Kohli’s contribution in building the Indian test bowling attack?

[maniac]

I can’t remember Indian bowling attack and reserves being this strong in any era. quality talent started coming in regularly  since early-mid 2000’s. This point of time  is a peak of Indian bowling  but do you think if Kohli has anything to with this? 

 

Look at our fast bowling for example, everything that has to be said has been said but it is not just about the quality but we also seem to have quantity. 
 

We lost 2 prime fast bowlers at the beginning of the series. We were  still able to  field a competent 3 pace attack in the first test having about 300+ Wickets among themselves .
 

Our main bowler than got injured but still fielded an attack strong enough to take 20 Wickets in the 2nd test where we lost another main fast bowler.
 

Even though our fast bowling looks relatively much weaker now, a line up of Bumrah,Siraj and Saini doesn’t look totally hopleless at least on paper.

 

We have the top 2 spinners in the world and Kuldeep as a backup and few other leg spinners who can potentially do well in this format.

 

I mean don’t think any team has

this collection of wicket taking bowlers.

 

Should Kohli get any credit for this or is this a case of him being at the right place at the time?

 

I know he gets stick  for strategies and man management or captaincy temperament but I think he should get some credit here.

Edited December 31, 2020 by maniac

[zen]

If Kohli gets the stick for failures, he should get a pat on his back for good work as well 

[urbestfriend]

Dont know why only Kohli must get the credit but not the entire team management and more so, IPL which brings the fast bowlers to limelight and give them an opportunity to showcase their mettle.

[Trichromatic]

Indian pace attack hasn't just magically improved in 4-5 years. 

 

Test match bowlers come through the system. Indian domestic set up has been grooming them fir 2 decades now and we are getting max results atm. 

 

We had fast bowlers ar U 19 level for first time. It had nothing to do with international senior team and captain. 

 

From 90s, we moved onto good pacers who had their moments - Pathan, RP Singh, Sreesanth, Zak, Nehra. Lit of lefties and bowlers who could bowl 140s easily. They couldn't maintain quality for long time, but it was improvement over 90s.

 

Next upgrade started with Shami, and batch of Ishant, Umesh, Bhuvi and Bumrah took to next level. 

 

Credit goes to those coaches, BCCI and the system. 

[maniac]

1 minute ago, Trichromatic said:

Indian pace attack hasn't just magically improved in 4-5 years. 

 

Test match bowlers come through the system. Indian domestic set up has been grooming them fir 2 decades now and we are getting max results atm. 

 

We had fast bowlers ar U 19 level for first time. It had nothing to do with international senior team and captain. 

 

From 90s, we moved onto good pacers who had their moments - Pathan, RP Singh, Sreesanth, Zak, Nehra. Lit of lefties and bowlers who could bowl 140s easily. They couldn't maintain quality for long time, but it was improvement over 90s.

 

Next upgrade started with Shami, and batch of Ishant, Umesh, Bhuvi and Bumrah took to next level. 

 

Credit goes to those coaches, BCCI and the system. 

That system was there during Dhoni’s time too, it wasn’t like Dhoni was a captain a  decade ago.

[Cricketics]

Bumrah was no where in the scene for  test matches. He was labeled as t20 specialist not long ago. Yes, his selection in the test side was asked for by few on ICF but overall Bumrah was still a t20 bowler until few years ago. No expert or commentators would even talk about Bumrah on air or about his selection in test cricket, barring people on ICf or social media. Kohli and TM pushed for his selection and the rest is history. That alone selection and backing of Umesh Yadav where our seamers even dominated our spinners at home created sort of a fast bowling culture and influencedthe competition among many. 
 

His love for fast bowling has been good for Indian cricket and hence people wanted/want him to lead test. His non selection or showing less patience with youngsters are reasons which disappoint many though, especially that stems from his oor ODI selections.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lone Wolf]

Lol at Kohli building fast bowlers.  Shami Bhuvi were all there in 2014-15 time period..  As they became experienced they improved.  Aaron played in SL in 2015 & then was gone literally even lord Stuart Binny was picked by lolli in a freakin test. 

