Unreal expectations from Indian fans

[Real McCoy]

Maybe those in the cricket threads should calm down. Too much expectation leads to disappointment. I'm glad we didnt get flogged 4-0 and managed to win a test in MCG that too after the disastrous 36 ao. There is also too many opinions on cricketers that I found to be unfair.

1. Expecting Puajara to score quickly is one of them. We all know how this approach works well for him. he had been successful with this strategy for a while now and last tour is testament to this. And the knives are out already asking him to be sacked. maybe we have been pampered with the fab 4 times to expect such greatness from our current batsmen. Sehwag played aggressively even if the situation merited caution because he had the fab 4 coming after him. Pujara is criticized because he plays defensively allowing other batsmen to play freely. Our batting failed due to some accurate bowling who took away the key areas where Pujara scores heavily. Even Rohit has a sub 50 SR here. Only Pant and to a lesser extent Gill were able to score because of the trust they had that Pujara will stay for a long time. Considering this was a road, it shouldn't have mattered if the SR was low because he can increase it when the wickets are going down. today he got a good ball to dismiss him.

2. Saini - everyone wants him to hit the ground running. Siraj did it at the MCG but why Saini is not doing in SCG. probably because its flat. People want a cummins type of bowler that doesnt exist.

3. Rahane - He has been ordinary sometimes but he is one of the players that can score in overseas conditions. Also a good captain to come out with a clear slate at the MCG and won the match.

4. Pant - Pant hit a century here last time. So he dropped some catches. it happens. pant in his two innings so far has shifted momentum towards India more than his scores suggest. Momentum today shifted to Aus when he got hit in the arm. While he was there, he was able to handle the new ball pretty well. even some aussies in their forum have suggested so.

5. Rohit - dont rate him as an opener in away tests but he used the flat conditions to his advantage and looked composed from ball one. would have scored big if not for the loose shot played and the amazing catch by hazelwood

6. Ashwin's oversmartness and fielding/running - He has always been like this. It works sometime and doesnt some other time. He had Smith's number in the first two tests and was a key bowler over our no.1 tormentor. He can't maintain it all the time especially in the graveyard for finger spinners and Smith is bound to score some time or later. His fielding and running between the wickets is well known. Its a bane of Indian cricket for a while now that test specialists some times let go in the field. Today both him and Rohit dived and saved some runs. That's more than what is usually expected from them. 

7. Aus bowlers - We always trash our players but have to credit the aussie bowlers for the relentless attack, no freebies and good fielding.

 

Indian team is what it is. We don't have the batting quality as before and its no time to introduce a bunch of youngsters with no senior to guide them. Youngsters should be introduced one by one not at the same time. We are not that bad a team to revamp the entire team and start fresh like early Allan Border led teams. They had a legitimate issue of Kerry Packer taking their key players. Plus our bowling stocks are at an all time high. That's why we are still playing despite losing 3 main bowlers and even managed to win a test. It is sad to see the result being played out but have to be realistic in our expectations and also credit the opponent for playing well. Here's me hoping for a better 4th day for us Not that confident though

[goose]

Serious question - have we ever won two overseas tests in a row?

[neel roy]

1 minute ago, goose said:

Serious question - have we ever won two overseas tests in a row?

I think 1986 against england

[Real McCoy]

4 minutes ago, neel roy said:

I think 1986 against england

2011 v WI also I think not sure

[neel roy]

Just now, Real McCoy said:

2011 v WI also I think not sure

I meant SENA. Against windies i guess we did in 2019

[zen]

The issue is that Ind is an inconsistent team .... It does not play all 5 days well in tests (has been an issue since ages) - conditions at home help it to mask/overcome some of the inconsistencies 

 

[Frustrated]

12 minutes ago, goose said:

Serious question - have we ever won two overseas tests in a row?

Yes, we hv.   In srilanka and Windies.   But never in SENA.

[express bowling]

@Real McCoy

 

Agree with some points but some things are / were doable.

 

1.  Not bunch the consolidators together. ( Pujara - Rahane - Vihari at 3-4-5 )  I had written about this in another thread.  Get Pujara to open. He comes in to bat by the 1st to 4th over in most overseas tests anyway. So, he knows how to play the new ball.

