Extreme limits of extra-ordinary underachievers and overachievers - how a 5 mil population country where cricket is the 3rd or 4th popular sport keeps shafting us in every major tournament

[rangeelaraja]

I feel gutted. 

 

For all the money, size and massive pool of super talented cricketers - we continue to get shafted by a country whose population is a small fraction of our cities and for whom cricket is their 3rd or 4th sport.

 

Feel like smashing rat's ugly face. Shameless pathetic excuse of captain and leader.

[Serpico]

money, population, passion, talent pool etc are all useless if you don't have a culture of accountability.

 

of course there are other nuances like developed post scarcity country vs poor country etc but lack of accountability is the biggest issue, I would say 

[Gollum]

NZ is one of the greatest sports nations out there. 

 

Look at Olympic medals per capita....India and other South Asian countries are at the other end of the spectrum. Number of reasons to explain our underperformance but not getting into that.

 

They are better than us in almost every damn sport.

 

Rank	Country	Gold	est. population	total gold /million pop
1	Finland	101	5,493,577	18.39
2	Hungary	175	9,823,000	17.82
3	Bahamas	6	378,040	15.87
4	Sweden	147	9,906,331	14.84
5	Norway	56	5,236,826	10.69
6	New Zealand	46	4,710,740	9.76
7	Grenada	1	103,328	9.68
8	Jamaica	23	2,723,246	8.45
9	Denmark	45	5,724,456	7.86
10	Bulgaria	51	7,153,784	7.13

[Ankit_sharma03]

why cant we accept loss ???

Its a spot one team will win, itna extreme conclusion kyun nikalana. They were much more use to these conditions and these conditions made them an equal team to us which wud havent been the case in 70% other conditions

[BacktoCricaddict]

2 minutes ago, Gollum said:

NZ is one of the greatest sports nations out there. 

 

Look at Olympic medals per capita....India and other South Asian countries are at the other end of the spectrum. Number of reasons to explain our underperformance but not getting into that.

 

They are better than us in almost every damn sport.

 

Rank	Country	Gold	est. population	total gold /million pop
1	Finland	101	5,493,577	18.39
2	Hungary	175	9,823,000	17.82
3	Bahamas	6	378,040	15.87
4	Sweden	147	9,906,331	14.84
5	Norway	56	5,236,826	10.69
6	New Zealand	46	4,710,740	9.76
7	Grenada	1	103,328	9.68
8	Jamaica	23	2,723,246	8.45
9	Denmark	45	5,724,456	7.86
10	Bulgaria	51	7,153,784	7.13

And I can digest that, no problem.  But can't digest it for cricket which is India's passion. We have got to have more talent oozing out of every state than they have in their own country.  We proved it in Australia that it can be done.  

[BacktoCricaddict]

10 minutes ago, Serpico said:

money, population, passion, talent pool etc are all useless if you don't have a culture of accountability.

 

of course there are other nuances like developed post scarcity country vs poor country etc but lack of accountability is the biggest issue, I would say 

At least for cricket, it is true.  Money and talent pool in cricket are not an issue.  Moreover, with "lesser-calibre" players, the team achieved more.  So, it has to be accountability.  

[Lord]

title too short.Is it about hot dogs?

[sandeep]

Reading too much into a single game, where conditions favored NZ, and so did the toss. 

 

Typical randi-rona for folks unable to enjoy the sport for what it is.  And just want to enjoy 'wins'.

[Serpico]

5 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Reading too much into a single game, where conditions favored NZ, and so did the toss. 

 

Typical randi-rona for folks unable to enjoy the sport for what it is.  And just want to enjoy 'wins'.

he's just observing a pattern, there's no randi rona. 

 

conditions favour one team in every game, there's no perfectly neutral conditions for any match 

[rangeelaraja]

7 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Reading too much into a single game, where conditions favored NZ, and so did the toss. 

 

Typical randi-rona for folks unable to enjoy the sport for what it is.  And just want to enjoy 'wins'.

 

 

Finals in most major sports are 1 game. It is that one game that separates the great teams from the not great ones.

[Lone Wolf]

Gutted as a fan..  Losing to Australia or England is different but to freakin Kiwis again & again shows only that something is seriously wrong. 

 

Credit to Kiwis though & salute to their sporting culture.  These guys will probably won't make into their front pages of newspapers...  But well done. 

Edited June 23, 2021 by Lone Wolf

[sandeep]

31 minutes ago, Serpico said:

conditions favour one team in every game, there's no perfectly neutral conditions for any match 

of course, but you have to be blind not to admit that if the WTC test is played in SA, Australia, West Indies or Asia, this NZ team would not be able to perform like this.  

