Summary of reasons for India's early exit (T20 WC 2021)

[zen]

Probably my last thread on this T20 WC. Would want to end with a summary of reasons for India's early exit: 

 

• In-ability to prepare for challenges: If you see the warm-up games, the champion Aus decided to bat first versus Ind. Ind, a team focused on short term interests, fielded first when it won the toss against Eng. Big deal? Yes, it shows the mindset of wanting to take the easier path even in inconsequential matches. 
• Top order (#1-3): As they say - trend is your best friend. Trend has shown us that KL-Rohit-Kohli fail in key pressure games. Rinse and repeat. 
• Impact players: Ideally, you want your impact players to be in early, playing against 4th-5th-6th bowlers so they can look to bat the other team out.  In Ind's case, Pant-SDP (Hardik) could have been slotted at #3-4. If they make an impact, great. If they get out, you still have your other batsmen to bat till the 20th over. One cannot have a Jadeja walking in to maintain L-R combination v Pak above SDP, who only got to come in around the 19th over. Against NZ, the same issue with Rohit-Kohli at #3-4 digging up a hole for Ind. 
• Bowling. A no show in the first two games. Did not look pumped up at all. Lacked both pace options and those that can nail yorkers. 

 

Looking at the schedule, it was evident that if India lost its first two games, it would practically be out - Link. Talking about theoretical chances was more of a media propaganda to keep Indians interested in the world cup. India knew that its first two games were against two teams with a good bowling attack and that it could be batting first. Maybe it was overconfident or too casual to realize the threat. 

 

Many teams came to the world cup with new plans. For e.g. Aus played Marsh at 3, with Smith doing floater's duties. Packing as many multi skilled players in the 11 as it could given its resources. Most of us knew that India was going to play the old fashioned cricket. Champions team do not show such mindset. One can observe the killer spirit in the body language. In India's case, it appeared the team quit too easily in the first two games.  As is the case in India, the stable is usually bolted after the horses escape. 

 

My 2 cents! 

Edited November 14, 2021 by zen

[Try_Ball]

Poor Middle and Lower Order batsman 

Unfit players like Pandya in the team spelled disaster for this team.  

When you are aiming for a Asif Ali / Shoaib Malik  - sixes as needed and van bowl 3-4 overs if needed but you end up getting players like Pandya who score 10-20 odd runs with SR of 100-120 and do not bowl - you are destined to lose

 

Pant/Pandya/Jadeja - combined failure of the lower and middle order was disastrous and major changes needed

Top order needs to start stabilizing itself as well

 

Poor Selection  -  Bhuvi , Pandya in the playing 11 

Yuzi , Siraj not being selected ,  Ashwin / Chahar / Ishan not getting enough games to play.

Edited November 14, 2021 by Try_Ball

[mishra]

Kohli captaincy and Toss

[Adamant]

@zen

Talking specifically about t20 world cups. 

Kohli has excelled in all three knockouts he has played in the 14 and 16 world cup, and also a virtual quarterfinal vs Aus. 

Why do you keep on lying? 

OTOH your SDP failed in the two pressure matches he played in this tourney. 

Instead of showing regional bias and that too for Gujarat (lol) think of Indian cricket team for once. 

[Adamant]

1 hour ago, mishra said:

Kohli captaincy and Toss

2016 t20 world cup? 

Dhoni captaincy and toss? 

 

Kohli should be blamed for this debacle but the IPL shooperstars who have achieved nothing in their career and had a chance to do that failed spectacularly and they should also be criticized. 

[zen]

17 minutes ago, Adamant said:

OTOH your SDP failed in the two pressure matches he played in this tourney. 

 

I don't think SDP failed if he is coming in around the 19th over in one game and having to steady the ship at 48/4 and then at 70/5 as the last recognized batsman in the other 

 

 

Quote

 

Instead of showing regional bias and that too for Gujarat (lol) think of Indian cricket team for once. 

 

 

Sorry, why that too for lol Gujarat?    

 

 

I have no major biases expect uniqueness of players: 

 

 

 

 

 

Many people have joined the bandwagon of other players ... Since a special player like SDP still gets hate, I support him even more. Once he plays at the right positions and performs to his potential, I will support another talented player. Anyone can support a Bumrah! It is the talented players who need some more time to reach their potential that I continue support. 

 

Edited November 14, 2021 by zen

[Adamant]

1 hour ago, zen said:

As they say - trend is your best friend. Trend has shown us that KL-Rohit-Kohli fail in key pressure games. Rinse and repeat. 

