stay out and keep their opinion to themselves