[Serpico]

Just now, sandeep said:

of course, but you have to be blind not to admit that if the WTC test is played in SA, Australia, West Indies or Asia, this NZ team would not be able to perform like this.  

yeah so what? first of all windies and south Africa both have swing friendly conditions so this is not even accurate. 

 

but even if its true, it is still helping our team more than nz so they are also not "neutral", are they? we knew where the venue is two years ago. we played and lost last two icc tournaments in the same country. so if we still didn't prepare for it, whose fault is it? 

[sage]

1 hour ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

And I can digest that, no problem.  But can't digest it for cricket which is India's passion. We have got to have more talent oozing out of every state than they have in their own country.  We proved it in Australia that it can be done.  

i've mentioned it before but we have a similar problem that england has with football. when its your main sport that the country lives of.. selection and players get warped by media, pressure, crowd, fanbases etc and you don't end up picking your best team + performing your best.

[sandeep]

2 minutes ago, Serpico said:

yeah so what? first of all windies and south Africa both have swing friendly conditions so this is not even accurate. 

 

Windies and S-Africa both offer friendly conditions to pace, but in SA, NZ's swing merchants would not be as effective as they are here.  And in Windies, there would be grip on offer to our spinners.  Anyway all of this academic hair-splitting.

 

Quote

but even if its true, it is still helping our team more than nz so they are also not "neutral", are they?

 

Point is that the conditions were almost completely home-like for NZ here - its the equivalent of India winning the WTC against a non-Asian team in Sri Lanka or Bangladesh.  

 

Quote

we knew where the venue is two years ago. we played and lost last two icc tournaments in the same country. so if we still didn't prepare for it, whose fault is it? 

 

Agree 100% on this part of it.

[Mariyam]

1 hour ago, Gollum said:

NZ is one of the greatest sports nations out there. 

 

Look at Olympic medals per capita....India and other South Asian countries are at the other end of the spectrum. Number of reasons to explain our underperformance but not getting into that.

 

They are better than us in almost every damn sport.

 

Rank	Country	Gold	est. population	total gold /million pop
1	Finland	101	5,493,577	18.39
2	Hungary	175	9,823,000	17.82
3	Bahamas	6	378,040	15.87
4	Sweden	147	9,906,331	14.84
5	Norway	56	5,236,826	10.69
6	New Zealand	46	4,710,740	9.76
7	Grenada	1	103,328	9.68
8	Jamaica	23	2,723,246	8.45
9	Denmark	45	5,724,456	7.86
10	Bulgaria	51	7,153,784	7.13

The Olympics are the legacy of the Western imperialists.

The games suit them. And their societies.

 

If the Olympics had kabaddi, luka chuppi, teen patti, sitting on your butt and arguing for hours, antakshari etc we would be among the top nations.

 

Flawed analysis.

Edited June 23, 2021 by Mariyam

[Serpico]

5 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Point is that the conditions were almost completely home-like for NZ here - its the equivalent of India winning the WTC against a non-Asian team in Sri Lanka or Bangladesh.  

and that wtc win will still count for us right. why mention conditions when there are two home world cups coming up? will you say they won't matter even if we win? 

[sandeep]

3 minutes ago, Serpico said:

and that wtc win will still count for us right. why mention conditions when there are two home world cups coming up? will you say they won't matter even if we win? 

I do not expect India to win either WC under current leadership - and have said this for more than a year.  

[Frustrated]

1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

why cant we accept loss ???

Its a spot one team will win, itna extreme conclusion kyun nikalana. They were much more use to these conditions and these conditions made them an equal team to us which wud havent been the case in 70% other conditions

Bhai.  Match me haar jeet lagi rehti he.   Koi problem nahi.  Lekin bar bar icc tournaments harna kuch alag ishara karta he.  Wo bhi ek hi Kaptan ke captaincy me. 

[Vilander]

1 hour ago, rangeelaraja said:

I feel gutted. 

 

For all the money, size and massive pool of super talented cricketers - we continue to get shafted by a country whose population is a small fraction of our cities and for whom cricket is their 3rd or 4th sport.

 

Feel like smashing rat's ugly face. Shameless pathetic excuse of captain and leader.

Its a game played by 11 people per side.  As a matter of fact having too much population and too many domestic sides is a negative for a good national side in terms of exposure.  

 

Anyways better side won so no hard feelings. NZ deserving champions.