This does not hold true for t20 world cups, look at Kohli's record in t20 knockouts, I am quite sure you know about this but still trying to paint them as chokers and Pandya as a clutch player. 

[cricketfan28]

I think boys can be excused against Pakistan, Kohli and  pant did okay, Sarma and KL got unplayable deliveries.

VS NZ  we expected them to bounce back, that's when everyone failed.  But whether they score 160 or 110,they would have still lost that match given what we saw in the tournament.

[G_B_]

2 hours ago, mishra said:

Kohli captaincy and Toss

This...

 

 

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

1. Top order failed.
2. Middle order failed.
3. Bowlers failed.

[vvvslaxman]

3 hours ago, cricketfan28 said:

I think boys can be excused against Pakistan, Kohli and  pant did okay, Sarma and KL got unplayable deliveries.

VS NZ  we expected them to bounce back, that's when everyone failed.  But whether they score 160 or 110,they would have still lost that match given what we saw in the tournament.

71 ball with no four. Pandya faced 19 of them. He bullied pie checkers like naveen kumar against Afghanistan acts like he redeemed himself. He should not bat above 7. 

[AuxiliA]

6 hours ago, zen said:

 

• In-ability to prepare for challenges: If you see the warm-up games, the champion Aus decided to bat first versus Ind. Ind, a team focused on short term interests, fielded first when it won the toss against Eng. Big deal? Yes, it shows the mindset of wanting to take the easier path even in inconsequential matches.

 

Good point. Not only that they barely give lower middle order batsmen like Pandya, Jadeja, even Pant much batting time in bilaterals. They never ever try pinch hitters. Same old stubborn batting approach. 

 

That was the biggest reason for our WC 19 loss. The top 3 used to make centuries for fun back then, so much so that the middle order barely got enough match time. But when the time came to stand up in the WC SF they failed spectacularly (5 for 3).

[sarcastic]

12 minutes ago, AuxiliA said:

 

Good point. Not only that they barely give lower middle order batsmen like Pandya, Jadeja, even Pant much batting time in bilaterals. They never ever try pinch hitters. Same old stubborn batting approach. 

 

That was the biggest reason for our WC 19 loss. The top 3 used to make centuries for fun back then, so much so that the middle order barely got enough match time. But when the time came to stand up in the WC SF they failed spectacularly (5 for 3).

Middle order preparedness should not be dependent on whether top order gives them batting practice or not.

Even during the time of Sachin/Sehwag/Ganguly at the top, when they failed the middle order stepped up like in WC 2011 and many more instances in 2000's.

I invite some like @vvvslaxman or @The Realist who can explain this point well.

Edited November 15, 2021 by sarcastic

[deathmonger]

1 hour ago, sarcastic said:

Middle order preparedness should not be dependent on whether top order gives them batting practice or not.

Even during the time of Sachin/Sehwag/Ganguly at the top, when they failed the middle order stepped up like in WC 2011 and many more instances in 2000's.

I invite some like @vvvslaxman or @The Realist who can explain this point well.

yeah cause that top order was never as dominant so dhoni/yuvraj/raina had good experience. due to these guys the middle order never gets to play.

[AuxiliA]

1 hour ago, sarcastic said:

Middle order preparedness should not be dependent on whether top order gives them batting practice or not.

Even during the time of Sachin/Sehwag/Ganguly at the top, when they failed the middle order stepped up like in WC 2011 and many more instances in 2000's.

I invite some like @vvvslaxman or @The Realist who can explain this point well.

 

The Indian middle order in 2011 was highly experienced and was in middle of their prime. Dhoni started of at no 3-4. They were given enough time to settle. 

 

In the lead up to the 19WC we didn't do anything to establish our MO. Rayudu, who was invested in for 2 yrs was dropped just before the WC, Pant wasn't even selected at first. DK was suddenly brought out of his wilderness on the basis of a few T20 cameos. Promising youngsters like Iyer weren't even given a chance. We were basically top 3 or bust. 

[vvvslaxman]

India has played 62 games in the last 4 years

Rohit 48

Rohit+Rahul 34

Rohit+Rahul+Kohli 21

 

They didn't take part in all the matches. Most of the time when they tour they use the test team for ODI and T20 if possible instead of sending second squad.