 

Get in Pant at 5 or 4 based on who is batting at the other end. Mix and match the stroke players and consolidators.

 

1. Gill

2. Pujara

3. Rohit

4. Rahane

5. Pant

6. Vihari / Mayank

7. Jaddu

 

This line up won't make the team lose batting momentum for long.

 

 

2. We should have debuted both Siraj and Saini by rotation against weak teams in 2018 and 2019 in tests. This would have made them more ready and the TM would also have known where they stand regarding playing at the top level. 

 

Saini will never be a Bumrah or Cummins  ... but a bit more experience could have made him like Umesh 2.0 of 2018 onwards, which is still better than Saini 1.0.

 

 

 

3. Stop picking home track bullies ( batsmen and pacers )  in tests in India. Try to go for all condition players. 

 

We will have a better team when we play tests in SENA.

 

 

 

4. Stop giving undue importance to seniority while picking teams. If only one slot is available then Rohit will always replace Mayank ... Rahane will always replace Vihari ... Umesh will always replace Saini irrespective of form. Can't have a good team this way. 

 

 

 

5. Don't be happy with an odd test win and a lost test series in SENA. Need to learn sustaining intensity.

 

Why did our bowlers give up today ?  Our batsmen lack ability but our bowlers are absolute top class.

 

 

Edited January 9, 2021 by express bowling

[Gollum]

True that, we are also missing so many first choice players. Remove Smith, Warner, Lyon, Cummins, Hazlewood from Aus team and they will struggle against some of our Ranji sides in Indian conditions. 

[Number]

Australian ATG team won series in India in 2004 since then they haven't won a test match in India.

This Indian team has already exceeded expectations in Aus.

If Kohli Rahane Pujara Ashwin Jaddu Bumrah manage to win a test series in NZ or Eng or SA they are worthy successors of Fab 5+ Kumble Harbhajan Zaheer generation.

[nitinbwj]

No Shami, Umesh , Lolhi , Ishant and now Jadeja. BC Kya khaak jeetenge 

[putrevus]

Everyone wants to all condition players, who exactly are those all condition players in Indian history? We might have produced less than 10 players both bowlers and batsmen combined in Indian cricket whom we could classify as all condition players.

 

On this current playing eleven only Bumrah is that guy. People wanted to get rid of Kohli the captain. Rahane in less than two tests has already overworked Bumrah to death, now he will overwork Siraj to death.Let that guy Rahane contribute in more than one test in series first as batsman.

 

Rahane had five legimate bowlers at his disposal but he has no idea of rotating the bowlers.

 

 

Edited January 9, 2021 by putrevus

[rtmohanlal]

not much expectations and hence not much dis appointment....

[Real McCoy]

7 minutes ago, express bowling said:

@Real McCoy

 

Agree with some points but some things are / were doable.

 

1.  Not bunch the consolidators together. ( Pujara - Rahane - Vihari at 3-4-5 )  I had written about this in another thread.  Get Pujara to open. He comes in to bat by the 1st to 4th over in most overseas tests anyway. So, he knows how to play the new ball.

 

Get in Pant at 5 or 4 based on who is batting at the other end. Mix and match the stroke players and consolidators.

 

1. Gill

2. Pujara

3. Rohit

4. Rahane

5. Pant

6. Vihari / Mayank

7. Jaddu

 

This line up won't make the team lose batting momentum for long.

 

 

2. We should have debuted both Siraj and Saini by rotation against weak teams in 2018 and 2019 in tests. This would have made them more ready and the TM would also have known where they stand regarding playing at the top level. 

 

Saini will never be a Bumrah or Cummins  ... but a bit more experience could have made him like Umesh 2.0 of 2018 onwards, which is still better than Saini 1.0.

 

 

 

3. Stop picking home track bullies ( batsmen and pacers )  in tests in India. Try to go for all condition players. 

 

We will have a better team when we play tests in SENA.

 

 

 

4. Stop giving undue importance to seniority while picking teams. If only one slot is available then Rohit will always replace Mayank ... Rahane will always replace Vihari ... Umesh will always replace Saini irrespective of form. Can't have a good team this way. 

 

 

 

5. Don't be happy with an odd test win and a lost test series in SENA. Need to learn sustaining intensity.

 

Why did our bowlers give up today ?

