Should ICC unban chucking and tampering to make PAK bowlers look talented once again?

[Grand_Design]

Pitches have been flat in Pakistan since inception. But Imran, Akram, Waqar, Akhtar were the kings of tampering and managed to hoop the ball . 

 

Recently though, you have the likes of Naseem Shah aka the new Waqar Younis struggling on pitches that don't offer much and looks like a docile, submissive,  defeated trundler. 

 

So, should ICC relax the rules for Pakistan to save the bowlers from such ignominious humiliations?

[Pollack]

Chucking should not be tolerated.

Tampering is a different. Bowlers find a way to Tampering despite cameras around. As long as you are not using sharp objects ir nails it must be fine.

[Nikhil_cric]

34 minutes ago, Pollack said:

Chucking should not be tolerated.

Tampering is a different. Bowlers find a way to Tampering despite cameras around. As long as you are not using sharp objects ir nails it must be fine.

I agree. But it's become harder to tamper with so much scrutiny from cameras etc. 

 

Besides, no other attack has looked as impotent as Pakistan's pace attack (except SL attack) since 2015 or so in tests and it's getting worse. 

 

Pakistani fans take pride in their fast bowling and this could be the death knell of Pakistan's test cricket if they realise that their fast bowlers are nothing more than meek, gun barrel straight trundlers 

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

Bottle caps, pitch tampering, ball biting we can add these too

[Austin 3:!6]

Is this serious thread?

[Sandeep99]

I agree.. Pakistan without tampering and chucking look absolutely impotent and inept... 

[R!TTER]

16 minutes ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

Is this serious thread?

Why not? Everybody knows boost tampering was the secret of their (bowling) energy 3-4 decades back 

[zen]

43 minutes ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

Is this serious thread?

The thread is trying to say that Pakistani pace bowlers in general were mostly successful due to “other” reasons. 
 

At the end of the day, one also has to note that India pacers do not even bowl much at home while relying on spinners to perform on tailored pitches. 

 

 

Edited December 1, 2022 by zen

[sandeep]

12 hours ago, zen said:

At the end of the day, one also has to note that India pacers do not even bowl much at home while relying on spinners to perform on tailored pitches. 

 

 

Please go check recent spells by Siraj, Umesh, and even Shami in Indian conditions.  

[Vilander]

Look at Umesh Yadav and Shami spells in India. How they rip new ones for several teams. There is a skill in that, and it can be learnt. 

[Stuge]

They should be allowed to chew .

[express bowling]

16 hours ago, zen said:

 
 

At the end of the day, one also has to note that India pacers do not even bowl much at home while relying on spinners to perform on tailored pitches. 
 

 

 

 

Shami, Bumrah, Umesh, Siraj and Srinath all have low or very low averages in tests in India.

 

Bumrah   15

Siraj         17

Shami      21

Umesh    25

Srinath    26.6 

 

Quicks, who can reverse the ball at pace, do really well on Indian pitches in test matches.

 

 

 

 

[tapandrun]

Has there been any test match post saliva ban where bowler have found considerable amt. of reverse..

 

Similar kind of allegation/hints were made after  Aus started losing post sandpaper-gate 

[express bowling]

23 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

Has there been any test match post saliva ban where bowler have found considerable amt. of reverse..

 

Similar kind of allegation/hints were made after  Aus started losing post sandpaper-gate 

 

We saw decent amount of reverse by Bumrah and Shami in the 2 tests vs SL in 2022.  

[zen]

6 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Shami, Bumrah, Umesh, Siraj and Srinath all have low or very low averages in tests in India.

 

Bumrah   15

Siraj         17

Shami      21

Umesh    25

Srinath    26.6 

 

Quicks, who can reverse the ball at pace, do really well on Indian pitches in test matches.

 

Those averages reflect being supported by spinners on certain pitches and bowling more on pitches where there is some help. Pak bowlers can reverse too. 
 

I doubt these guys will perform any better on pitches where Pak bowlers are being judged on. 

 

 

[sage]

 

[express bowling]

24 minutes ago, zen said:

Those averages reflect being supported by spinners on certain pitches and bowling more on pitches where there is some help. Pak bowlers can reverse too. 
 

I doubt these guys will perform any better on pitches where Pak bowlers are being judged on. 

 

 

 

Bumrah, Shami, Siraj, Umrsh and Srinath have or had all built their red ball games playing FC cricket and then test cricket on these pitches. It has been their priority on their part. 

 

Help of spinners play a part but there have been many memorable spells by these quicks on low and slow pitches.

 

While among the current Pakistani pacers, only Shaheen and Hassan Ali prioritize red ball cricket and have a game built for that purpose, whatever their quality.

 

This aspect is very important.

 

Top Indian pacers or any good pacer of any country will look less threatening on these pitches. That is true. But I doubt they will give away 504 runs in 75 overs in a test match. 

Edited December 2, 2022 by express bowling

[zen]

29 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Top Indian pacers or any good pacer of any country will look less threatening on these pitches. That is true. But I doubt they will give away 504 runs in 75 overs in a test match. 

Hard to predict if a team like Eng has its day on such pitches, which India is unlikely to dish out in general to help its conditions dependent spinners (Last time, I recall England in India being made to play on pitches where Axar was picking up loads of wickets after England beat India in the first test). 
 

Srinath would compete with Wasim, Waqar, and company, who are rated high for their skills. 

Edited December 2, 2022 by zen

[express bowling]

2 minutes ago, zen said:

Hard to predict when facing a team like Eng has its day on such pitches, which India is unlikely to even out in general to help its conditions dependent spinners. 
 

 

The current group of Indian test pacers of Bumrah, Shami, Siraj, Ishant and Umesh have done better than any other pacer group of any other country in the 2018 to 2021 period. They have performed in every country barring NZ. And this is because they can keep bowling in the right areas at good pace and some movement, throughout the day. 

 

While the current group of Pakistsni pacers have not performed anywhere barring odd cases here and there. And this is because most of their pacers lose steam after a few overs. 

 

When there is such gulf in overall performance and quality, it stands to reason that the better quality test attack is likely to do better in the current scenario too.

 

 

[zen]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

The current group of Indian test pacers of Bumrah, Shami, Siraj, Ishant and Umesh have done better than any other pacer group of any other country in the 2018 to 2021 period. They have performed in every country barring NZ. And this is because they can keep bowling in the right areas at good pace and some movement, throughout the day. 

 

While the current group of Pakistsni pacers have not performed anywhere barring odd cases here and there. And this is because most of their pacers lose steam after a few overs. 

 

When there is such gulf in overall performance and quality, it stands to reason that the better quality test attack is likely to do better in the current scenario too.

 

 

 

Difficult predict events such as a 30 odd all out by Ind in Adelaide. 

 

As a bowling unit, Eng ran through India here - https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/england-tour-of-india-2020-21-1243364/india-vs-england-1st-test-1243384/full-scorecard

 

Where most would have assumed that Ind would beat Eng based on whatever parameters. And then India had to rely on pitches that assisted spinners more. 
 

Now if Pak creates turners, its pacers would bowl in relatively limited spells and be “fresher” to not run out of steam often. 
 

PS talking about the current Pak-Eng test, Pak is not playing bowlers like Afridi, and now have bowled out Eng for 650 odd.

Edited December 2, 2022 by zen