Bumrah was not developed by Kohli..  Ishant was already seasoned..  Worked on himself & came back. 

What a Myth that Kohli developed fast bowlers lol..  Credit to the system & coaches.  

 

 

[Adamant]

The attitude is what matters. 

Dhoni was reliant on spin, Kohli realised that if he has to win test matches away from home he needs a good fast bowling attack. 

The kind of support thay Ishant, Shami got is exemplary. Ishant himself revealed in an interview that the fast bowlers are given much more freedom and importance in Kohlis setup. 

 

Encouraging the fast bowlers is what kohli has done. 

A small example, i read on one away tour that Virat Kohli asked bcci to specially book first class tickets for pacers. 

 

Kohli has changed the fast bowling culture of India and this will remain his biggest contribution to Indian cricket. 

 

Another example, no one advocated selecting Bumrah for away series in SouthAfrica, even if you read thread on ICF lot of posters were against it. 

He showed confidence and rest is history. 

[Adamant]

2 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Lol at Kohli building fast bowlers.  Shami Bhuvi were all there in 2014-15 time period..  As they became experienced they improved.  Aaron played in SL in 2015 & then was gone literally even lord Stuart Binny was picked by lolli in a freakin test. 

Bumrah was not developed by Kohli..  Ishant was already seasoned..  Worked on himself & came back. 

What a Myth that Kohli developed fast bowlers lol..  Credit to the system & coaches.  

 

 

Ishant himself has said in an interview that under Kohli pacers are given more importance and freedom than under Dhoni. 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

LOL

[express bowling]

In test cricket, Kohli has definitely stressed on pacers who combine pace with accuracy  ... and maintain fitness for this purpose. Pacers who can hit the deck hard and bowl nasty bouncers when the ball stops moving.

 

But he has not done the same in ODIs. He has repeatedly benched Shami in crucial matches. And not introduced any new pacers who combine pace with accuracy.

 

The biggest requirement for building a quality pace attack ( in tests and ODIs ) is not allowing trundlers to seep in. Some of them may do well for a season ... due to the novelty factor ...  but they rarely do well over a period of time.

 

We have done this in tests till now. We have not done it in ODIs.

[Lone Wolf]

5 minutes ago, Adamant said:

Ishant himself has said in an interview that under Kohli pacers are given more importance and freedom than under Dhoni. 

 

Lol Ishant himself is responsible for not stepping up..  Otherwise why would budda Zaheer play in SAF & NZ in 2014.  Shami was the only guy who looked like picking wickets in these tours. 

Ishant had serious issues with his bowling & thank goodness he improved. 

Baaki Interviews are only there to please Lord lolli & TM. 

 

 

 

[maniac]

6 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

LOL

whats your view?

[velu]

 

[velu]

1 minute ago, MultiB48 said:

i see a lot of his gifs ,what's his name

 

vaigai puyal vadivel

[maniac]

One more guy who might be a controversial name for getting credit is Duncan Fletcher.
 

There is a pattern here, after and during his stint with England, they started getting 140-145+  bowlers regularly Instead of traditional English type county seamers. Even Anderson and Flintoff upped their  pace. He backed guys like Harmison.

 

He also had a fascination for allrounders a big reason due to which Giles was played over Swann for so many years. Evolution of Flintoff, guys like Bresnan   etc coming into the system and look at their allrounders now.

 

Similarly during Fletcher’s stint we started playing Umesh,Ishant and Aaron all capable of bowling 150 ks and at times looked threatening and faster than even Australia even though they were wayward.

 

Bhuvi,Ashwin and Jadeja all flourished under him and evolved. India started looking at guys like Binny etc who fulfilled some utility but that led us to Pandya and more guys are getting noticed like Dube etc so we might luck out eventually.

 

He was a guy who worked in the background and also he took all the blame away from Dhoni so May be we ignore his contributions

[Forever Indian]

1 hour ago, maniac said:

I can’t remember Indian bowling attack and reserves being this strong in any era. quality talent started coming in regularly  since early-mid 2000’s. This point of time  is a peak of Indian bowling  but do you think if Kohli has anything to with this? 