 

 

you are preaching to the choir when you said Puajra should open. I always had the opinion that RD should have opened and SRT to come in at 3 when they were playing - two of our best - one defensive and one attacking. That would open 4,5,6 to strokemakers like VVS. Imagine having three VVS next to RD and SRT. That would be awesome. So it would make sense that Puj should open and not come in at 3 when a solid opening like yesterday happened. Like you, I also agree with most of your post but disagree with some.

you are going into "unreal expectations" territory when you said HTBs should not be picked. Most of our players are HTBs to some extent even pujara. Players like Ishant and Jadeja took time to emerge as bowlers to be counted upon. jadeja especially was a HTB until recently. And the A tours help only so much because the pitches are not test quality pitches and not play against test quality players and it lasts only 3 or 4 days. Its only for India hopefuls against other teams hopefulls like an A tour with Gill and Shaw against Neser and others and Puckovski and Harris against Tyagi and Prasidh

Agree with senior culture imposing on the team negatively but there has to be some seniors who can give mentorship to the noobs. there has to be some balance. Also agree with winning series over winning one test and have bewda beat his chest and talk to the media that "we can win abraod too" in a slurred tone

[Real McCoy]

27 minutes ago, Gollum said:

True that, we are also missing so many first choice players. Remove Smith, Warner, Lyon, Cummins, Hazlewood from Aus team and they will struggle against some of our Ranji sides in Indian conditions. 

agree but we shouldn't use that as a cop out. Both us and the opponents can only play with the players that they have. It applies to both India and Australia. To those who think we couldnt beat with Smith and Warner, I give them this We just beat a team with Smith at the MCG without most of our frontline bowlers and a gun bat who also happens to be our captain. We also dismissed Warner cheaply in both innings in his fav ground where he HTBs other teams

[express bowling]

19 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

you are preaching to the choir when you said Puajra should open. I always had the opinion that RD should have opened and SRT to come in at 3 when they were playing - two of our best - one defensive and one attacking. That would open 4,5,6 to strokemakers like VVS. Imagine having three VVS next to RD and SRT. That would be awesome. So it would make sense that Puj should open and not come in at 3 when a solid opening like yesterday happened. Like you, I also agree with most of your post but disagree with some.

you are going into "unreal expectations" territory when you said HTBs should not be picked. Most of our players are HTBs to some extent even pujara. Players like Ishant and Jadeja took time to emerge as bowlers to be counted upon. jadeja especially was a HTB until recently. And the A tours help only so much because the pitches are not test quality pitches and not play against test quality players and it lasts only 3 or 4 days. Its only for India hopefuls against other teams hopefulls like an A tour with Gill and Shaw against Neser and others and Puckovski and Harris against Tyagi and Prasidh

Agree with senior culture imposing on the team negatively but there has to be some seniors who can give mentorship to the noobs. there has to be some balance. Also agree with winning series over winning one test and have bewda beat his chest and talk to the media that "we can win abraod too" in a slurred tone

 

 

I am against HTB batsmen and pacers.

 

We should pick the best spinners for home conditions.  Because they will win us home tests.

 

 

 

[neel roy]

The thing is a bit positivity in this test would have got us 300 and they would have played at least 70 overs before giving us a target. Now they ll declare after 45 overs.. 12 overs before tea

Edited January 9, 2021 by neel roy

[express bowling]

Just now, neel roy said:

The thing is a bit positivity in thid test would have got us 300 and they would have played at least 70 overs before giving us a target. Now they ll declare after 45 overs.. 12 overs before tea

 

 

Exactly  !

[Rasgulla]

[putrevus]

6 minutes ago, neel roy said:

The thing is a bit positivity in this test would have got us 300 and they would have played at least 70 overs before giving us a target. Now they ll declare after 45 overs.. 12 overs before tea

Pujara did not do anything against norm.That is his MO. It just happened on last tour he happened to score higher scores. If I am not wrong he has just 2 100s before last tour in SENA . One in SA and one in England.Last series was an anomaly rather than norm. Rahane rarely contributes in more than one test per series.

 

It is easy to say they needed to be positive but who is that batsman who needed to be positive.

Edited January 9, 2021 by putrevus