 

On an average middle order gets to face 10 to 20 deliveries from all countries. Some guys like KKD/Russell on an average got 9 deliveries to face.  The problem is bigger for India is for two reasons. One is we have a very long tail in all the formats. The other one is our middle order is not good enough.  Most of these international players hone their skills in franchise cricket. Not International T20s. When India toured who did we face? Sams, Sean Abbott, Andrew Tye. Not Cummins/STarc/Hazlewood.   Real learning place is IPL. Right now Pant/Pandya/SKy all belong to cameo categories. Not someone who can dig deep and resurrect while maintaining acceleration. We cannot have 3 cameo innings players in the middle order.  I would rather Trust Shreyas Iyer who takes the onus plays like top order. 

 Most recently against England India was 48/4 in 9.6 overs.  Pandu was pottering around for 4 overs with  sub 100 strike rate. Iyer made 67 in 48 balls while wickets were falling around. Proper bowling attack.   Rashid, Archer, Wood, Jordan, STokes, Curran. Against Bangaldesh India was scracthing around at 94/3.  Iyer made 62 in 33 balls. Same way when were chasing a 200 plus at Auckland  he provided the impetus by scoring 58 in 29 balls whle Manish was scratching around.  We are expecting a batsman that is closer to specialist batsman. Not cameo kings. That too unreliable cameo kings which is what we have. Given the length of our tail  cameo kings make our line up even more shaky. ANy top order collapse we will reach a point of no return.  You can give them 100 balls to practice it doesn't matter.

Jadeja is good only against some type of balls. preferably half vollies on the middle and leg. 

 

 

 

 

[mani sha]

Toss . Kohli . Panauti .

Three reasons only . 
add b kumar . Add ipl hype . 
top 5 reasons 

 

add shastri 

 

top 6 reasons . 
 

get rid of kohli and shastri - done 

b kumar - not done 

things will improve her on . We will reach needy wc finals . Of all the teams , india has had highest success in aussie of late . Kohli exit is a blessing . 
let the Dravidian era begin . 

[mishra]

9 hours ago, Adamant said:

2016 t20 world cup? 

Dhoni captaincy and toss? 

 

Kohli should be blamed for this debacle but the IPL shooperstars who have achieved nothing in their career and had a chance to do that failed spectacularly and they should also be criticized. 

If a team which is better on paper looses spectacularly and consistently, Captain and Coaches , Strategy and onfield decision are to be blamed. If a team which is not good on paper wins, its because of above. I am not saying that a team like Bangladesh will win because of above(A team is always limited by quality of its contingent) but Team like Newzealand making it to finals is beacuse of it.

 

So lets not confuse things

[New guy]

13 hours ago, Try_Ball said:

Poor Middle and Lower Order batsman 

Unfit players like Pandya in the team spelled disaster for this team.  

When you are aiming for a Asif Ali / Shoaib Malik  - sixes as needed and van bowl 3-4 overs if needed but you end up getting players like Pandya who score 10-20 odd runs with SR of 100-120 and do not bowl - you are destined to lose

 

Pant/Pandya/Jadeja - combined failure of the lower and middle order was disastrous and major changes needed

Top order needs to start stabilizing itself as well

 

Poor Selection  -  Bhuvi , Pandya in the playing 11 

Yuzi , Siraj not being selected ,  Ashwin / Chahar / Ishan not getting enough games to play.

Love how you keep blaming middle order and give pass to the experineced top order

 

Take a look at the world cup top XI scoreers and tell me how many lower order bats you see

 

 

 

Pant played 3 innings and in 2 scored 30 ball 39 and 13 ball 27 not out but he is a failure. However top 3 who failed EVERY single time is not to blame because they feasted on minnows later

 

Bhuvi, who bowled 3 overs in the entire series is to blame for the loss

 

And such an obvious agenda driven paid PR post is upvoted here. So how can you blame management or BCCI when fans thinking itself is rotten and designed to protect super stars over talented youngsters?

 

[zen]

8 hours ago, AuxiliA said:

 

Good point. Not only that they barely give lower middle order batsmen like Pandya, Jadeja, even Pant much batting time in bilaterals. They never ever try pinch hitters. Same old stubborn batting approach. 

 

That was the biggest reason for our WC 19 loss. The top 3 used to make centuries for fun back then, so much so that the middle order barely got enough match time. But when the time came to stand up in the WC SF they failed spectacularly (5 for 3).

If you see some of the teams that play positive cricket where there top 3 play bat aggressively and get out early too going for shots, the middle order is well prepared to handle even collapses better as they become more experienced in handling such situations. 

Edited November 15, 2021 by zen