 

Look at our fast bowling for example, everything that has to be said has been said but it is not just about the quality but we also seem to have quantity. 
 

We lost 2 prime fast bowlers at the beginning of the series. We were  still able to  field a competent 3 pace attack in the first test having about 300+ Wickets among themselves .
 

Our main bowler than got injured but still fielded an attack strong enough to take 20 Wickets in the 2nd test where we lost another main fast bowler.
 

Even though our fast bowling looks relatively much weaker now, a line up of Bumrah,Siraj and Saini doesn’t look totally hopleless at least on paper.

 

We have the top 2 spinners in the world and Kuldeep as a backup and few other leg spinners who can potentially do well in this format.

 

I mean don’t think any team has

this collection of wicket taking bowlers.

 

Should Kohli get any credit for this or is this a case of him being at the right place at the time?

 

I know he gets stick  for strategies and man management or captaincy temperament but I think he should get some credit here.

 

Let's do an analysis of what Kohli has done with these bowlers:

 

Bumrah - Will give him Credit for playing him in Tests but it's not because of his acumen but because he does not understand players can have strengths in particular formats (more details in Siraj and Saini section)

Siraj - This guy has been picking wickets in bunch in longer format in domestics and A tours but was played by Kohli in T20s saying he will be groomed in shorter format first - he failed in T20s as expected and was booted out - He is still to play a Test under Kohli despite being in radar for 3 or so years

Saini - Same as Siraj, was picking wickets in longer format but played in ODIs and averages 75 in ODIs now - He is still to play a Test under Kohli despite being in radar for 3 or so years

Umesh - Always plays one or two tests at start of series in SENA and then booted when he gets spanked and the cycle repeats again

Varun Aaron - Was booted out after having a bad series

Shami and Ishant - Have been in team for years and were developed mainly by Dhoni and they have developed further due to their experience

 

So, tell me which of these has he developed in Tests other than playing Bumrah in Tests (by chance because he cannot see across formats)?

 

[nevada]

5 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Lol Ishant himself is responsible for not stepping up..  Otherwise why would budda Zaheer play in SAF & NZ in 2014.  Shami was the only guy who looked like picking wickets in these tours. 

Ishant had serious issues with his bowling & thank goodness he improved. 

Baaki Interviews are only there to please Lord lolli & TM. 

 

 

 

Ishanth improved because of Gillespie's coaching in county cricket. But he can't say that, he has to praise brat or else incur his wrath. Even in home tests, Kohli is scared to debut a new pace bowler. He wants readymade solutions and doesn't believe in betting on unproven talent. 

[Forever Indian]

19 minutes ago, express bowling said:

In test cricket, Kohli has definitely stressed on pacers who combine pace with accuracy  ... and maintain fitness for this purpose. Pacers who can hit the deck hard and bowl nasty bouncers when the ball stops moving.

 

But he has not done the same in ODIs. He has repeatedly benched Shami in crucial matches. And not introduced any new pacers who combine pace with accuracy.

 

The biggest requirement for building a quality pace attack ( in tests and ODIs ) is not allowing trundlers to seep in. Some of them may do well for a season ... due to the novelty factor ...  but they rarely do well over a period of time.

 

We have done this in tests till now. We have not done it in ODIs.

What about playing Siraj and Saini in T20s and ODIs although they have been performing in longer format mainly in domestics and A tours? Both are yet to play a Test under Kohli.

 

Also, have a look at my previous post and let me know your thoughts. Just because he does PR saying he likes Fast bowlers doesn't mean he know how to develop them

[Forever Indian]

8 minutes ago, nevada said:

Ishanth improved because of Gillespie's coaching in county cricket. But he can't say that, he has to praise brat or else incur his wrath. Even in home tests, Kohli is scared to debut a new pace bowler. He wants readymade solutions and doesn't believe in betting on unproven talent. 

This. He wants readymade players.